9 ms·

The papers were not ready for publication

211 points by Accujack 3y ago

max_ 3y ago
What exactly are the interesting use cases & practical applications of room temperature superconductors?
- zogomoox 3y ago
  just from the top of my head: - transport electricity from anywhere without losses - handheld tomography devices - super powerful small/light electric motors - light electric motors means: electric planes - cheap maglev trains - rail guns - possibly faster computer chips using josephson junctions
  - almostnormal 3y ago
    Another one: Lossless storage of energy.
    - peteradio 3y ago
      How does this impact storage? Conduction (as in the superconducting) is charge flow, storage is generally static charge. Is this some sort of new storage system which somehow has a benefit by constantly moving charge? But wouldn't this generate losses due to the magnetic field interactions?
      - retrac 3y ago
        The fields do not interact in that way. When you move a normal electromagnet through a magnetic field, the electromagnet's field is affected because the the other magnet induces a current in the conductor. Possibly a counter-current, lessening the total magnetic field of the electromagnet. That kind of induction doesn't happen in a superconductor. That's the Meissner effect - a superconductor rejects the induction of currents by exterior magnetic fields. I don't really understand the physics but, I think, the zero resistance is a property of a state of matter able to transfer electrons without electrons actually being involved. It's immune to normal electromagnetic effects. Practically speaking, when you charge up an inductor made out of a superconductor, and then connect the two ends together -- the current cycles endlessly and the coil holds the magnetic field. It behaves like a permanent magnet you can turn on and off. If you were to then apply a load to the terminals and break the loop, the energy held in the magnetic field will flow back out of the inductor as electricity. It's already a thing, practically. Such systems have been built to load balance spiky transmission lines, etc. They fit into a unique niche somewhere between capacitors and batteries in trade-offs.
        peteradio 3y ago
        So you've not explained how this can be used as storage. Just because the conduction is free does not mean that the field interactions don't induce a load...
        retrac 3y ago
        There is no induction, so there is no load. Consider: why does a permanent magnet stay magnetized even in a changing magnetic field? Why do two permanent magnets stay magnetized when you bring them together and apart again? When you move through the magnetic field of a permanent magnet, no energy is drawn out from the permanent magnet. All of the work occurred externally. It's the same with an energized superconducting electromagnet. Its field will not be "stripped away" by interacting with magnetic objects. The flux might be reduced if you brought an opposing magnetic flux near it -- but it would be increased again when you moved it back away. Net zero work.
      - floxy 3y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energ... ..but SMES has low energy density (but high power density).
  - max_ 3y ago
    This was great. Thanks.
  - moffkalast 3y ago
    > super powerful small/light electric motors - light electric motors means: electric planes I would be extremely sceptical that this would help electric planes all that much. Current brushless motors aren't really all that heavy for their kW output and already boast 90% efficiency at optimal load and RPM, which on a plane will be for the majority of the cruise. So maybe you can reduce the plane mass by a few percent, give it a bit more efficiency, but it doesn't change the fact that kerosene has 100x more energy density per kg than lithium ion. Electric drivetrains are already god tier in terms of power and efficiency, they just need an energy source that doesn't completely suck. Every doctor's office having an MRI and terahertz processors that use next to no power will be very cool though, if this all pans out.
    - Accujack 3y ago
      >I would be extremely sceptical that this would help electric planes all that much. Current brushless motors aren't really all that heavy for their kW output and already boast 90% efficiency at optimal load and RPM, which on a plane will be for the majority of the cruise. The highest power brushless motors listed on Amazon are about 8kW (motorcycle hub motors). Superconductors could make possible a motor of the same size with approximately a 50kW output. The weight savings would be considerable. Read this paper for more info - the paper also has a picture of a 5 MW high temperature (liquid nitrogen) superconducting motor, which is about the size of a car, and being tested for potential use in propelling large ships. https://utw10356.utweb.utexas.edu/sites/default/files/Superconductor%20based%20machine.pdf https://utw10356.utweb.utexas.edu/sites/default/files/Superc...
      - moffkalast 3y ago
        Lol, listed on Amazon. Look up some proper electric airplanes, e.g. https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/products/velis-electro https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/products/velis-electro A 60kW motor in a tiny package. A single Tesla plaid motor can do a third of a megawatt. It's very doable without superconductors.
Accujack 3y ago
