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The Coming Enshittification of Public Libraries

• shortrounddev2 3y ago
  idk if he's been to a library recently, but they're already shit. They've become homeless shelters
• cyclecount 3y ago
  Like so many nice things, it's a wonder that they even exist at all in the US. Nothing like a library could be built today. The country has become so corrupt and the only solutions that anyone seems to believe could ever work are free market services that commoditize every part of life. The enshittification of the entire country will probably be complete in the next 20 years, as even the most basic infrastructure like roads crumbles, never mind nice things like libraries or trains or clean drinking water.
  • armitron 3y ago
    “The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.” He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.” “I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.” In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip. “You discover I’m right,” the door said. It sounded smug. From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt’s money-gulping door. “I’ll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out. Joe Chip said, “I’ve never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it.” ― Philip K. Dick, Ubik
    • nwoli 3y ago
      Smart door handle entrepreneurs mouths start to water at the thought of a subscription fee like this
      • deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      • NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
        New library slogan: "Share And Enjoy"
        • Karellen 3y ago
          Go stick your head in a pig (h/t Douglas Adams)
    • jackcviers3 3y ago
      With smart lock services requiring hosting and registration and ip-block and cloud IOT expenses, I'm surprised that this isn't happening already to be honest. Also that per token issue fees aren't being assessed by open id or sso providers. They could especially game the system by decreasing the ttl of tokens to smaller durations, and by instituting load-based pricing .
  • keiferski 3y ago
    Well, widespread public libraries mostly exist in the US because of private entities like the Carnegie Library, so I don’t think it’s really that simple. Prior to Carnegie, most libraries were subscription based.
    • flir 3y ago
      He donated to build a few in Europe, too (my local when I was growing up). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Carnegie_libraries_in_Europe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Carnegie_libraries_in_... Although they were probably a drop in the ocean, in the UK at least.
      • Anthony-G 3y ago
        There are a lot of Carnegie-funded libraries in the Dublin area. All of the libraries that I’m familiar with are beautiful buildings and stand out architecturally within their locality. A local historian recently gave a talk about how the Carnegie Foundation funded the building of public libraries in the early 20th century: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku-jU4I0hZ8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku-jU4I0hZ8
  • memefrog 3y ago
    Many libraries in the US come from the hypercapitalist era of robber barons. They predate the word "capitalism". They predate the idea that there could even exist something other than capitalism. People generally prefer free market solutions to problems because commons solutions like public libraries only work when there is sufficient social cohesion. Libraries work if people respect them. They do not work if people treat them like homeless shelters. Public libraries will disappear if their management continues to be dominated by far-left ideologues who prioritise being "inclusive" over having a safe, enjoyable and quiet environment.
    • NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
      Libraries are a valuable resource to the homeless and those who have nowhere else to go. If such people are respectful and treat the library as a library, then nobody will begrudge them an hour's nap or their refuge from midday heat while they read books or use a computer. Homeless people can even sign up for library cards and use them, almost as if they were real patrons. Of course it becomes known that a library doesn't mind the patronage of the homeless and disenfranchised, then people begin to abuse the hospitality. People try to shower and shave and brush their teeth in the restrooms. People drag in half a shopping cart's worth of bags and personal belongings, and camp out with a pillow and blanket. People deface or steal books, DVDs, and other materials. People have mental health crises in front of the other staff and patrons. Of course these disruptions are not the sole purview of the homeless. But they cause security to be tightened, and big signs that prohibit lots of stuff are posted, and the collection dwindles to whatever nobody wanted to steal. Man, I've really felt the pinch there. COVID-19 did libraries a favor in this regard, because they had a plausible excuse to flush anyone and everyone out of the building and off the premises, and do a great reset of the whole situation.
    • n6h6 3y ago
      Capitalism is a relatively recent invention, so no. It's disappointing that there are people who think that "far-left ideologues" have anything to do with the decline of public libraries.
      • 3y ago
  • Vinnl 3y ago
    It'd be interesting to run a survey in the US, asking people who are in favour of public libraries in general: "If public libraries had never existed, would you support their creation today?" Like, not just "Do you support continued funding of public libraries", or even "Do you think public libraries could be introduced today", but an actual reality check of how much their actions align with their actual preferences. I wouldn't be surprised if people would actually admit to hypothetically opposing something they are in favour of in practice.
  • justin66 3y ago
    > Nothing like a library could be built today. The country has become so corrupt and the only solutions that anyone seems to believe could ever work are free market services that commoditize every part of life. People do vote for levies to pay for libraries, and libraries are still built. The places with the best libraries willingly pay a lot for them.
  • deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  • carlosjobim 3y ago
    > Nothing like a library could be built today. The best and largest libraries in the history of the world are being built and expanded right now on the internet, with free and unlimited access for everybody.
