4 ms·

Traffic cameras are not a safety encouragement device. I'd classify them as a 'revenue generating device' or a regressive tax. I would feel much safer if the

Traffic cameras are not a safety encouragement device. I'd classify them as a 'revenue generating device' or a regressive tax. I would feel much safer if the majority of police resources were allocated to the 'worst' violations of the laws (hardest crimes) first.

8organicbits 3y ago
Why do you believe they don't provide safety? Some countries apply fines proportional to income, so there's no inherent need for them to be regressive. Having driven in places where some roads are dotted with cameras and others are bare, the driving behavior is clearly altered. With cameras present, most drivers don't speed. Others speed just below the ticket threshold (+5mph?), or speed only between the cameras. On the roads without cameras drivers are often 10-15mph over the limit with some even faster.
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  I don't have a citation handy, but I've seen studies showing that red light cameras increase accidents. People slam the brakes because they don't want to get their picture taken and get rear ended I'm also not crazy about it from a privacy perspective.
  - abenga 3y ago
    You wouldn't need to slam on your brakes if you are not speeding in the first place, right? Privacy seems a valid argument to me though.
Scoundreller 3y ago
At least in many euro countries, a camera ticket will still go against the driver and their license. In North America we’ve given up on this safety aspect and just ticket the vehicle owner with no ability to assign liability (or points) to the actually guilty driver.
gruez 3y ago
>I would feel much safer if the majority of police resources were allocated to the 'worst' violations of the laws (hardest crimes) first. Like motor vehicle deaths? In 2022 there were 42,795 such deaths in the US. Meanwhile there were only 22,941 murders in 2021.
- mjevans 3y ago
  It would be more realistic to compare pre-pandemic numbers since behavior was so wildly divergent from normal during the lockdowns. However I'd rather the full cause of those deaths were broken down. How many were _just_ someone driving fast? Many drivers do go faster than the recommended / suggested speed, without incident, every day in many places. Surely most of those instances involve some other factor. Maybe it's drugs or alcohol, maybe it's mechanical failure or a medical condition, maybe it's criminal intent to harm. They are rare but I can think of two or three somewhat recent national news stories that involve someone crazy using their vehicle as a weapon on sidewalks or against crowds.
ldoughty 3y ago
Traffic cameras as they are now are probably not the best safety encouragement device. I don't understand why states or localities have not run cameras along major routes and looked for speeding over a longer period of time, as opposed to speeding at a specific point. It certainly would be a safety device if you were seen traveling effectively +20 mph over 15/20/30 minutes along a highway.. proves a willful negligence to traffic laws while leaving unharmed those that go 15 over to skirt by an 18 wheeler that is fish-tailing.
- concordDance 3y ago
  > I don't understand why states or localities have not run cameras along major routes and looked for speeding over a longer period of time, as opposed to speeding at a specific point. They do in the UK.
lamontcg 3y ago
On the one hand I totally agree and I've been arguing locally against proposals to put in traffic cameras on the basis of them being regressive taxes--and that we should be putting in place more traffic calming devices and road diets to stop speeding. But OTOH I'd like to get the cops entirely out of the business of enforcing traffic laws and doing stops entirely. Make all traffic enforcement automated and legalize all drugs. Make the cops go find something else to do with their time.
- sitkack 3y ago
  You have my vote Mayor!
concordDance 3y ago
> Traffic cameras are not a safety encouragement device. I'd classify them as a 'revenue generating device' or a regressive tax. Here in the UK they are clearly signposted so you can slow down before you get to it. If you don't slow down because you're going too fast or aren't paying attention then you're behaving dangerously and need discouraging. They genuinely improve safety imo.

8organicbits 3y ago

Why do you believe they don't provide safety? Some countries apply fines proportional to income, so there's no inherent need for them to be regressive. Having driven in places where some roads are dotted with cameras and others are bare, the driving behavior is clearly altered. With cameras present, most drivers don't speed. Others speed just below the ticket threshold (+5mph?), or speed only between the cameras. On the roads without cameras drivers are often 10-15mph over the limit with some even faster.

Rebelgecko 3y ago
I don't have a citation handy, but I've seen studies showing that red light cameras increase accidents. People slam the brakes because they don't want to get their picture taken and get rear ended I'm also not crazy about it from a privacy perspective.
- abenga 3y ago
  You wouldn't need to slam on your brakes if you are not speeding in the first place, right? Privacy seems a valid argument to me though.

Scoundreller 3y ago

At least in many euro countries, a camera ticket will still go against the driver and their license. In North America we’ve given up on this safety aspect and just ticket the vehicle owner with no ability to assign liability (or points) to the actually guilty driver.

gruez 3y ago

>I would feel much safer if the majority of police resources were allocated to the 'worst' violations of the laws (hardest crimes) first. Like motor vehicle deaths? In 2022 there were 42,795 such deaths in the US. Meanwhile there were only 22,941 murders in 2021.

mjevans 3y ago
It would be more realistic to compare pre-pandemic numbers since behavior was so wildly divergent from normal during the lockdowns. However I'd rather the full cause of those deaths were broken down. How many were _just_ someone driving fast? Many drivers do go faster than the recommended / suggested speed, without incident, every day in many places. Surely most of those instances involve some other factor. Maybe it's drugs or alcohol, maybe it's mechanical failure or a medical condition, maybe it's criminal intent to harm. They are rare but I can think of two or three somewhat recent national news stories that involve someone crazy using their vehicle as a weapon on sidewalks or against crowds.

ldoughty 3y ago

Traffic cameras as they are now are probably not the best safety encouragement device. I don't understand why states or localities have not run cameras along major routes and looked for speeding over a longer period of time, as opposed to speeding at a specific point. It certainly would be a safety device if you were seen traveling effectively +20 mph over 15/20/30 minutes along a highway.. proves a willful negligence to traffic laws while leaving unharmed those that go 15 over to skirt by an 18 wheeler that is fish-tailing.

concordDance 3y ago
> I don't understand why states or localities have not run cameras along major routes and looked for speeding over a longer period of time, as opposed to speeding at a specific point. They do in the UK.

lamontcg 3y ago

On the one hand I totally agree and I've been arguing locally against proposals to put in traffic cameras on the basis of them being regressive taxes--and that we should be putting in place more traffic calming devices and road diets to stop speeding. But OTOH I'd like to get the cops entirely out of the business of enforcing traffic laws and doing stops entirely. Make all traffic enforcement automated and legalize all drugs. Make the cops go find something else to do with their time.

sitkack 3y ago
You have my vote Mayor!

concordDance 3y ago

> Traffic cameras are not a safety encouragement device. I'd classify them as a 'revenue generating device' or a regressive tax. Here in the UK they are clearly signposted so you can slow down before you get to it. If you don't slow down because you're going too fast or aren't paying attention then you're behaving dangerously and need discouraging. They genuinely improve safety imo.