Wondering what's happening with the room temperature/ambient pressure superconductor that's had 3x posts here on HN? It's turning out to be a wild story regardless of the science... which still seems to be valid, although not publicly replicated yet. I'll see if I can summarize the present situation: A couple of days ago, two papers were posted to arXiv (science publishing repository) describing a room temperature and ambient pressure superconductor created by a Korean team working at an institute in Korea. It looked promising (still does) and many people work on duplicating the results. Such a discovery would be the most important one in physics this century/Nobel prize material. The papers had some oddities - a cut and paste error, different authors listed between the two, missing some data and neither one was peer reviewed. Nonetheless, the author scientists (some who are well known) stand by their discovery. Today, how the papers were published with the above issues was discovered. One of the "authors" listed on one of the papers (YH Kwon) is the one who uploaded both papers (apparently without permission from the other authors, and maybe without being an author) to arXiv. This person apparently is affiliated with one of the corporate sponsors (LG) of the work in Korea, and he came to the team as a condition of funding for the work. When the team decided to start to publish according to the process (they'd been working on this material for a couple of years, doing their scientific due diligence) about four weeks ago, they apparently decided not to give any credit to the industry person because he was just "there" because of funding. The industry person quit the team then, and left the organization. The remaining team submitted their paper for peer review in a well known journal, where it's working through the process now. The industry person went on to upload the two papers (one with edited author list) to arXiv, and apparently today gave a speech at an industry conference in Korea taking credit for the work. So, he's not happy with the team and he's apparently trying to take credit. The rest of the team working on this material stands by their work and is waiting for the proper peer review process to complete on the paper they submitted to the scientific journal to be done, at which point they would (quite properly following the process) publish it. So here we are, with one rogue scientist doing his best to claim credit for this discovery and bypassing all standard scientific publishing practices, with the non peer reviewed version of the team's paper and an edited/incorrect version of another paper sent out to the world before the original team could publish theirs. The good news from all this is that all these people (including well known/respected scientists and professors) are behaving not like frauds but as if they've actually discovered what they say they have. This lends credence to the idea that this major discovery in physics and materials science is real and may change the world. Attempts to replicate the material (called LK-99) are proceeding based on the "unready/leaked" papers and may or may not succeed. If they do not, it's likely when the peer reviewed version comes out that replication by at least one "real" scientific lab will already have been done prior to publication, and the peer reviewed version of the article will have more/more correct information to aid in duplicating the LK-99 material. Regardless of what happens, this is an amazing story. The link I CCed above is to a Twitter post giving details on the above. There's now a Twitter list being compiled of all the people working on replication and reporting on the drama, see here: https://twitter.com/altryne/status/1685148163223719936 https://twitter.com/altryne/status/1685148163223719936 *Edit: Here's the actual list of LK-99 related Twitterers: https://twitter.com/i/lists/1684446795731206144 https://twitter.com/i/lists/1684446795731206144
akasakahakada 3y ago
I think everyone should just stfu and do experiments. Let the law of physics to decide who is the winner. All these side stories are irrelevant nonsense trash.
- p1mrx 3y ago
  When should we expect to see the result of your experiments?
- aaron695 3y ago
  [dead]
- falseAss 3y ago
  this one. The only thing matters is whether this is real or not. It's really not the time to care these messy trivials
AndrewPGameDev 3y ago
I really don't understand why this tweet implied that Lee and Kim are autistic, or that they needed to be "babysit" by a different professor. Seems weirdly hostile for no discernable reason. Regardless, I don't think I'm going to be super hyped about the LK-99 story until we see some replication, which should hopefully happen within a couple days.
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  “Autist” is a slang term of endearment for people who are weirdly obsessed about various things. It’s similar to “based”. It doesn’t mean anything other than they were not worldly businessmen and investors felt they needed an adult to watch them.
  - bagels 3y ago
    Yeah, I think some people might find it offensive when it's actually used as an insult.
  - steve_adams_86 3y ago
    I’m not sure I’ve ever heard it used as a term of endearment so much as a way of describing someone as strange or atypical while purposefully distancing yourself from them. It’s not flattering, and it’s overtly marginalizing. I don’t take much offence from it, and I don’t find it remotely endearing either. I can’t speak for all people on the spectrum, but I doubt many actually like it.
