5 ms·

We live in different worlds. All engineers I know have Macs and the ones that don’t have Linux. The one guy on my team who uses windows is a constant problem

We live in different worlds. All engineers I know have Macs and the ones that don’t have Linux. The one guy on my team who uses windows is a constant problem as he has to find work arounds for every process we have/service we build.

redwall_hp 3y ago
Yep. I work in an entire office of engineers with only Macs (mostly ARM ones now) and I only have a Mac at home, besides a very old ThinkPad running Ubuntu. (Aside from FFXIV on MacOS, I've moved any gaming to PS5 and Switch.) I haven't actively used Windows since 2008. It's such an obnoxious OS to use, and I have never seen a Windows laptop with quality in the same zip code as a Mac. There's always a terrible touch pad, keyboard flex, plasticky trash fit and finish, mediocre display or something that just ruins the whole thing.
- selectodude 3y ago
  I just received a brand new Thinkpad from work. I don't even mind Windows but holy crap is that thing an absolute chore to use. I don't understand how this is still an issue while Apple has been putting out what amounts to the perfect laptop for like 10+ years now.
  - innocenat 3y ago
    On the other hand, I moved from MacBook to ThinkPad and holy crap it's just so much easier to use.
  - rejectfinite 3y ago
    >I don't even mind Windows but holy crap is that thing an absolute chore to use. What are your issues? I have a T490 that is a few years old and its great for my use. But I keep it docked in to a monitor and external mouse and keyboard 90% of the time.
- shortrounddev2 3y ago
  I like the aluminum bodies of macs, but I hate the flat keyboards. In my view, no laptop brand has had a good keyboard since the Thinkpad T420. In terms of build quality, apple laptops are pretty good, but I can't stand macOS and apple keeps fucking with their ports. My Inspiron 16 has a good glass screen and a pretty solid aluminum body. It's got all the ports I want (HDMI, USB-A 3.0, SD card reader, USB-C, and a 3.5mm headphone jack). Personally, the macbook pro my company issued me is one of my least favorite laptops I've ever used. I also had compatibility or performance problems with x86 based software when I got my first M1 macbook, I don't know if they're improved anything since then
- hota_mazi 3y ago
  > I haven't actively used Windows since 2008. It's such an obnoxious OS to use You might want to modernize your perception of it, holding on to 15 year old views is not a very smart move in the tech industry. Windows 10 and 11 are a joy to use, and to develop. I used a Mac for 15 years and switched to Windows to develop 5 years ago, and now macOS looks extremely antiquated and creaky for development.
  - Clamchop 3y ago
    Sure are a lot of extreme opinions on operating systems when they all seem pretty damned similar to me on the fundamentals. Development work strikes me as maybe the least distinguishing kind of task to compare them on. Very few hard choices to make unless you're developing for Mac or iOS.
  - redwall_hp 3y ago
    The operative word is "actively." I've certainly touched it since then and am just as unimpressed. Windows is a chore to use, and the best they've been able to manage to close the gap is shipping a glorified Linux virtual machine. I'll take Homebrew over that any day, and leave the VMs to Docker. The windows UI itself is an unpolished joke that's a hodgepodge of things that haven't been touched since Windows XP and half-baked new things, with sad window management (ironic) that lacks the perfection of Exposé and Spaces. To say nothing about laptop battery life, plugging in and removing multiple monitors several times a day. I would strongly consider not working somewhere if they didn't use Macs
shortrounddev2 3y ago
Every company I've worked for provided a macbook to us, and all my coworkers use a macbook. When I have the option, I pick PC. My last company gave me a choice between mac or PC, and I picked the thinkpad. My current company gave me a macbook pro, but I opted to use my personal Windows machines instead. I'm the guy who has to come up with a workaround, but it's never a problem for others. Usually I'm translating some bash command into powershell, which takes maybe 2 minutes. Everything else runs just fine, and I don't even need to use WSL. Windows is a perfectly viable development platform, if you give a shit about learning the differences between a unix-like environment and windows instead of just copping out and using WSL
oblak 3y ago
1. Build a pipeline with macOS in mind (because "All engineers I know have Macs") 2. Complain when the macOS-oriented process doesn't work for everyone.
- WeylandYutani 3y ago
  Apple is doing what people hated Microsoft for. It's amazing that a closed ecosystem is so welcomed by Apple fans. But I suppose man has always been tribal.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    Any closed ecosystem is annoying but I'm not going to complain very hard while their desktop market share is below 20-25%.
    - WeylandYutani 3y ago
      Desktop is becoming increasingly irrelevant. Most people don't even own one anymore. Apple is as close to WeChat as you can get in Western countries.
- ezfe 3y ago
  I work on a split team, Windows and macOS. We do straightforward Java work and most of the problems that we have are related to installing command-line software on Windows. Installing Postgres, Redis, etc. on Windows is wildly complicated compared to on macOS or Linux.
  - jimmaswell 3y ago
    Tried WSL?
    - edgyquant 3y ago
      Yes it’s a constant source of problems. Trying to live share and get any actual work done leads to constant crashes, simply git cloning and trying to docker-compose and yarn install is a convoluted mess etc. windows is just not friendly to the kind of development common these days.
parineum 3y ago
If your dev environment is meant to be multiplatform, it's sounds a lot more like the other developers are checking in things that don't work on anything but macs. Your Linux devs are just used to dealing with it.
- senttoschool 3y ago
  >If your dev environment is meant to be multiplatform Why would this be the case? Dev environments should concentrate on a single platform as much as possible.
hota_mazi 3y ago
You probably live in the US and parent lives... anywhere else in the world really.

