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The options listed in the post are in my opinion exactly the ones that are exactly where they need to be. You want to change something about email - you go to t

• eviks 3y ago
  Why would you go to the Mail app if you don't use it??? But more importantly - you know you can have the same config in multiple places
  • isodev 3y ago
    Because it my mind at least, it’s not “the Mail app the product” but “the Mail app the activity”. It’s where you’d go to deal with email stuff (same applies to Calendar, Notes etc). I also use a different email client which comes with its own settings and that’s perfect, but to configure aspects of macOS I would first check the system provided app.
    • darreninthenet 3y ago
      Although this is a pain on the Mac because you have to create a dummy email account on the Mail app to be able to access any of the Mail apps settings
      • isodev 3y ago
        I think it opens your iCloud email by default.
        • darreninthenet 3y ago
          I don't have iCloud email, never have
          • pxc 3y ago
            People who are enamored of Apple's commitment to privacy on the one hand and esteemed UX on the other should really try using a Mac without an Apple account for a while.
      • detourdog 3y ago
        I don't understand this at all. I just went to systems settings. I searched for mai... I see the top hit is internet accounts. No other option internet account does describe mail so I click it. Up pops a bunch of choices as well as an add account button... What is the problem?
        • Liquid_Fire 3y ago
          The problem is not adding an account, but the fact that you can't open Mail to change the default email client without first configuring an email account in Mail... which you're not going to use because you were trying to switch to a different client in the first place!
          • detourdog 3y ago
            * To change settings in Mail, you must first have added an email account in Mail. If you don't want to do that, open the other email app that you want to use, then check its settings for a similar way to set the default email reader. This is at the bottom of this page. I still don't understand the problem. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201607 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201607
            • allarm 3y ago
              The problem has been explained very clearly in multiple comments, from different perspectives. You should try really really hard to not understand it at this point.
              • detourdog 3y ago
                I understand the issue now. I admit it took me longer than most people to understand. I hope you can admit that it is a very subtle issue. This is Apple babysitting their users. Apple needs to make sure that if their customer think that email is configured certain services are active. If an Apple customer has to make sure that each service is configured and it should be done by whatever email client the customer chooses. I disagree that the issue is severe. My assumption is that if one is setting up another email application the host operating system assuming they will provide the users of the alternative email client will also provide the mechanism for making it the default email client. That is not an unreasonable assumption for the host OS to make in my view. Email is a little different than browsers in at least 2 respects The biggest difference is that an established legal precedent that a host OS should provide a direct interface for selecting the default browser. The browser is also a single protocol application http:. The second is that an email client is multiple protocols. Do you want different default accounts depending if it's pop or imap? What about sending which accounts to do you to use and how. All of these options are in Mail.app and I have used many variations where default account might not cut it. I'm also willing to drop the whole thing because I bet at some point it won't be an issue if it is an issue.
    • pixelatedindex 3y ago
      To me this exemplifies the Mac way of doing things - to me if I want to change any setting that is system oriented or interacts with the system should go into System Preferences. Anything that tweaks how the app itself behaves should go under the Preferences of the app. But once you get used to the Apple way then you tend to not question these things as much.
      • pxc 3y ago
        > if I want to change any setting that is system oriented or interacts with the system should go into System Preferences Right. It is not the place of some random 'app' to administer my fucking system. I never, ever want my web browser or text editor or any other app to nag me with some intrusive pop-up about making it the default (in general or for some specific file type). From my perspective, the whole 'the app should handle it' attitude is another perverse adaptation to Apple neglecting to build competent power user features (in this case an administrative interface for default application associations), like the slew of apps in the ecosystem trying desperately to hack in decent window management, audio stream management, middle click via trackpad (lmfao), key remapping, etc., etc. The whole culture of the OS and its userbase just takes it for granted that huge classes of functionality will and even should be implemented by various 'apps' leveraging otherwise invisible, sometimes undocumented, and always breakage-prone OS behaviors.
        • CRConrad 3y ago
          > It is not the place of some random 'app' to administer my fucking system. I never, ever want my web browser or text editor or any other app to nag me with some intrusive pop-up about making it the default (in general or for some specific file type). Somewhat related: It's not the place of some random web site to administer my fucking system. I never, ever want any web site (looking at you, Google!) to nag me with some intrusive pop-up about installing their freaking browser just because I'm looking at their site.
