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Agreed. My understanding from someone I consider to be a very good clinical psychologist is that the only time you may need some psychotherapeutic intervention

Agreed. My understanding from someone I consider to be a very good clinical psychologist is that the only time you may need some psychotherapeutic intervention is when you are genuinely stuck with a problem you can’t figure out yourself _and_ it’s significantly hampering your quality of life in some way you consider meaningful. And then, you only need help until you’re unstuck. Teach a man to fish, and all that…

Michelangelo11 3y ago
Right, but you hear "everyone should be in therapy" from all corners; there's at least one dating app (Bumble, I think) that has an "In therapy" tag you can put on your profile; and BetterHelp advertises themselves with a commercial where girls at brunch talk about a guy one of them has been seeing, and they agree she should stop seeing him once they realize he's not in therapy, even though they know almost nothing else about him ( https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/im-not-trying-to-be-dramatic-but https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/im-not-trying-to-be-dra...). That isn't really a view of therapy as a specific intervention, but as an almost mandatory practice for adults, kind of like going to the gym. The view of the psychologist you mention is actually sadly rare. Obviously, I think the widely shared view of therapy is a total bastardization of any worth therapy might have had in the first place.
- tptacek 3y ago
  This thread is literally the first time I've ever heard "everyone should be in therapy" from anybody.
  - pastacacioepepe 3y ago
    You must live on the moon. Just google "everyone should be in therapy" and see how many results you get.
    - tptacek 3y ago
      I absolutely believe that I can Google for a sentence and find that many people have written that sentence. I am sometimes proud of myself when I come up with sentences for which that isn't the case. I'm not sure that you've demonstrated that I should have declared my residency as lunar.
      - pastacacioepepe 3y ago
        Pointless answer. The fact that there are many articles making the argument that "everyone should be in therapy" means that this is not some outlandish and never heard of opinion like you imply, but rather a well established one that you weren't, somehow, aware of.
        tptacek 3y ago
        People can make up their own minds about the implications of me not having heard of something. I'm simply providing the data point: this thread is the first time I've heard someone say "everyone should be in therapy". That doesn't make a lot of sense as an argument, either, so I'd be surprised if it was all that prevalent a belief. But who knows?
- haswell 3y ago
  While I don't believe "everyone should be in therapy" (nor have I encountered this attitude even as someone who believes in the value of therapy), the dating context is an interesting one with its own set of issues. The reality for women on dating apps is pretty terrible, and therapy is a signal for "focused on self-improvement". In a dating pool filled with emotionally immature people, it can be useful to find other people who are similarly committed to self discovery/improvement. And if you're dating in your mid 30s, a time when people are probably back in the dating pool because of a failed relationship, everyone is looking for evidence that a budding relationship isn't doomed to the same kinds of failure as the last one. There aren't may ways to socially signal "I'm focused on (internal) self improvement and I'm serious about it".
  - Michelangelo11 3y ago
    I actually don't think it sends a credible signal like that at all. I've been to several therapists, know people who've been in lots of therapy (unavoidable these days), and I don't think it leads to much if any self-improvement. It can produce plenty of insights, but insights almost never lead to change.
    - gerbilly 3y ago
      > It can produce plenty of insights, but insights almost never lead to change. Insights by themselves can't won't lead to change, but they can be a starting point. Look at it this way, say I am overweight and want to get in shape. The insight that I need to eat less and exercise by itself of course won't make me immediately fit. But that insight combined with work and support might. Also therapy, to me isn't about self improvement, it's about feeling better in one's skin. Often it not that the presenting problem even goes away, but that the way you relate to it changes.
      - Michelangelo11 3y ago
        > Look at it this way, say I am overweight and want to get in shape. The insight that I need to eat less and exercise by itself of course won't make me immediately fit. > But that insight combined with work and support might. Putting aside the fact that your example isn't actually an insight (diet and exercise as a way to lose weight is also something you hear suggested from every corner, although with more justification), the "insights" produced in therapy are supposed to lead to change largely on their own. That is, it's assumed the client already has all the resources needed but, poor dear, he's held back by flawed beliefs, which therapy is supposed to undo. Needless to say, this has little resemblance to reality. > Also therapy, to me isn't about self improvement, it's about feeling better in one's skin. Often it not that the presenting problem even goes away, but that the way you relate to it changes. Putting aside the fact that this kind of contradicts the first part of your post, where you argue for how therapy can in fact help solve your problems, sorry, this is pure cope. Changing the way you relate to a problem, in that sense, or reframing, is talking yourself into believing something bad isn't actually that bad. Auto-gaslighting with a therapist's assistance, really. I prefer to solve my problems instead of trying to trick myself into thinking they're not what they are.
- add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
  When you see everyone in a Corn Flakes commercial eating Corn Flakes does it make you think that omnipresence of Corn Flakes is a broad social trend?
  - Michelangelo11 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
      Is this the first commercial you've seen where a company presents its product as something that will make your life better, or make you fit in, or make you more attractive to others? Is this the first commercial you've seen ever?
      - dang 3y ago
        Can you please follow the site guidelines when posting here? I'm afraid you broke them more than once in this thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - Michelangelo11 3y ago
        [flagged]
        dang 3y ago
        You broke the site guidelines repeatedly and badly in this thread, as well as in other recent threads (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36923982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36923982, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36736880 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36736880). That's not cool. We have to ban accounts that post this way, because it destroys what the site is for. I don't want to ban you! If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Fortunately many of your other comments have been fine, so this should be easy to fix.
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  That link is basically infinity times better than the article we're all commenting on.
  - Michelangelo11 3y ago
    I agree! I submitted it when it came out but it kinda just sank.

