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> It's a deadly arms race to get as big as you can Every time I hear someone say they like their SUV or mondo pickup truck because it feels safer, I usually re

> It's a deadly arms race to get as big as you can Every time I hear someone say they like their SUV or mondo pickup truck because it feels safer, I usually reply, "I know what you mean. That is why I stand up when watching movies in the theater -- the view is so much better."

DiggyJohnson 3y ago
Do you really say that? I take your point, but the metaphor is ridiculous because the view isn’t even better standing up, and it’s rare to find oneself in such a situation - let alone to find oneself in such a situation and choose to be confrontational.
- tcfhgj 3y ago
  Actually I have had such situations often, when the head of a person in front obscures a part of the view
- pmg102 3y ago
  Things changed very rapidly in the seventies with the oil shock, I believe. Cars suddenly shrank. Noone wanted big old bloated barges. Maybe something similar will happen again, ie energy will become expensive.
thepasswordis 3y ago
Do you seriously say this? I cannot imagine how insufferable it would be to hear this from somebody. I have kids and I don't care how my SUV makes you feel. Riding a bike is a cool hobby, and my family and I own tons of bikes that we take on the awesome bike paths they have all over our town. Bikes are also a great way to exercise. But they don't really belong on roads. Taking a bike a place it isn't mean to go, then complaining about how unfit for the bike that place is, is absurd. You aren't supposed to stand up in a movie theater. You are supposed to drive your car on the streets that we build specifically for driving cars.
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  > I have kids and I don't care how my SUV makes you feel. Okay, but you should be aware that everyone with an SUV increases the danger to everyone else's kids. > But they don't really belong on roads. Taking a bike a place it isn't mean to go, then complaining about how unfit for the bike that place is, is absurd. Bikes have to share roads almost everywhere, and big cars are also bad at pedestrian safety. > You aren't supposed to stand up in a movie theater. You are supposed to drive your car on the streets that we build specifically for driving cars. You're supposed to have a car, you're not supposed to have an oversized one.
  - fnimick 3y ago
    Oh, they know, but they don't care. Their kids are in the SUV and they're fine. If your kids are outside the SUV and get run over, that's not their problem.
    - thepasswordis 3y ago
      [flagged]
  - mint2 3y ago
    > You are supposed to drive your car on the streets that we build specifically for driving cars. These types of statements illustrate the lack of cognition the average person employees versus parroting words. This superficial and attempted tautological sounding argument just speaks about how we have not gotten critical thinking education right. And roads built for cars just so happen to be the legally mandated place to ride bikes in many locals. Of course roads build with only considering car travel and no secondary effects are optimized for cars over bikes. That’s exactly the problem, not a point in the favor of cars or for driving cars.
- fnimick 3y ago
  "Roads are for cars, not for bikes or people" You realize how stupid you sound, right?
tomxor 3y ago
I know what you mean, yet another tragedy of the commons. In the UK at least they are less common, I think it's partly a cultural thing, but I suspect road size and layout is also a significant factor, which negatively affects the practicality of actually driving and parking a big SUV over here. I'm pretty sure that's why they will always remain uncommon, and haven't kicked off a chain reaction like in the US. I think that's the only way you can prevent this kind of arms race in a society, by designing aspects into the system that reduce socially undesirable properties by making those same properties less desirable to the individual, intrinsically - i.e I don't want an SUV, because it's going to be so damn annoying to drive and park in so many places (note how that affects all individuals regardless of wealth). The same works with speed, using intrinsic speed limitations due to road size and layout instead of extrinsic punishment which doesn't effectively prevent injury or death. If the appropriate speed is 30mph, don't build a 6 lane style highway and be surprised when people find it hard to stay under 80. I think so many of the societal issues caused by cars can be all but eliminated through road design.
- philjw 3y ago
  It's slowly getting to Europe though. Every second car being sold in Germany nowadays is an SUV, there is barely anything affordable below the 15k EUR mark - most of them are probably on a lease. I'm just wondering, what's going to be next... Tanks again? Best example I guess is Ford who discontinued its Ford Ka and Fiesta because "they wanted to focus on EVs" - on the other hand they introduced the F150 to Germany. Not the most honest move. I'd argue 80% of customers are sheeple following whatever is advertised on TV / parked in the neighbours driveway. I used to enjoy cars but with the climate crisis and just by how automotive attempts to innovate these days, I cancelled this entire industry. Gonna get a Bullitt Cargobike soon
- fnimick 3y ago
  Yup. The problem in the US as a recent study pointed out is that the private benefit of owning an SUV is greater than the public benefit - basically, it's shifting cost and the risk from the person to society at large. I'm not sure how you fix it, considering that pretty much every proposal to narrow a road, add a bike lane, add a bus lane, increase registration fees etc around here is treated like you're trying to bring back Hitler. It's so frustrating.
throw310822 3y ago
Same reason for why a lot of people seem to think it's a good idea to have a gun in the US. Everybody else (including criminals) already has one. It's an arms race that just leaves everyone worse off than at the start.
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  Name a point in USA’s 240 year history that private gun ownership was not common.
  - olddustytrail 3y ago
    What percentage do you consider common? And if you're interested why don't you do some digging and give a graph of gun ownership over those 240 years. It might actually be interesting.
    - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
      Go ahead an school me. I can't wait for the sources from one of Bloomberg's antigun groups, or out of the wing of Harvard he funds for the same effect. PLEASE make it something from Hemmenway, I do so love his flavor of "science". Gun ownership has always been common. I didn't say more or less common than any point to compare to. We're lucky it's more common now than in previous points in history. You just don't know it yet.
      - olddustytrail 3y ago
        Firstly, weapons ownership of any kind is much lower than it was historically in my country, and yet we survive. Secondly, I have no interest in schooling you. You're an American, right? No free education for you. Pay for it! Thirdly, I was being serious. Do you actually know what the data look like or are you guessing?
- porkbeer 3y ago
  Citation desprately needed. Please dont conflate your politics and firearms issues, which should be distinct.
jacquesm 3y ago
That's a fantastic response. And yes, that's exactly how it is. It's safer. For them.
- rahen 3y ago
  It's safer as in "whatever I hit, I win". A pretty narrow definition of safety.
  - demondemidi 3y ago
    Not really winning if an F150 hits my fiat 500x. The f150 loses everything in a vehicular manslaughter trial. It’s more a lose-lose.
    - demondemidi 3y ago
      [flagged]
throw9away6 3y ago
And that’s all fine and dandy until 30% of the theater is standing and then what are you going to do? Pick your poison