• rdl 3y ago
  Coming? This seems like it happened already in every place I've visited. We don't even have public libraries here in Puerto Rico, but in SF, Seattle, etc. they are largely...not targeted at people looking to read/borrow books. I'd be interested in what libraries are like in Japan since their first sale copyright doctrine is totally different from the US and most of the rest of the world.
  • keiferski 3y ago
    Yes, I thought similar things. Libraries stopped being great for readers a decade+ ago. I think it’s less from nefarious corporate actors and more from the fact that reading culture has either shifted to more advanced platforms or evaporated entirely.
    • merpnderp 3y ago
      My library is across the street from a half-way house, and now it's just filled with methheads transitioning back to their normal scams. When I'm looking for some place to work or read and be comfortable in my surroundings, it's the last place I think of going.
      • giraffe_lady 3y ago
        It's funny I used to be in and out of homelessness and on and off bad addictions for years and I spent a lot of time in libraries. I spent a lot of effort telling myself people didn't really think things like this about me, it was just my own shame and insecurity and negativity, people don't really even think of other people that much. Now I get to be on HN and see every day that no, my worst beliefs were true, this really is how you saw us.
        • merpnderp 3y ago
          Oh heck yeah, the scam artists, and petty thieves all of whom will do anything for their next fix, are unshockingly looked down upon. What the hell, did you think people who supposed to feel sorry for the person stealing from them, stealing the hours of their life they spent earning those things?
• Arch-TK 3y ago
  I am certain things can get enshittified regardless of capitalism. Blaming enshittification on capitalism is lazy.
  • thebooktocome 3y ago
    The author blames it primarily on a single venture capital group, KRR. In fact the article doesn’t mention “capitalism” the economic system at all; only “venture capitalism” and “vampire capitalism”.
    • pnutjam 3y ago
      Yeah, KRR is bad, but they are just a cog in the machinery of crapitalism.
    • brodouevencode 3y ago
      > But there’s another threat to libraries looming that I haven’t seen anyone else talking about: capitalist enshittification.
    • Arch-TK 3y ago
      "In fact the article doesn’t mention “capitalism” the economic system at all;" "...capitalist enshittification." "...this particular capitalist bait-and-switch playbook..." "...little socialist oases in the capitalist desert hellscape of twenty-first century America..." I think you have to be willfully blind to not spot that the author is blaming "capitalism" the economic system for this. The fact that the author then goes on to single out "vampire capitalism", "venture capitalism" and KRR is really irrelevant in light of all this.
• ds0 3y ago
  While I think we've all settled on Cory Doctorow's concept, I really wish it wasn't called "enshittification". It's hard to take the phenomenon seriously when I sound like I'm just being edgy saying it aloud. There's something to keeping the term as a vulgar word, in that PR people working for companies actively engaging in it can't find a way to turn it around and own the definition, but "enshittification" could still use a little rebrand.
  • bqmjjx0kac 3y ago
    Crappetizing?
    • bombcar 3y ago
      crappetbagging slumping into the melt reversion to the mean and nasty californication
      • hgsgm 3y ago
        Silicontemptuous Valuedestruction?
    • krapp 3y ago
      It doesn't need its own word, it isn't a novel concept. It's literally just a description of the way capitalism works.
      • lickmygiggle 3y ago
        CIDaaS - Capitalism Induced Decay as a Service
      • thesuitonym 3y ago
        The problem is that people think that's a good thing.
    • runamuck 3y ago
      crappening
• sneak 3y ago
  If you believe in free lending libraries, you also must necessarily believe in piracy. They're logically the same thing. Time-shifting is a false meme to manufacture blame, just like identity theft. Read books for free. It's fine. Give them to your friends. It's also fine. Sidestep all this nonsense. Stop giving money to organizations that ship DRM unless you want more shitty DRM.
  • lc9er 3y ago
    Except libraries pay for their books, and those books cannot be copied and distributed in an unlimited manner. Artist deserve to be compensated for their work.
    • candiodari 3y ago
      The problem with that is that after 6 months artists invariably choose (through economic necessity, not choice) to deny everyone access to those books forever, which is then enforced through copyright and is just a great loss to everyone.
      • deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
  • Karellen 3y ago
    Lending libraries don't create new copies of a work. Copyright is about the right to make copies. It's right there in the name. Piracy creates new copies. Lending an existing copy for which someone has paid the copy-right holder, does not.
  • supertrope 3y ago
    Libraries take pains to follow copyright and teach their community members how to legally enjoy works.