    - monero-xmr 3y ago
      In financial / crypto trading subcultures it’s quite popular. I don’t control what becomes slang.
      - labster 3y ago
        Perhaps you are misinterpreting slang based on a desire to think more positively? The whole tweet, er, x had a condescending tone to me.
yongjik 3y ago
A few hours ago people found a Facebook post dated June, by some professor in Korea, where he posted a photo of a cold-call mass mail by the Quantum Energy Lab (the lab in question), claiming that they had discovered room-temperature superconductor and asking for a private meeting for demonstration. His verdict was that it was a total scam, because why would anyone with room-temperature superconductor be shopping for private meetings instead of submitting a paper to Nature and getting instant fame. It doesn't prove that it's a scam, but it's not looking good, either. Link (in Korean): https://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=superconductor&no=6134 https://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=superconductor&no=6...
- nneonneo 3y ago
  Probably because they tried submitting a paper to Nature and were rebuffed, but they’re still fully convinced they have something that works. They may have been wanting to find someone to collaborate on the validation so they could get that Nature paper out.
- CSMastermind 3y ago
  Here's a translation of the posts for those who don't speak Korean, apologies for any inaccuracies a native speaker could do a better job: Question: Do you have any thoughts on this video? Nature, which I heard was reluctant to publish a paper about it, asked for the results to be published in another academic journal first. Response: I've never seen anything like this video. This is what happens when you put a copper-neodymium magnet next to it. Superconductors do not show this characteristic. Copper does not stick to magnets. However, copper reacts when a magnet moves. This is because when the magnetic field applied to copper changes, eddy currents flow in copper to prevent the magnetic field from changing. This image shows a typical example of copper and a rapidly moving neodymium magnet. As the representative of the academic community, I try not to express my opinion on room-temperature superconductivity until the verification by a professional institution is completed. But I was convinced after seeing this. If it is a superconductor with the Meissner effect, even if the neodymium magnet is pushed very slowly, the superconductor should be pushed out. If a permanent magnet is moved quickly in this way, a phenomenon occurs in which the copper disk is pushed or pulled by the eddy currents induced in the copper disk. If there is a superconductor of this size, it can be verified by sending it to a professional institution and just measuring the electrical resistance. How could these kids grown it to be so big? This is not something that can be picked up. There was also a century-old lie of this level in the last century. Room-temperature nuclear fusion. There is a 0.0001% chance that I will be embarrassed, but if that is the case, I will apologize with a happy heart. What's going on? --- Then there's some discussion about who the people who created the video are and the letters DOD appear but I have no idea if that means "Department of Defense" or some other acronym. --- Someone posts sarcastically: Hahaha, The era of room-temperature superconductivity has finally arrived! And it's not even in a high-pressure environment! Maybe my luck will change now? But why at 127°C? Everyone else expresses critical temperature in absolute temperature, right? Why 127? Oh, I see, that's 400 K. It's not common for a material to have a critical temperature that's so precise and at a nice round number. I received a document in the mail that was meant to be sent to a professor at Seoul National University. I guess they made a bunch of copies and mixed up the envelopes and documents. I wonder if this professor, who is an honorary professor at Hanyang University, has ever even attended an international conference. If he presented these results at an international conference, it would be a huge success. Superconductivity and energy...they use all the buzzwords. --- They post a picture of the letter which says: Dear Professor, I am writing to inform you that the research you have been conducting has been successful. We have achieved room-temperature superconductivity, which is a major breakthrough in the field of energy. I would like to thank you for your hard work and dedication to this project. Your contributions have been invaluable, and we could not have achieved this success without you. I am confident that this breakthrough will have a significant impact on the world. It has the potential to revolutionize the way we generate and use energy, and it could lead to new applications in many other fields. I would like to invite you to present your findings at an upcoming international conference. This would be an excellent opportunity to share your work with the world and to discuss the potential applications of room-temperature superconductivity. Thank you again for your contributions to this project. I look forward to hearing from you soon. Sincerely, Kim Hyuntak CEO, Energy Research Institute
rcpt 3y ago
Super interested in what's going to happen with this but I had to mute that account. Feels like they're just engagement farming and making wild guesses from outside.