DiggyJohnson 3y ago

Do you really say that? I take your point, but the metaphor is ridiculous because the view isn’t even better standing up, and it’s rare to find oneself in such a situation - let alone to find oneself in such a situation and choose to be confrontational.

tcfhgj 3y ago
Actually I have had such situations often, when the head of a person in front obscures a part of the view
pmg102 3y ago
Things changed very rapidly in the seventies with the oil shock, I believe. Cars suddenly shrank. Noone wanted big old bloated barges. Maybe something similar will happen again, ie energy will become expensive.

thepasswordis 3y ago

Do you seriously say this? I cannot imagine how insufferable it would be to hear this from somebody. I have kids and I don't care how my SUV makes you feel. Riding a bike is a cool hobby, and my family and I own tons of bikes that we take on the awesome bike paths they have all over our town. Bikes are also a great way to exercise. But they don't really belong on roads. Taking a bike a place it isn't mean to go, then complaining about how unfit for the bike that place is, is absurd. You aren't supposed to stand up in a movie theater. You are supposed to drive your car on the streets that we build specifically for driving cars.

Dylan16807 3y ago
> I have kids and I don't care how my SUV makes you feel. Okay, but you should be aware that everyone with an SUV increases the danger to everyone else's kids. > But they don't really belong on roads. Taking a bike a place it isn't mean to go, then complaining about how unfit for the bike that place is, is absurd. Bikes have to share roads almost everywhere, and big cars are also bad at pedestrian safety. > You aren't supposed to stand up in a movie theater. You are supposed to drive your car on the streets that we build specifically for driving cars. You're supposed to have a car, you're not supposed to have an oversized one.
- fnimick 3y ago
  Oh, they know, but they don't care. Their kids are in the SUV and they're fine. If your kids are outside the SUV and get run over, that's not their problem.
  - thepasswordis 3y ago
    [flagged]
- mint2 3y ago
  > You are supposed to drive your car on the streets that we build specifically for driving cars. These types of statements illustrate the lack of cognition the average person employees versus parroting words. This superficial and attempted tautological sounding argument just speaks about how we have not gotten critical thinking education right. And roads built for cars just so happen to be the legally mandated place to ride bikes in many locals. Of course roads build with only considering car travel and no secondary effects are optimized for cars over bikes. That’s exactly the problem, not a point in the favor of cars or for driving cars.
fnimick 3y ago
"Roads are for cars, not for bikes or people" You realize how stupid you sound, right?