    • sneak 3y ago
      Only because they have a return address. The idea that reading a book for free in one context is "legal" and reading the same book for free in another context is "illegal" is simply legal fiction invented by congress to prop up an industry. It's not a law of nature and it's not even logically consistent. You are free to ignore bad laws. Read books for free. It's fine. It's what libraries are for, and it's what the internet is for. The idea of "copies" is irrelevant. If 100 people in parallel all have a file of book on their tablet simultaneously and read it for free or 100 people all serially check out the same single physical instance from a lending library and read it for free the effect (and amount paid to the copyright holder) are precisely the same.
• vel0city 3y ago
  This whole blog post is misunderstanding after misunderstanding it's almost hilarious. Starting off with the very first premise: that you need to install an app. Libby is available as a web app, so that first big point the author is making just factually incorrect. They didn't need to install the app. So instantly the author here loses a massive amount of credibility to me. Then, it's not like this whole "deep search" and "notify me" tag is hard to find, and no you don't need to make.it yourself, and no you don't need to study the help articles to understand how it works. The only part I might say is tricky is you need to click the filter button to get to the advanced search settings where there's a big button that says "deep search" and explains what that means. Then for results not in your library there's a dedicated notify me tag button which when tapped explains how it works. I didn't have to go to the help area at all to get a detailed explanation of how stuff worked, and I got to it with obviously interactable UI elements.
  • resolutebat 3y ago
    You are thoroughly missing the point, although, to be fair, the author obfuscates it with the rant about shitty UI. The actual enshittification here is that readers used to be able to tell libraries what they wanted for free, and now this data is apparently an Advantage Plus(tm) premium feature that libraries need to pay for, so OverDrive can make more money.
    • vel0city 3y ago
      Yeah but I can't really trust the rest of their deep analysis when they didn't even know the extremely basic fact libbyapp.com exists. Like, if they're missing that extremely basic thing, how can I trust they're not also missing big parts of the rest of the story? If I write a blog post with deep analysis about NASA but start off with a rant about how they faked the moon landing and the moon is made of cheese you probably wouldn't trust the rest of my writing right?
      • mcdonje 3y ago
        They missed one thing that's mostly irrelevant to their point, so I can't trust anything they say, even when they back it up with expert commentary!
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  I used to spend a lot of time in libraries when I was homeless, and I owe a large part of my safety and shelter to libraries. I read many books back then, like a lot of Larry Niven, and all the Harry Potter novels. I haunted academic libraries and public libraries alike. I used the computers, I watched music videos, I played MUDs and checked my email. Then, when I got set up with a home, I stopped going to libraries so much, and my card expired. I went back just a couple of years ago, and by that time, my personal situation had changed in a few other ways. For one, I have a good Android mobile device. I also have a little SanDisk Clip Jam MP3 player. I was browsing the library's music collection, and I guess it was in the app, Libby or OverDrive or whatever they offer. And I went up to the tech support desk and I asked if they had any DRM-free music that I could load on my MP3 player. And the tech support lady said that if it didn't have DRM, they couldn't take it back when my loan period expired. And I said "oh, right." So I browsed the books on Libby and I may or may not have ventured to install the app, but I could tell at that time that it was an odious way to treat library patrons. To tell us that we had to load some commercial app on our device to get eBooks, rather than compatibility with some existing, popular eReader at least, or just give us the ePub or PDF. But I suppose that that market space has been ceded to the online Internet Archive type places, now. My father makes great use of Hathi Trust and he has repeatedly recommended it to me. Personally, I don't care how old a book or work is. I subscribe to Sturgeon's Law, and so it's best to pick and choose from works that have withstood the test of time, you know, unless I want a book on Cybersecurity, or programming Python or something. So while I have renewed my library card, and I stay in good standing and I like the other kinds of stuff that is on offer at my public library, I will not be playing footsie with Libby, and I guess currently that the best way to use my library is a backup Site B for my WFH, when my apartment is unavailable for some reason.
  • robertlagrant 3y ago
    > To tell us that we had to load some commercial app on our device to get eBooks, rather than compatibility with some existing, popular eReader at least I don't understand this - isn't a popular eReader also commercial? If you had to log into Kindle to get the book, would that be better?
• gruez 3y ago
  >I don’t know what KKR’s exact game plan is, although gouging more money from libraries for a reduced feature-set is clearly part of it. I am certainly suspicious of the fact that they appear to be setting up to gather more user data than ever while passing on less of that data to libraries, their ostensible customers. This doesn't make any sense. Keeping the feature around doesn't cost them any money, so it's unlikely they removed it as some sort of cost cutting strategy. The "sell customer data" angle is also unconvincing. They can do all of that while keeping the "recommend" feature. It's unclear how removing it, or forcing users to use the "notify" feature benefits them.
  • htrp 3y ago
    You want to make sure your base (free) features don't cover all of your user needs, otherwise they will never convert to the next tier of your product.
    • gruez 3y ago
      What's the next tier then? OverDrive premium for libraries? Getting people to buy books on OverDrive rather than lending them? Why would they go with them rather than audible?