redwall_hp 3y ago

Yep. I work in an entire office of engineers with only Macs (mostly ARM ones now) and I only have a Mac at home, besides a very old ThinkPad running Ubuntu. (Aside from FFXIV on MacOS, I've moved any gaming to PS5 and Switch.) I haven't actively used Windows since 2008. It's such an obnoxious OS to use, and I have never seen a Windows laptop with quality in the same zip code as a Mac. There's always a terrible touch pad, keyboard flex, plasticky trash fit and finish, mediocre display or something that just ruins the whole thing.

selectodude 3y ago
I just received a brand new Thinkpad from work. I don't even mind Windows but holy crap is that thing an absolute chore to use. I don't understand how this is still an issue while Apple has been putting out what amounts to the perfect laptop for like 10+ years now.
- innocenat 3y ago
  On the other hand, I moved from MacBook to ThinkPad and holy crap it's just so much easier to use.
- rejectfinite 3y ago
  >I don't even mind Windows but holy crap is that thing an absolute chore to use. What are your issues? I have a T490 that is a few years old and its great for my use. But I keep it docked in to a monitor and external mouse and keyboard 90% of the time.
shortrounddev2 3y ago
I like the aluminum bodies of macs, but I hate the flat keyboards. In my view, no laptop brand has had a good keyboard since the Thinkpad T420. In terms of build quality, apple laptops are pretty good, but I can't stand macOS and apple keeps fucking with their ports. My Inspiron 16 has a good glass screen and a pretty solid aluminum body. It's got all the ports I want (HDMI, USB-A 3.0, SD card reader, USB-C, and a 3.5mm headphone jack). Personally, the macbook pro my company issued me is one of my least favorite laptops I've ever used. I also had compatibility or performance problems with x86 based software when I got my first M1 macbook, I don't know if they're improved anything since then
hota_mazi 3y ago
> I haven't actively used Windows since 2008. It's such an obnoxious OS to use You might want to modernize your perception of it, holding on to 15 year old views is not a very smart move in the tech industry. Windows 10 and 11 are a joy to use, and to develop. I used a Mac for 15 years and switched to Windows to develop 5 years ago, and now macOS looks extremely antiquated and creaky for development.
- Clamchop 3y ago
  Sure are a lot of extreme opinions on operating systems when they all seem pretty damned similar to me on the fundamentals. Development work strikes me as maybe the least distinguishing kind of task to compare them on. Very few hard choices to make unless you're developing for Mac or iOS.
- redwall_hp 3y ago
  The operative word is "actively." I've certainly touched it since then and am just as unimpressed. Windows is a chore to use, and the best they've been able to manage to close the gap is shipping a glorified Linux virtual machine. I'll take Homebrew over that any day, and leave the VMs to Docker. The windows UI itself is an unpolished joke that's a hodgepodge of things that haven't been touched since Windows XP and half-baked new things, with sad window management (ironic) that lacks the perfection of Exposé and Spaces. To say nothing about laptop battery life, plugging in and removing multiple monitors several times a day. I would strongly consider not working somewhere if they didn't use Macs

shortrounddev2 3y ago

Every company I've worked for provided a macbook to us, and all my coworkers use a macbook. When I have the option, I pick PC. My last company gave me a choice between mac or PC, and I picked the thinkpad. My current company gave me a macbook pro, but I opted to use my personal Windows machines instead. I'm the guy who has to come up with a workaround, but it's never a problem for others. Usually I'm translating some bash command into powershell, which takes maybe 2 minutes. Everything else runs just fine, and I don't even need to use WSL. Windows is a perfectly viable development platform, if you give a shit about learning the differences between a unix-like environment and windows instead of just copping out and using WSL

oblak 3y ago

1. Build a pipeline with macOS in mind (because "All engineers I know have Macs") 2. Complain when the macOS-oriented process doesn't work for everyone.

WeylandYutani 3y ago
Apple is doing what people hated Microsoft for. It's amazing that a closed ecosystem is so welcomed by Apple fans. But I suppose man has always been tribal.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  Any closed ecosystem is annoying but I'm not going to complain very hard while their desktop market share is below 20-25%.
  - WeylandYutani 3y ago
    Desktop is becoming increasingly irrelevant. Most people don't even own one anymore. Apple is as close to WeChat as you can get in Western countries.
ezfe 3y ago
I work on a split team, Windows and macOS. We do straightforward Java work and most of the problems that we have are related to installing command-line software on Windows. Installing Postgres, Redis, etc. on Windows is wildly complicated compared to on macOS or Linux.
- jimmaswell 3y ago
  Tried WSL?
  - edgyquant 3y ago
    Yes it’s a constant source of problems. Trying to live share and get any actual work done leads to constant crashes, simply git cloning and trying to docker-compose and yarn install is a convoluted mess etc. windows is just not friendly to the kind of development common these days.

parineum 3y ago

If your dev environment is meant to be multiplatform, it's sounds a lot more like the other developers are checking in things that don't work on anything but macs. Your Linux devs are just used to dealing with it.

senttoschool 3y ago
>If your dev environment is meant to be multiplatform Why would this be the case? Dev environments should concentrate on a single platform as much as possible.

hota_mazi 3y ago

You probably live in the US and parent lives... anywhere else in the world really.