- teetertater 3y ago
  Came to the exact same conclusion. Who is this person and where are their sources?
cmrdporcupine 3y ago
Paywalled.
javajosh 3y ago
We got K-pop, K-drama, and now K-sci--with K-drama pan-chan. It's a little sad that people act this way, but hey, the public has made it VERY clear that they do NOT value dignity, they only value winning. I think this kind of back-biting and drama is precisely why cultural norms around virtue, dignity, and respect are valuable. I suppose the alternative view is that this is all small beans, and the important thing is that a major discovery was made no matter how messily.
- kimorpark 3y ago
  Your rando korea bashing reveals the nature of your neighboorhood upbringing and manners. Please stick to science facts re lk99 on this post.
  - javajosh 3y ago
    Oh shit, you got me. Yeah, Korea sucks - it's basically just a peninsula with a nasty DMZ running through the middle, temperate rain-forests and mountains that are so 90's and lame. Did I mention the geology? Jesus, don't get me started. Not a subduction zone for a thousand miles in any direction! It's embarrassing. I'm not sure how you picked that up from my comment, but damn you're good.
duped 3y ago
If it turns out all you need to make STP superconductors is a furnace (granted, a good lab furnace) and some lead and potassium, there are thousands of foundries across the world that will start making it and its variants with no regard for IP rights. Semiconductors regularly use similar processes during production and they're not the hard ones, so it seems like good news if it's just the recipe that needs to be copied. It's pretty great for humanity if it turns out to be real and relatively simple to produce.
- tomrod 3y ago
  Seems reasonable that such a pressing tech gets a high reward. Say, $200M for each inventor, then humanity is set?
  - javajosh 3y ago
    10 million gives a person a nice home or two in most places people want to live, plus a six figure income for the rest of their life. 200 million is private jet money.
    - worrycue 3y ago
      Why not though.
      - Rebelgecko 3y ago
        I'm tired of gofundmes
  - sillysaurusx 3y ago
    Whose $200M? That’s the rub. I agree with you morally, and I think most people would agree that inventors of fundamental tech should be as well-compensated as founders who “merely” bring it to market. But were Einstein or Feynman wealthy, or Newton before them? Perhaps it’s the scientific fate to be at odds with capitalism. On the other hand, no amount of money can immortalize you the way this type of discovery would.
ck2 3y ago
In all seriousness and not sarcasm, using any kind of link to twitter seems like a really bad idea for persistence.
patatero 3y ago
Based on the tweet it sounds like the problem stems from Nobel Prize only allowing a maximum of 3 names on a paper.
epups 3y ago
I was excited initially, but now I would place the probability that this is true at under 1%. If you build a working room temperature superconductor in 2021 and have a patent ready in March 2023, it is absolutely ridiculous that you would not have dozens of samples to share by now. Everyone is focusing on replication but we haven't even independently validated their claim yet.
adad95 3y ago
Korean LK-99 Ambient Temperature Superconductor BUSTED! by EEvBlog - https://youtu.be/QHPFphlzwdQ https://youtu.be/QHPFphlzwdQ
- lmpdev 3y ago
  I love EEVBlog but I wish he'd stop making videos on topics outside his area of expertise for views He's excellent at electronic engineering but he's not a physicist
  - IshKebab 3y ago
    He just pointed out that their demonstration video can be easily explained without any superconduction. I don't see why you need to be a professional physicist for that. Do you also need to be a physicist to point out that their "levitating" sample is in fact still touching the magnet? Or that the "0 resistance" is actually 1000x more resistive than copper.
eqvinox 3y ago
If they had a working(-ish) room temperature and pressure superconductor in 1999 and, for 20 fricken years, were unable to get it out the door due to how the scientific community and publications work… the scientific community needs an overhaul. (To be fair, this feels like a problem specific to the scientific community in Korea.)
- was_a_dev 3y ago
  If they had a RTAP superconductor in 1999. Industry would have bypassed the scientific community by now
seesawtron 3y ago
Reminds me of the CRISPR "war" between groups of scientists who tried to patent is llt as their own. https://www.science.org/content/article/how-battle-lines-over-crispr-were-drawn https://www.science.org/content/article/how-battle-lines-ove...
kimorpark 3y ago
Here is a more detailed link about the replication claim. https://nitter.net/iris_igb/status/1685341730902577153#m https://nitter.net/iris_igb/status/1685341730902577153#m
xbox99 3y ago
Here's the issue with copper and the Meissner effect and claims in this paper: - 50% copper phosphide in the material. - Lenz's law effect on copper content (e.g. trojan horse situation.."lets use copper because this will make the demos easy"). - No clear demonstration of the Meissner effect. Link to eevblog and replicating the v silly video on the landing page of the institute (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHPFphlzwdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHPFphlzwdQ). There are other problems but this screams of professional fakery but fakery indeed.