      • ngai_aku 3y ago
        Straight from the article… > In order to get that information — which until May was freely available — *each library now has to pay a separate fee for an “Advantage” account. And if they then purchase a book and want to share it with their consortium members, as before? Well, that requires an “Advantage Plus”* account (and presumably a higher fee
• bob1029 3y ago
  I took a look at my local library and it doesn't have books anymore. Not sure what the end game is. This feels like more than capitalism to me. I feel intentionality in this suppression of knowledge and information. Once the free/cheap books and open web are gone, where will you seek the truth?
  • orangepurple 3y ago
    The end goal is for all information to come through government sanctioned media only. A small number of large corporations will be the executors of the will of the government in every part of the economy. The management of all major American corporations and the US government already belongs to the same tribe. Just research the background of the owners of the private equity firm that bought out the library system. They are part of a large family with a strong support system that the average person is not part of. Economic planning under capitalism occurs via decentralized, competitive, and voluntary decisions. The end state we are headed towards will be centralized, uncompetitive, and decisions will be involuntary as there will be no choice.
  • joe5150 3y ago
    Your library would very likely love to have both, but the cost of providing eBooks is such that for systems whose budgets are shrinking, it often does mean choosing one over the other. The decision to eliminate a print collection is unfortunate, but often better than hanging onto a decaying rack of books that only serves to signal to users that the library is outdated and obsolete too.
• throwawaysleep 3y ago
  The public library as a place to get reading material has less and less purpose anymore. When you can just download a book for free, or if you want to pay, have it shipped from Amazon, what is the point of the library? Between piracy and online ordering, there isn't really much space for libraries as places with books as they offer value only to exceptionally moral poor people. I used to be someone who hit my checkout limit from the library. I haven't been in over a decade now to checkout a book.
  • chiefalchemist 3y ago
    For some ppl $25 a hardcover is expensive. They might also not have the space or want to create the space. I buy books. I underline, etc. But I do know ppl who prefer the library, which is 100x better than not reading at all.
    • candiodari 3y ago
      I am like the author. Before 13 I had read the entire computer section, and maybe half of the math and physics sections. Plus the strips section, which was the only part of the library that very regularly got new stuff. I could not pay for those books with my allowance. I could not pay 1% of their price, and frankly it would have been several hundred dollars per month (because ... well, technical book prices). And this with it being a 70 minute bike ride to the library (I mean I just didn't return from school, which meant it was maybe 20 minutes, then returned in the evening). Libraries worked for me until perhaps high school, back then. Now they definitely wouldn't. Now there simply isn't any computer or math section anymore in the library. There's some leftover books but every month there's less. If you can't afford an ipad (ironically the only practical e-reader for zlib imho), you can't read books. Luckily an air will do, but still.
  • eitally 3y ago
    But on the flip side, I went just last week, with my whole family, and we picked out two large shopping bags of books. Libraries are amazing places for children, and their parents. As an aside, I have to also give kudos to my local school district, which has some kind of arrangement with the public library system to give library cards to all elementary students. This not only gives them lending privileges, but also the ability to take advantage of all of the other library system's partnerships and discounts. Libraries are still great, but it probably depends a lot on where you live, and what you expect from one.
• ttynttfn 3y ago
  Just pirate the books, seriously. It's called zlib
  • ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    lobrary is a temple of knowledge. Its where the public goes to learn, to actively read, and to meet each-other. Its a place of community. It has been vandalised
  • ttynttfn 3y ago
    I'm having a child soon, and I'm slowly building up a library of real & e-books for them. Their not bound to any specific hardware or crappy SASS. Publishers & other parties can't retrospectively censor them. They're mine forever. One of my favorite memories as a child is browsing through my parents bookshelves and picking something to read. I hate to think that's going to disappear.
    • foobarbecue 3y ago
      Building a physical bookshelf to display a collection of ebooks has been a dream of mine for a long time. Just waiting for e-ink displays to get larger and cheaper.
    • ac29 3y ago
      > One of my favorite memories as a child is browsing through my parents bookshelves and picking something to read. I hate to think that's going to disappear. I'm not sure that advocating for pirating books is going to help that. If you don't buy books and also refuse to use libraries, you're only accelerating the disappearance of books.
• getarofilter 3y ago
  [dead]
• mistermann 3y ago
  The author mentions talking to librarians on Mastadon, does anyone happen to know where large quantities of librarians might congregate online?
• LargeTomato 3y ago
  Coincidentally I have been working from a public library this week. The majority of patrons are homeless. Many are physically disabled. Some are mentally ill and yell at random at nothing. It's sad. I feel conflicted because I don't really want them near me but I understand they have no where else to go. I don't get how the library because a homeless shelter but it's probably not somewhere I'd take a child.