          • FireBeyond 3y ago
            Does that apply to macOS wanting to make sure you want to use Chrome after you install it, and, 'just checking', not Safari?
  • quitit 3y ago
    1. Go to your preferred app. 2. Choose settings. 3. Set as default. You never once have to touch the apple apps. That setting is in the stock apps because these are set to the default on a blank install and by putting it here, you now have the option to change it when the app launches. HN tries too hard to invent drama.
    • eviks 3y ago
      1. Opened Vivaldi email 2. Opened settings 3. Didn't see the option I saw it when I touched the Mail.app, though So tell me again why complaining about the lack of the most basic thing: being able to configure your system via a dedicated system configuration app is "invented drama" Your explanation is also irrelevant as it doesn't address the issue why it's NOT in the system settings app, not why it's also in some other app
      • detourdog 3y ago
        Sounds like Vivaldi should work on their menu options.
        • Liquid_Fire 3y ago
          Or maybe Apple should add it to System Settings so that each and every app doesn't need to reinvent the wheel?
          • detourdog 3y ago
            This is such a nitpick as to be laughable. What is the big deal with whatever email application having a checkbox to make it default.
            • quitit 3y ago
              The whole thread is pedantic HN nonsense. They want to paint it like it's anti competitive or some dark pattern as if the consumer's choice to buy an apple computer was not influenced by the software that it comes with. For a lot of users changing email settings from the email app's settings makes the most sense, going to the system settings to change email isn't their first thought. In a similar thought, a mac user goes to the Finder to change default apps for file associations. So the thinking here by some users is that this should also be moved to the system settings? While I can see both sides of having it in one place or another. I also see the value of not putting the same setting in many different places. I also think there is value in simplifying the system preferences and that it's pedantic to argue that it must be one place or another.
• atoav 3y ago
  I use Thunderbird since 2003. So you expect me, someone who never has used another program, to know I have to start Mail in order to change the default to Thunderbird. That doesn't make any sense. If it is a setting that influences the system it should be a system setting not in some different program I might or might not use.
  • wichert 3y ago
    It's even worse: you can not access Mail's settings until you have configured an email account in Mail. Before that the settings options is greyed out.
    • pxc 3y ago
      The true meaning of 'it just works' in Apple-speak is 'no configuration is required to start using it'. Once you realize this, you also realize the following: In practice, 'it just works' often simply means 'you cannot configure it'. It's not a claim about simplicity, robustness, compatibility, etc. It's about taking a stance against configuration. This default mail app thing is just another case of it, on the less extreme side of the spectrum (you cannot configure it for now... first you have to do some stupid bullshit).
      • CRConrad 3y ago
        Just another example of how Apple's vaunted "ease of use" and (above all, blech!) "intuitive" is just fricking hype.
        • pxc 3y ago
          I do think that sometimes configurability can be a crutch or a hasty solution that developers resort to instead of thinking through their defaults or adding a bit of intelligence to their program's behavior. Apple definitely aims to avoid that pitfall with their 'just works' approach, and I think that's valid. But they take it too far for my tastes. And the lack of configurability makes those times when the UX is disagreeable or just plain wrong feel like an insult as well as a defect. > "intuitive" is just fricking hype I think I remember my dad once saying that there's only one intuitive user interface for mammals: the nipple. After that, you're learning, whether you admit it or not!
• tpmoney 3y ago
  Realistically a lot of these aren’t even system settings, they’re user settings and while system settings already exposes a lot of user settings, which are which are very poorly indicated. Beyond that, putting all these in system settings also means you wind up with a UI for every single type of app, which seems like it would get both unwieldy in short order and out of date. It makes me miss the old type and creator codes from classic Mac os, where you could individually specify preferred apps for opening specific file types, or files created by specific creator apps from the “get info” settings for the file. That mapping was stored globally, but could be changed from any relevant file’s info window and thus was extensible simply by the nature of just needing metadata from the file and a pointer to the app. I guess the big flaw with that for apps like mail, or calls is that you don’t really have a file. You’d need some interface for mapping uri schemes to apps, and good luck making that intuitive to the end user without either needing every app to expose that in its own settings, or some sort of central uri to human readable thing mapping, which again suffers from the unwieldy and out of date problems.