211 points by Accujack 3y ago

max_ 3y ago

What exactly are the interesting use cases & practical applications of room temperature superconductors?

zogomoox 3y ago
just from the top of my head: - transport electricity from anywhere without losses - handheld tomography devices - super powerful small/light electric motors - light electric motors means: electric planes - cheap maglev trains - rail guns - possibly faster computer chips using josephson junctions
- almostnormal 3y ago
  Another one: Lossless storage of energy.
  - peteradio 3y ago
    How does this impact storage? Conduction (as in the superconducting) is charge flow, storage is generally static charge. Is this some sort of new storage system which somehow has a benefit by constantly moving charge? But wouldn't this generate losses due to the magnetic field interactions?
    - retrac 3y ago
      The fields do not interact in that way. When you move a normal electromagnet through a magnetic field, the electromagnet's field is affected because the the other magnet induces a current in the conductor. Possibly a counter-current, lessening the total magnetic field of the electromagnet. That kind of induction doesn't happen in a superconductor. That's the Meissner effect - a superconductor rejects the induction of currents by exterior magnetic fields. I don't really understand the physics but, I think, the zero resistance is a property of a state of matter able to transfer electrons without electrons actually being involved. It's immune to normal electromagnetic effects. Practically speaking, when you charge up an inductor made out of a superconductor, and then connect the two ends together -- the current cycles endlessly and the coil holds the magnetic field. It behaves like a permanent magnet you can turn on and off. If you were to then apply a load to the terminals and break the loop, the energy held in the magnetic field will flow back out of the inductor as electricity. It's already a thing, practically. Such systems have been built to load balance spiky transmission lines, etc. They fit into a unique niche somewhere between capacitors and batteries in trade-offs.
      - peteradio 3y ago
        So you've not explained how this can be used as storage. Just because the conduction is free does not mean that the field interactions don't induce a load...
        retrac 3y ago
        There is no induction, so there is no load. Consider: why does a permanent magnet stay magnetized even in a changing magnetic field? Why do two permanent magnets stay magnetized when you bring them together and apart again? When you move through the magnetic field of a permanent magnet, no energy is drawn out from the permanent magnet. All of the work occurred externally. It's the same with an energized superconducting electromagnet. Its field will not be "stripped away" by interacting with magnetic objects. The flux might be reduced if you brought an opposing magnetic flux near it -- but it would be increased again when you moved it back away. Net zero work.
    - floxy 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energy_storage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superconducting_magnetic_energ... ..but SMES has low energy density (but high power density).
- max_ 3y ago
  This was great. Thanks.
- moffkalast 3y ago
  > super powerful small/light electric motors - light electric motors means: electric planes I would be extremely sceptical that this would help electric planes all that much. Current brushless motors aren't really all that heavy for their kW output and already boast 90% efficiency at optimal load and RPM, which on a plane will be for the majority of the cruise. So maybe you can reduce the plane mass by a few percent, give it a bit more efficiency, but it doesn't change the fact that kerosene has 100x more energy density per kg than lithium ion. Electric drivetrains are already god tier in terms of power and efficiency, they just need an energy source that doesn't completely suck. Every doctor's office having an MRI and terahertz processors that use next to no power will be very cool though, if this all pans out.
  - Accujack 3y ago
    >I would be extremely sceptical that this would help electric planes all that much. Current brushless motors aren't really all that heavy for their kW output and already boast 90% efficiency at optimal load and RPM, which on a plane will be for the majority of the cruise. The highest power brushless motors listed on Amazon are about 8kW (motorcycle hub motors). Superconductors could make possible a motor of the same size with approximately a 50kW output. The weight savings would be considerable. Read this paper for more info - the paper also has a picture of a 5 MW high temperature (liquid nitrogen) superconducting motor, which is about the size of a car, and being tested for potential use in propelling large ships. https://utw10356.utweb.utexas.edu/sites/default/files/Superconductor%20based%20machine.pdf https://utw10356.utweb.utexas.edu/sites/default/files/Superc...
    - moffkalast 3y ago
      Lol, listed on Amazon. Look up some proper electric airplanes, e.g. https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/products/velis-electro https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com/products/velis-electro A 60kW motor in a tiny package. A single Tesla plaid motor can do a third of a megawatt. It's very doable without superconductors.