  • chasd00 3y ago
    my local library is the same, it's very large but right in downtown. Filled to teh brim with crazy people. When my family wants to go to the library we drive 45min to a suburb and it's a completely different experience. Night/day doesn't even begin describe the difference. People like to complain/rant about suburbs but they do have their perks.
  • sircastor 3y ago
    Libraries are a fairly unique kind of institution in society. It's community owned, so you're not going to throw someone out for not buying something. It's sheltered, and probably climate-controlled, so you're out of the elements. There's something to do (computers, books, activities). Unhoused people come to libraries because it's one of the last places that they're not being told to "get out". They want to be there probably for the same reason any of us do. Compared to a homeless shelter or a soup kitchen, that is mostly a room full of beds or tables, a library is a relief.
• prmoustache 3y ago
  The whole writing industry in general is exposed to enshittification. Most books selling well nowadays are "personnal development" title written by the writing equivalent to a snake oil salesman / charlatan. In the same way internet search is broken by affiliate links heavy, contentless websites looking for easy money, good books end up hidden behind all this huge wall of easy money personal development bullshit.
  • shortrounddev2 3y ago
    [flagged]
    • giraffe_lady 3y ago
      I've seen a good book maybe three times ever in one of those. I never took them simply because it was so rare.
• mellosouls 3y ago
  In the UK we have seen libraries falling like dominos in the "austerity" (post financial crash bank-welfare) era to pay for the failures of the bankers. Those that remain open are often turned into community hubs which while sounding nice on paper don't always sound nice in reality with screaming kids and zumba classes, etc; the end result of often being a rather rather un-library-like ambience. Shhhhh!
  • domh 3y ago
    My library is thankfully still pretty good, but it has been re-branded as a "Discovery Centre" whatever that means. Normally has a good selection of books, helpful staff and they even put on a regular schedule of kids nursery rhyme classes which are good fun for the little ones! The app however has been outsourced to "BorrowBox" (https://www.borrowbox.com/ https://www.borrowbox.com/) which is meh, but I can't exactly blame them for not wanting to create and maintain their own app.
• uwagar 3y ago
  im wondering why is it not just shittification but enshittification. shittification seems to have more power to me.
• jonawesomegreen 3y ago
  > Alternative platforms already exist: one promising place to start might be the Palace Project and the associated Palace Marketplace. It's great to see the Palace Project mentioned as an alternative in this post! I'm one of the developers working on Palace. The idea behind the project is to create a single app that aggregates all of a library's digital content and makes it readily available to library patrons. If anyone here is interested in it, all our code is open source: https://github.com/thepalaceproject https://github.com/thepalaceproject.
• Eumenes 3y ago
  Public libraries seem heavily romanticized. They aren't the places they once were. The big one in my local city is in an unsavory part of town, with homeless and drug addicts all over, creepy dudes looking at porn inside, with the lovely stench of body odor everywhere. Even the entrance is unnerving, with zombies sleeping on the steps. I wouldn't feel safe letting a child hang out there alone. Which is a major shame, because I spent many hours in libraries as a kid. This isn't hyperbole, just read through some recent google reviews of public libraries. These days, I'd rather browse the ebook catalog online and drive to a nice park or green space to read. I'm sure financial interests are somewhat to blame for the decline of the public library, but the other reasons seem more pressing atm.
  • ClumsyPilot 3y ago
    ye that seems lime you are placing national decline at the feel of a public library
    • Eumenes 3y ago
      i'd argue that the state of public spaces reflects the national status ... whether thats a park or the streets or whatever. i'm just saying that people will start to care less about these places if they're surrendered to anti social behavior.
  • shortrounddev2 3y ago
    Yeah there's a constant background hum of a feeling of danger when at the library. I wouldn't let my kid go to my city library alone. The suburb I grew up in still had a good, clean, safe place to sit and read. My wife and I used to sit there and do our homework together back when we were just dating.
  • FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    So if the area around a Library goes downhill, the Library should move? Libraries didn't cause the downfall of the area they are in. LOL. Why blame the library. I'm sure if the library started sweeping away the homeless, there would be just as much outcry at their callousness.
• Mattasher 3y ago
  The confusion between libraries, especially school libraries, not carrying certain books, and censorship or "book banning" is disingenuous and hyperbolic. All libraries curate, every single one. In particular, school and specialized libraries "censor" based on what is appropriate for their audience. My highschool library didn't carry any Chilton car repair manuals. I asked about that once because I had a rapidly decaying, hand-me-down Ford Pinto. The librarian laughed and suggested I was attending the wrong high school for those books. I am bothered by the trend towards fewer physical books and pushing people towards digital copies — there's no substitute for physical browsing as a discovery process.