tomxor 3y ago

I know what you mean, yet another tragedy of the commons. In the UK at least they are less common, I think it's partly a cultural thing, but I suspect road size and layout is also a significant factor, which negatively affects the practicality of actually driving and parking a big SUV over here. I'm pretty sure that's why they will always remain uncommon, and haven't kicked off a chain reaction like in the US. I think that's the only way you can prevent this kind of arms race in a society, by designing aspects into the system that reduce socially undesirable properties by making those same properties less desirable to the individual, intrinsically - i.e I don't want an SUV, because it's going to be so damn annoying to drive and park in so many places (note how that affects all individuals regardless of wealth). The same works with speed, using intrinsic speed limitations due to road size and layout instead of extrinsic punishment which doesn't effectively prevent injury or death. If the appropriate speed is 30mph, don't build a 6 lane style highway and be surprised when people find it hard to stay under 80. I think so many of the societal issues caused by cars can be all but eliminated through road design.

philjw 3y ago
It's slowly getting to Europe though. Every second car being sold in Germany nowadays is an SUV, there is barely anything affordable below the 15k EUR mark - most of them are probably on a lease. I'm just wondering, what's going to be next... Tanks again? Best example I guess is Ford who discontinued its Ford Ka and Fiesta because "they wanted to focus on EVs" - on the other hand they introduced the F150 to Germany. Not the most honest move. I'd argue 80% of customers are sheeple following whatever is advertised on TV / parked in the neighbours driveway. I used to enjoy cars but with the climate crisis and just by how automotive attempts to innovate these days, I cancelled this entire industry. Gonna get a Bullitt Cargobike soon
fnimick 3y ago
Yup. The problem in the US as a recent study pointed out is that the private benefit of owning an SUV is greater than the public benefit - basically, it's shifting cost and the risk from the person to society at large. I'm not sure how you fix it, considering that pretty much every proposal to narrow a road, add a bike lane, add a bus lane, increase registration fees etc around here is treated like you're trying to bring back Hitler. It's so frustrating.

throw310822 3y ago

Same reason for why a lot of people seem to think it's a good idea to have a gun in the US. Everybody else (including criminals) already has one. It's an arms race that just leaves everyone worse off than at the start.

SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
Name a point in USA’s 240 year history that private gun ownership was not common.
- olddustytrail 3y ago
  What percentage do you consider common? And if you're interested why don't you do some digging and give a graph of gun ownership over those 240 years. It might actually be interesting.
  - SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
    Go ahead an school me. I can't wait for the sources from one of Bloomberg's antigun groups, or out of the wing of Harvard he funds for the same effect. PLEASE make it something from Hemmenway, I do so love his flavor of "science". Gun ownership has always been common. I didn't say more or less common than any point to compare to. We're lucky it's more common now than in previous points in history. You just don't know it yet.
    - olddustytrail 3y ago
      Firstly, weapons ownership of any kind is much lower than it was historically in my country, and yet we survive. Secondly, I have no interest in schooling you. You're an American, right? No free education for you. Pay for it! Thirdly, I was being serious. Do you actually know what the data look like or are you guessing?
porkbeer 3y ago
Citation desprately needed. Please dont conflate your politics and firearms issues, which should be distinct.

jacquesm 3y ago

That's a fantastic response. And yes, that's exactly how it is. It's safer. For them.

rahen 3y ago
It's safer as in "whatever I hit, I win". A pretty narrow definition of safety.
- demondemidi 3y ago
  Not really winning if an F150 hits my fiat 500x. The f150 loses everything in a vehicular manslaughter trial. It’s more a lose-lose.
  - demondemidi 3y ago
    [flagged]

throw9away6 3y ago

And that’s all fine and dandy until 30% of the theater is standing and then what are you going to do? Pick your poison