Accujack 3y ago

Wondering what's happening with the room temperature/ambient pressure superconductor that's had 3x posts here on HN? It's turning out to be a wild story regardless of the science... which still seems to be valid, although not publicly replicated yet. I'll see if I can summarize the present situation: A couple of days ago, two papers were posted to arXiv (science publishing repository) describing a room temperature and ambient pressure superconductor created by a Korean team working at an institute in Korea. It looked promising (still does) and many people work on duplicating the results. Such a discovery would be the most important one in physics this century/Nobel prize material. The papers had some oddities - a cut and paste error, different authors listed between the two, missing some data and neither one was peer reviewed. Nonetheless, the author scientists (some who are well known) stand by their discovery. Today, how the papers were published with the above issues was discovered. One of the "authors" listed on one of the papers (YH Kwon) is the one who uploaded both papers (apparently without permission from the other authors, and maybe without being an author) to arXiv. This person apparently is affiliated with one of the corporate sponsors (LG) of the work in Korea, and he came to the team as a condition of funding for the work. When the team decided to start to publish according to the process (they'd been working on this material for a couple of years, doing their scientific due diligence) about four weeks ago, they apparently decided not to give any credit to the industry person because he was just "there" because of funding. The industry person quit the team then, and left the organization. The remaining team submitted their paper for peer review in a well known journal, where it's working through the process now. The industry person went on to upload the two papers (one with edited author list) to arXiv, and apparently today gave a speech at an industry conference in Korea taking credit for the work. So, he's not happy with the team and he's apparently trying to take credit. The rest of the team working on this material stands by their work and is waiting for the proper peer review process to complete on the paper they submitted to the scientific journal to be done, at which point they would (quite properly following the process) publish it. So here we are, with one rogue scientist doing his best to claim credit for this discovery and bypassing all standard scientific publishing practices, with the non peer reviewed version of the team's paper and an edited/incorrect version of another paper sent out to the world before the original team could publish theirs. The good news from all this is that all these people (including well known/respected scientists and professors) are behaving not like frauds but as if they've actually discovered what they say they have. This lends credence to the idea that this major discovery in physics and materials science is real and may change the world. Attempts to replicate the material (called LK-99) are proceeding based on the "unready/leaked" papers and may or may not succeed. If they do not, it's likely when the peer reviewed version comes out that replication by at least one "real" scientific lab will already have been done prior to publication, and the peer reviewed version of the article will have more/more correct information to aid in duplicating the LK-99 material. Regardless of what happens, this is an amazing story. The link I CCed above is to a Twitter post giving details on the above. There's now a Twitter list being compiled of all the people working on replication and reporting on the drama, see here: https://twitter.com/altryne/status/1685148163223719936 https://twitter.com/altryne/status/1685148163223719936 *Edit: Here's the actual list of LK-99 related Twitterers: https://twitter.com/i/lists/1684446795731206144 https://twitter.com/i/lists/1684446795731206144

akasakahakada 3y ago

I think everyone should just stfu and do experiments. Let the law of physics to decide who is the winner. All these side stories are irrelevant nonsense trash.

p1mrx 3y ago
When should we expect to see the result of your experiments?
aaron695 3y ago
[dead]
falseAss 3y ago
this one. The only thing matters is whether this is real or not. It's really not the time to care these messy trivials

AndrewPGameDev 3y ago

I really don't understand why this tweet implied that Lee and Kim are autistic, or that they needed to be "babysit" by a different professor. Seems weirdly hostile for no discernable reason. Regardless, I don't think I'm going to be super hyped about the LK-99 story until we see some replication, which should hopefully happen within a couple days.

monero-xmr 3y ago
“Autist” is a slang term of endearment for people who are weirdly obsessed about various things. It’s similar to “based”. It doesn’t mean anything other than they were not worldly businessmen and investors felt they needed an adult to watch them.
- bagels 3y ago
  Yeah, I think some people might find it offensive when it's actually used as an insult.
- steve_adams_86 3y ago
  I’m not sure I’ve ever heard it used as a term of endearment so much as a way of describing someone as strange or atypical while purposefully distancing yourself from them. It’s not flattering, and it’s overtly marginalizing. I don’t take much offence from it, and I don’t find it remotely endearing either. I can’t speak for all people on the spectrum, but I doubt many actually like it.
  - monero-xmr 3y ago
    In financial / crypto trading subcultures it’s quite popular. I don’t control what becomes slang.
    - labster 3y ago
      Perhaps you are misinterpreting slang based on a desire to think more positively? The whole tweet, er, x had a condescending tone to me.