  • FrustratedMonky 3y ago
    Sure. There is a need to curate. Because space is limited, every library can't be some billion square foot Library of Alexandria. Choices have to be made. Guess the argument is around who 'chooses' and 'what'. But I would say that not carrying 'Chilton' as an example of why they shouldn't, say, have 'To Call A Mockingbird', as also disingenuous.
    • nvahalik 3y ago
      Likewise, school libraries should not include books with explicit graphic examples of oral sex. The whole "To Kill a Mockingbird" has been a red herring. Nobody has banned books. They just want to remove books that do not have value... and they have.
      • constantly 3y ago
        They have removed them…by banning them.
      • _mgt8 3y ago
        https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/books/2022/06/29/banned-books-explained/7772046001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/books/2022/06/2... Has a list of banned books and some of the reasons. Elsewhere, although I couldn't find the article they categorized the different reasons, and scenarios such as "explicit graphic examples of oral sex" were not a thing. In that categorization there were some banned for sexual content, but it was a tiny tiny fraction, like a fraction of a percent. That sort of idea is commonly used as justification in the larger wedge of "protecting the children". But if you look at what is actually banned and the reasons (or even if the banned book has been read by the people banning at all), it's pretty clear that's not actually what this is about.
• Zetice 3y ago
  I signed up for ~5 libraries in the US that allow nonlocal registrations, and as a result my Libby account has access to an absurdly large selection of books. It’s super cool how I, person in the middle of the country, can check out a book from the Bronx public library, for a total cost of like $50/yr. How is that shitty, exactly?
• yaky 3y ago
  I worked at OverDrive. The stark contrast between the sugary-sweet facade of “helping the libraries and readers” and the ridiculous amounts of money the company makes from these same libraries is quite depressing. Much of their profits come from charging 30%+ on top of publishers’ prices (which are already high for libraries). This plays into their hand very well - publishers get the blame for prices, yet OverDrive still benefits from it. As for Libby’s bad UI - it was made by a single very opinionated person.
  • brodouevencode 3y ago
    > stark contrast between the sugary-sweet facade of “helping the libraries and readers” and the ridiculous amounts of money the company makes from these same libraries is quite depressing Is that Overdrive's fault? That's how the game is played. Why aren't more companies coming into this space if it's so lucrative?
    • helpfulmandrill 3y ago
      It doesn't matter if its overdrive's fault or not. If we don't like the direction of travel as a society, we need to find ways of countering this tendency. It isn't about labelling certain companies as evil, its about appropriately regulating companies in general.
      • brodouevencode 3y ago
        It's a small (but admittedly growing) minority that find this to be a problem. So even then, why begrudge anyone for offering a product or service that someone wanted at a price both parties considered fair? Users saw value in the service otherwise they wouldn't use them. Is there some sort of mandate that this type of service be used? (If Overdrive is breaking the law or defrauding customers then that's a separate issue.)
        • helpfulmandrill 3y ago
          > why begrudge anyone for offering a product or service that someone wanted at a price both parties considered fair? Because in the context of our quite dysfunctional laws around copyright, competition, DRM etc., this isn't a remotely adequate description of what's going on?
• freitzkriesler2 3y ago
  My heart goes out to the author's plight but am I the only one here who abjectly hates ebooks? I hate reading on an LCD. I'll settle on eInk but that's still settling. Give me a paper bound book anyday of the week. The only benefit an ebook has is for academic texts so I can quickly Ctrl+f for reference only. If I have to sit there and digest large quantities of text, I need a dead tree product. And it's a bloody shame that this method of print is dying.
  • carlosjobim 3y ago
    You can also purchase paper books if digital it's not good enough for you.
    • freitzkriesler2 3y ago
      Believe me, I do but there are a large amount of digital only products coming on the print world. Especially academic publishing.
      • carlosjobim 3y ago
        Maybe a print shop that turns any digital file you send them into a nice book and sends it to you would be a solution (if printing yourself doesn't get the results)? Do they exist? I know I use a service like this for having art canvases printed.
• mhb 3y ago
  This doesn't address the main point about charging the library for access to clients' recommendations, but, at least in my library's version of Overdrive, it is perfectly easy to recommend a book acquisition to my local library. On the page with the search results, there is a "Make a recommendation" link after the results which goes to a page which has all the expected fields - the book ISBN, my name, my home library, etc., etc. Maybe this is a better version than the author has seen? This is not using an app, which I don't know why you would want to do anyway.