Michelangelo11 3y ago

Right, but you hear "everyone should be in therapy" from all corners; there's at least one dating app (Bumble, I think) that has an "In therapy" tag you can put on your profile; and BetterHelp advertises themselves with a commercial where girls at brunch talk about a guy one of them has been seeing, and they agree she should stop seeing him once they realize he's not in therapy, even though they know almost nothing else about him ( https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/im-not-trying-to-be-dramatic-but https://freddiedeboer.substack.com/p/im-not-trying-to-be-dra...). That isn't really a view of therapy as a specific intervention, but as an almost mandatory practice for adults, kind of like going to the gym. The view of the psychologist you mention is actually sadly rare. Obviously, I think the widely shared view of therapy is a total bastardization of any worth therapy might have had in the first place.

tptacek 3y ago
This thread is literally the first time I've ever heard "everyone should be in therapy" from anybody.
- pastacacioepepe 3y ago
  You must live on the moon. Just google "everyone should be in therapy" and see how many results you get.
  - tptacek 3y ago
    I absolutely believe that I can Google for a sentence and find that many people have written that sentence. I am sometimes proud of myself when I come up with sentences for which that isn't the case. I'm not sure that you've demonstrated that I should have declared my residency as lunar.
    - pastacacioepepe 3y ago
      Pointless answer. The fact that there are many articles making the argument that "everyone should be in therapy" means that this is not some outlandish and never heard of opinion like you imply, but rather a well established one that you weren't, somehow, aware of.
      - tptacek 3y ago
        People can make up their own minds about the implications of me not having heard of something. I'm simply providing the data point: this thread is the first time I've heard someone say "everyone should be in therapy". That doesn't make a lot of sense as an argument, either, so I'd be surprised if it was all that prevalent a belief. But who knows?
haswell 3y ago
While I don't believe "everyone should be in therapy" (nor have I encountered this attitude even as someone who believes in the value of therapy), the dating context is an interesting one with its own set of issues. The reality for women on dating apps is pretty terrible, and therapy is a signal for "focused on self-improvement". In a dating pool filled with emotionally immature people, it can be useful to find other people who are similarly committed to self discovery/improvement. And if you're dating in your mid 30s, a time when people are probably back in the dating pool because of a failed relationship, everyone is looking for evidence that a budding relationship isn't doomed to the same kinds of failure as the last one. There aren't may ways to socially signal "I'm focused on (internal) self improvement and I'm serious about it".
- Michelangelo11 3y ago
  I actually don't think it sends a credible signal like that at all. I've been to several therapists, know people who've been in lots of therapy (unavoidable these days), and I don't think it leads to much if any self-improvement. It can produce plenty of insights, but insights almost never lead to change.
  - gerbilly 3y ago
    > It can produce plenty of insights, but insights almost never lead to change. Insights by themselves can't won't lead to change, but they can be a starting point. Look at it this way, say I am overweight and want to get in shape. The insight that I need to eat less and exercise by itself of course won't make me immediately fit. But that insight combined with work and support might. Also therapy, to me isn't about self improvement, it's about feeling better in one's skin. Often it not that the presenting problem even goes away, but that the way you relate to it changes.
    - Michelangelo11 3y ago
      > Look at it this way, say I am overweight and want to get in shape. The insight that I need to eat less and exercise by itself of course won't make me immediately fit. > But that insight combined with work and support might. Putting aside the fact that your example isn't actually an insight (diet and exercise as a way to lose weight is also something you hear suggested from every corner, although with more justification), the "insights" produced in therapy are supposed to lead to change largely on their own. That is, it's assumed the client already has all the resources needed but, poor dear, he's held back by flawed beliefs, which therapy is supposed to undo. Needless to say, this has little resemblance to reality. > Also therapy, to me isn't about self improvement, it's about feeling better in one's skin. Often it not that the presenting problem even goes away, but that the way you relate to it changes. Putting aside the fact that this kind of contradicts the first part of your post, where you argue for how therapy can in fact help solve your problems, sorry, this is pure cope. Changing the way you relate to a problem, in that sense, or reframing, is talking yourself into believing something bad isn't actually that bad. Auto-gaslighting with a therapist's assistance, really. I prefer to solve my problems instead of trying to trick myself into thinking they're not what they are.
add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
When you see everyone in a Corn Flakes commercial eating Corn Flakes does it make you think that omnipresence of Corn Flakes is a broad social trend?
- Michelangelo11 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - add-sub-mul-div 3y ago
    Is this the first commercial you've seen where a company presents its product as something that will make your life better, or make you fit in, or make you more attractive to others? Is this the first commercial you've seen ever?
    - dang 3y ago
      Can you please follow the site guidelines when posting here? I'm afraid you broke them more than once in this thread. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - Michelangelo11 3y ago
      [flagged]
      - dang 3y ago
        You broke the site guidelines repeatedly and badly in this thread, as well as in other recent threads (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36923982 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36923982, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36736880 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36736880). That's not cool. We have to ban accounts that post this way, because it destroys what the site is for. I don't want to ban you! If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful. Fortunately many of your other comments have been fine, so this should be easy to fix.
disgruntledphd2 3y ago
That link is basically infinity times better than the article we're all commenting on.
- Michelangelo11 3y ago
  I agree! I submitted it when it came out but it kinda just sank.