yongjik 3y ago

A few hours ago people found a Facebook post dated June, by some professor in Korea, where he posted a photo of a cold-call mass mail by the Quantum Energy Lab (the lab in question), claiming that they had discovered room-temperature superconductor and asking for a private meeting for demonstration. His verdict was that it was a total scam, because why would anyone with room-temperature superconductor be shopping for private meetings instead of submitting a paper to Nature and getting instant fame. It doesn't prove that it's a scam, but it's not looking good, either. Link (in Korean): https://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=superconductor&no=6134 https://gall.dcinside.com/board/view/?id=superconductor&no=6...

nneonneo 3y ago
Probably because they tried submitting a paper to Nature and were rebuffed, but they’re still fully convinced they have something that works. They may have been wanting to find someone to collaborate on the validation so they could get that Nature paper out.
CSMastermind 3y ago
Here's a translation of the posts for those who don't speak Korean, apologies for any inaccuracies a native speaker could do a better job: Question: Do you have any thoughts on this video? Nature, which I heard was reluctant to publish a paper about it, asked for the results to be published in another academic journal first. Response: I've never seen anything like this video. This is what happens when you put a copper-neodymium magnet next to it. Superconductors do not show this characteristic. Copper does not stick to magnets. However, copper reacts when a magnet moves. This is because when the magnetic field applied to copper changes, eddy currents flow in copper to prevent the magnetic field from changing. This image shows a typical example of copper and a rapidly moving neodymium magnet. As the representative of the academic community, I try not to express my opinion on room-temperature superconductivity until the verification by a professional institution is completed. But I was convinced after seeing this. If it is a superconductor with the Meissner effect, even if the neodymium magnet is pushed very slowly, the superconductor should be pushed out. If a permanent magnet is moved quickly in this way, a phenomenon occurs in which the copper disk is pushed or pulled by the eddy currents induced in the copper disk. If there is a superconductor of this size, it can be verified by sending it to a professional institution and just measuring the electrical resistance. How could these kids grown it to be so big? This is not something that can be picked up. There was also a century-old lie of this level in the last century. Room-temperature nuclear fusion. There is a 0.0001% chance that I will be embarrassed, but if that is the case, I will apologize with a happy heart. What's going on? --- Then there's some discussion about who the people who created the video are and the letters DOD appear but I have no idea if that means "Department of Defense" or some other acronym. --- Someone posts sarcastically: Hahaha, The era of room-temperature superconductivity has finally arrived! And it's not even in a high-pressure environment! Maybe my luck will change now? But why at 127°C? Everyone else expresses critical temperature in absolute temperature, right? Why 127? Oh, I see, that's 400 K. It's not common for a material to have a critical temperature that's so precise and at a nice round number. I received a document in the mail that was meant to be sent to a professor at Seoul National University. I guess they made a bunch of copies and mixed up the envelopes and documents. I wonder if this professor, who is an honorary professor at Hanyang University, has ever even attended an international conference. If he presented these results at an international conference, it would be a huge success. Superconductivity and energy...they use all the buzzwords. --- They post a picture of the letter which says: Dear Professor, I am writing to inform you that the research you have been conducting has been successful. We have achieved room-temperature superconductivity, which is a major breakthrough in the field of energy. I would like to thank you for your hard work and dedication to this project. Your contributions have been invaluable, and we could not have achieved this success without you. I am confident that this breakthrough will have a significant impact on the world. It has the potential to revolutionize the way we generate and use energy, and it could lead to new applications in many other fields. I would like to invite you to present your findings at an upcoming international conference. This would be an excellent opportunity to share your work with the world and to discuss the potential applications of room-temperature superconductivity. Thank you again for your contributions to this project. I look forward to hearing from you soon. Sincerely, Kim Hyuntak CEO, Energy Research Institute

rcpt 3y ago

Super interested in what's going to happen with this but I had to mute that account. Feels like they're just engagement farming and making wild guesses from outside.

teetertater 3y ago
Came to the exact same conclusion. Who is this person and where are their sources?

cmrdporcupine 3y ago

Paywalled.

javajosh 3y ago

We got K-pop, K-drama, and now K-sci--with K-drama pan-chan. It's a little sad that people act this way, but hey, the public has made it VERY clear that they do NOT value dignity, they only value winning. I think this kind of back-biting and drama is precisely why cultural norms around virtue, dignity, and respect are valuable. I suppose the alternative view is that this is all small beans, and the important thing is that a major discovery was made no matter how messily.