  • cowsandmilk 3y ago
    What I see matches the author’s experience of being sent to Libby https://i.postimg.cc/nLVcq47w/Recommend-Books.png https://i.postimg.cc/nLVcq47w/Recommend-Books.png
    • mhb 3y ago
      Here's what I see: https://postimg.cc/CzcKc3GD https://postimg.cc/CzcKc3GD
• FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  This whole thread is pretty privileged, well off. Perhaps even 'elites'. Why do we need libraries? Just go online. Just use such and such open source app. Just use such and such free online source. -> There are too many homeless. Libraries don't 'feel' safe. If you are homeless how do you go on-line???? Let me clue you in. There are homeless people in libraries -> IN ORDER TO GO ONLINE. If you are homeless you don't have a computer. -> In todays world how do you get a job, to be come, 'un-homeless', without going ONLINE. -> How do you access any services without going ONLINE. You are homeless, you aren't driving to wherever you need to get to since you can't go to their website. Many physical locations have closed, 'just use their web-site'. How? -> SO, LIBRARIES HAVE A LOT OF HOMELESS PEOPLE USING LIBRARY COMPUTER'S, BECAUSE, WAIT FOR IT, 'THEY ARE HOMELESS'. THIS IS LITERALY THE ONLY OPTION FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.
• domh 3y ago
  Oh the irony of talking about enshittification whilst using Substack, which has 9 browser cookies, 4 javascript trackers (that I could count) and a frustratingly annoying modal that scrolls into view when you read a couple of paragraphs. Do these dark patterns actually work to monetise a blogger's content?
• brodouevencode 3y ago
  > capitalist enshittification Enshittification has less to do with capitalism, and more to do with users' willingness to put up with bad platforms and products (overused aphorism aside). People who attribute the decay of products to capitalism have a hard time looking over the wall outside of their sandbox to potentials they have yet to know or realize.
  • AlexandrB 3y ago
    I think it has everything to do with modern capitalism. The recent playbook is not "make a good product, sell it for more than you make", but more like "give away a product for free until you're a near monopoly, then start turning the screws on your customers". It's hard not to "put up with bad platforms and products" when your family, friends, and sometimes local city services are all using those platforms. And why are they using those platforms? Because they were initially attracted to the platform when it was good - i.e. before it started monetizing like crazy.
    • brodouevencode 3y ago
      For modern capitalism: capitalism as it has manifested, particularly recently, or probably more accurately _redefined_, has been the result of two driving factors: imperfect information (sometimes intentionally, sometimes due to complexity) and regulatory influences. Companies are able to put the screws to their customers because their customers do not know or fully understand the true costs of that gmail account or Prime membership. Even if the result is a monopoly (as defined by today's parlance) there's nothing stopping a competitor from coming in and offering a superior product. The only time this is problem is when the company can use regulations as barriers to entry. However this is often often mislabeled as market capture. Market capture cannot exist without regulatory capture in free markets. Then there's the inertia, which can be fully expected, and the company's disincentive to make breaking it easy. (GDPR has taken measures to address this but nothing similar exists in the US nation-wide but that's for data only.) The cost to move must be sufficiently low in order to break that inertia. In nature you'll see Pareto distributions all around, so it's almost as if this phenomenon is to be expected. But that doesn't mean it cannot be done. On a long enough timeline every product dies, and their lifespans are getting shorter and shorter.
• ostbender 3y ago
  You know how "basilica" meant a public building in Roman times, and the word came to mean "Christian building"? This is what's going to happen to libraries. In 50 years people will use it meaning "homeless shelter". Some older guy will explain that a long time ago, people used to go there to read physical books.
  • thaumasiotes 3y ago
    > You know how "basilica" meant a public building in Roman times This does not seem to have been the case; it meant a building in the shape of the Athenian Basilica.
• slackfan 3y ago
  Coming enshittification? Really? Then what the hell has been happening there for the past three decades if not enshittification.
• slackfan 3y ago
  Coming enshittification? Seriously? Where has the author been for the past three decades as public libraries have quite literally debased themselves to chase some modicum of appeal to some nebulous concept of modern generations instead of being what they were and should always remain - public resources for knowledge? Where has the author been when libraries started giving more of a crap about politics than the appeal of their own, er, library? When they killed the user experience of their catalogues in the move away from cards and terminals over to sql databases and crappy websites? The user experience of libraries has been going downhill for at least that long, if not longer.
  • joe5150 3y ago
    This is a genuinely bizarre point of view. Your nostalgia for the card catalog is shared by approximately nobody, least of all anyone whose job it would be to update and maintain it.
    • slackfan 3y ago
      I'm glad to see that the state of modern libraries has caused such illiteracy that you think that the point of the op was about card catalogues, ergo proving my original point.
      • joe5150 3y ago
        Well then I'm just confused about what you were talking about if "they killed the user experience of their catalogues in the move away from cards and terminals" doesn't refer to card catalogs....
• deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
• stinkytaco 3y ago
  I'm a librarian and while I sympathize with some of the arguments here, they are not arguments I can explain to the public. No one cares, and they shouldn't have to. They should be able to read everything from James Patterson to Thomas Piketty and not have to think about it and Libby is pretty good at enabling that. Alternative platform exist, but none of them are as good. Libby works on a lot of devices and Overdrive works with Amazon for people who own a Kindle. More people check out e-books and fewer check out physical books every year; the pubic wants what it wants and right or not Overdrive is the best way to get them that. So yeah, this could come crashing down. But more likely it will be like the transition of any format. Audiobooks have moved from tapes to CDs to digital in the span of about 15 years (in 2007 we still had lots of tape audiobooks) so we tossed the tapes and bought CDs because people got rid of their tape players and then did the same with CDs. We didn't dig in our heels and tell people tape players were good enough because it's not a luxury we have.
  • anonym29 3y ago
    Does a library have no duty of preservation or archival? Surely "what the public wants" cannot be the only driving factor, right? If the public wanted a building filled with nothing but adult magazines, or nothing but gardening books, would the library not have any choice but to fulfill those narrow desires at the expense of preserving great works of literary art?
    • jovial_cavalier 3y ago
      The library of congress has a duty of archival, but public libraries are there as a service to the public. So, what the public wants from them is actually the only driving factor.
    • joe5150 3y ago
      Public libraries have no such duty, no. Outside of the largest systems, most aren't fit to do this in a way that would materially achieve the goal of preserving anything, either in terms of space, equipment, or expertise. So generally speaking, providing "what the public wants" is the entire purpose of public libraries. Obviously librarians exercise a lot of discretion about what specifically to buy and make available in the library, but most have long since moved on from paternalistic notions of needing to provide access only to The Great Books.
• tptacek 3y ago
  This is a weird argument, because the libraries the author loved growing up didn't have any of these features in the first place.
  • tedunangst 3y ago
    Wait until you hear about what happened when you asked the librarian for an audiobook when I was a kid.
• disposition2 3y ago
  I appreciated the article. I'm probably an outlier, compared to others in this thread but I've recently started engaging more with my public library...both physically and digitally (using the apps / websites referenced in the article). Since Reddit and other social media companies did their thing, I started to use my time to read books and magazines...so I have really started to appreciate my public library as a source for gaining knowledge. Maybe I'm just in an unfortunate area of the US but I've noticed a lack of desire to support public libraries from 'leaders'. Recently, one of my county's council members suggested we should close public library locations as a means to save money to give more money to our police departments. Then the county mayor signed some memorandum saying that public libraries couldn't prevent people from bring loaded weapons in to the library. The latter is especially egregious considering his own office building forbids people from entering with loaded weapons.
  • UtopiaPunk 3y ago
    Good heavens, I'm sorry. Maybe you could ask the library how you can support them. The library system in my area seems to be a little healthier, but I know they depend on a community organization called "Friends of the [city name] Library." The library also holds little fundraisers from time-to-time. Mine is having a used book sale soon, for example. Libraries are amazing and nobody better try to hurt my library! :)
• Woppenheimer 3y ago
  [dead]
• standardly 3y ago
  I've already grown tired of this word, can we please move on and stop using it
  • basscomm 3y ago
    Sure. Do you have a better one? I'm open to suggestions
• taeric 3y ago
  This is why I get so annoyed with Doctorow's bitching about DRM and blaming "Big Tech." Until I see you can get DRM free things from libraries, I'm going to continue to think it is largely the copyright holders demanding these capabilities more so than I think it is a "big tech" company that almost certainly is bound by the same rules in working with the copyright owners. And honestly, I can see some of the reason for the DRM with good faith arguments on how it could completely erode a few markets. I don't necessarily agree with them, but I can't dismiss them out of hand, either. Anyway, reminds me that I need to support my libraries more.
• uwagar 3y ago
  wonder if cory considered the name goryshittification.
• cvccvroomvroom 3y ago
  The problems of "public-private partnerships" and use of corporate services by government utilities are the perverse incentives and gamification that arrises from greed. This is something a nonprofit or the government should run, not a corporation. Personally, I dislike all DRM virtual checkout bullshit and would rather have either a DRM-free ebook or the physical book. And if no DRM-free ebook exists, I consider buying a copy, scanning it, and releasing it online.
• RickJWagner 3y ago
  Non-starter. Libraries were never meant to be distributors of pornography. Especially to minors. There are plenty of outlets that provide free smut. Libraries should not contain materials that make people (especially women) feel attacked.
• jamesgill 3y ago
  The tedious ranting aside, this is way off base—and really about ebooks, not libraries. Public libraries are not monolithic; they’re operated differently depending on where they are, and all are trying to navigate ebooks—which, by the way, make up only a small fraction of patron demand. Libraries also serve many functions besides lending books. Public libraries are not being ‘enshittified’. They are more popular than ever (in the US, anyway), and ebooks are just another area where they’re navigating as best they can to offer patrons options.