kimorpark 3y ago
Your rando korea bashing reveals the nature of your neighboorhood upbringing and manners. Please stick to science facts re lk99 on this post.
- javajosh 3y ago
  Oh shit, you got me. Yeah, Korea sucks - it's basically just a peninsula with a nasty DMZ running through the middle, temperate rain-forests and mountains that are so 90's and lame. Did I mention the geology? Jesus, don't get me started. Not a subduction zone for a thousand miles in any direction! It's embarrassing. I'm not sure how you picked that up from my comment, but damn you're good.

duped 3y ago

If it turns out all you need to make STP superconductors is a furnace (granted, a good lab furnace) and some lead and potassium, there are thousands of foundries across the world that will start making it and its variants with no regard for IP rights. Semiconductors regularly use similar processes during production and they're not the hard ones, so it seems like good news if it's just the recipe that needs to be copied. It's pretty great for humanity if it turns out to be real and relatively simple to produce.

tomrod 3y ago
Seems reasonable that such a pressing tech gets a high reward. Say, $200M for each inventor, then humanity is set?
- javajosh 3y ago
  10 million gives a person a nice home or two in most places people want to live, plus a six figure income for the rest of their life. 200 million is private jet money.
  - worrycue 3y ago
    Why not though.
    - Rebelgecko 3y ago
      I'm tired of gofundmes
- sillysaurusx 3y ago
  Whose $200M? That’s the rub. I agree with you morally, and I think most people would agree that inventors of fundamental tech should be as well-compensated as founders who “merely” bring it to market. But were Einstein or Feynman wealthy, or Newton before them? Perhaps it’s the scientific fate to be at odds with capitalism. On the other hand, no amount of money can immortalize you the way this type of discovery would.

ck2 3y ago

In all seriousness and not sarcasm, using any kind of link to twitter seems like a really bad idea for persistence.

patatero 3y ago

Based on the tweet it sounds like the problem stems from Nobel Prize only allowing a maximum of 3 names on a paper.

epups 3y ago

I was excited initially, but now I would place the probability that this is true at under 1%. If you build a working room temperature superconductor in 2021 and have a patent ready in March 2023, it is absolutely ridiculous that you would not have dozens of samples to share by now. Everyone is focusing on replication but we haven't even independently validated their claim yet.

adad95 3y ago

Korean LK-99 Ambient Temperature Superconductor BUSTED! by EEvBlog - https://youtu.be/QHPFphlzwdQ https://youtu.be/QHPFphlzwdQ

lmpdev 3y ago
I love EEVBlog but I wish he'd stop making videos on topics outside his area of expertise for views He's excellent at electronic engineering but he's not a physicist
- IshKebab 3y ago
  He just pointed out that their demonstration video can be easily explained without any superconduction. I don't see why you need to be a professional physicist for that. Do you also need to be a physicist to point out that their "levitating" sample is in fact still touching the magnet? Or that the "0 resistance" is actually 1000x more resistive than copper.

eqvinox 3y ago

If they had a working(-ish) room temperature and pressure superconductor in 1999 and, for 20 fricken years, were unable to get it out the door due to how the scientific community and publications work… the scientific community needs an overhaul. (To be fair, this feels like a problem specific to the scientific community in Korea.)

was_a_dev 3y ago
If they had a RTAP superconductor in 1999. Industry would have bypassed the scientific community by now

seesawtron 3y ago

Reminds me of the CRISPR "war" between groups of scientists who tried to patent is llt as their own. https://www.science.org/content/article/how-battle-lines-over-crispr-were-drawn https://www.science.org/content/article/how-battle-lines-ove...

kimorpark 3y ago

Here is a more detailed link about the replication claim. https://nitter.net/iris_igb/status/1685341730902577153#m https://nitter.net/iris_igb/status/1685341730902577153#m

xbox99 3y ago

Here's the issue with copper and the Meissner effect and claims in this paper: - 50% copper phosphide in the material. - Lenz's law effect on copper content (e.g. trojan horse situation.."lets use copper because this will make the demos easy"). - No clear demonstration of the Meissner effect. Link to eevblog and replicating the v silly video on the landing page of the institute (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHPFphlzwdQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHPFphlzwdQ). There are other problems but this screams of professional fakery but fakery indeed.