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I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numb

I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. But most germane, The "Battery meter" at the top of the display is total bunk. That's got to be "rosy" numbers. It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. However if you punch in a destination, you'll get exact numbers, and those are insanely reliable. It claims (and I don't believe any claims coming from tesla) that it'll factor wind, elevation, temperature, etc. But regardless of what it factors in, it's on the money.

bdcravens 3y ago
My EV6 reports a range that it also a loose estimate, but it seems based on recent driving behavior (ie, I was driving free and loose recently, so I may end up getting way more miles than it says, and vice versa)
londons_explore 3y ago
Battery meter at the top is EPA range - ie. the official range measurement method, in basically ideal conditions. The routefinder 'learns' from your previous driving habits. Driving style easily has a 50% impact on range between "drives 50 mph slipstreaming behind a truck" and "drives 90 mph and brakes aggressively at every corner".
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  I thought braking aggressively increases range.
  - jackmott42 3y ago
    if you brake too aggressively then you will use brake pads as well as regen, and that wastes energy. Also, its still better to arrange to not need to brake at all, than to regen, since regen is not 100% efficient.
  - goshx 3y ago
    Not if you use the break pedal
  - tialaramex 3y ago
    No? Accelerating and decelerating are both lossy, and for the brief intervals when you're going faster you're also taking additional wind friction loss. Most EVs (including Tesla) do have regenerative braking, so some of your energy is converted back into electricity when you brake, but nowhere close to all of it, so people who have a smoother, less aggressive profile will get more range. Also if you brake really aggressively, you're dissipating more energy than can be successfully harvested and the rest is converted to heat, losing the energy you paid for and also increasing maintenance costs.
    - lotsofpulp 3y ago
      I see, thanks for explaining!
  - b0sk 3y ago
    Braking doesn't increase range. Rather the natural foot off pedal regen braking increases range. If you physically slam on brakes, I'm sure that doesn't help range.
    - martin8412 3y ago
      That's a Tesla problem. They couldn't figure out blended braking. If I press the brake hard in my car, the regen goes to max possible.
      - mint2 3y ago
        That is an accurate meter, it is not a Tesla problem. My PHEV works the same way, but that fact isn’t really relevant. The meter is presenting you the regeneration “rate” but what you’re thinking of is the regen rate integrated over time, I.e the amount of charge recovered during the process of stopping, which the meter is not showing you.
        martin8412 3y ago
        Maybe, I don't really care about regenerative rate, I just notice my meter going to max when braking hard. I only use the battery for city driving and hard acceleration on the motorway anyway. It's great for merging onto the Spanish motorways.
        mint2 3y ago
        But the comment showed you do care, you brought it up and pay attention to it. It’s all that the meter shows that you mentioned.
      - sib 3y ago
        I'm sure that if you "slam on the brakes" (per GP), your car will take region to the max and the apply the real friction brakes, causing lots of kinetic energy to be converted to heat and "wasting" energy... (Also, Tesla cars do have blended braking between region & friction...)
  - 0xfae 3y ago
    What? How did you arrive at that conclusion. Even if the laws of thermodynamics and entropy took a holiday, and you recovered 100% of the energy when you brake, at best you would break even and not hurt your range (vs not braking aggressively). Regen breaking increases range over no regen braking, but braking aggressively will always be worse than not braking aggressively.
  - _jal 3y ago
    Yep. That's why I just leave a brick on the brake pedal. Infinite range!
  - idlewords 3y ago
    You can also recharge the battery by going in reverse, a solution I'm baffled more people don't know about.
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  When you say “learns” is it actually factoring in the route or is it just using the historical average miles per… what, kWh, and multiplying it across the distance
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    Haven't seen the code, so I don't know how it works. It certainly looks at the route though, because different destinations both 100 miles away give different estimated power usages.
  - stetrain 3y ago
    When you use the navigation system in a Tesla, the estimated energy usage for that trip takes into account the specific route, your projected speed, elevation changes, traffic, temperature, wind, and adjusts based on what speeds you actually end up going.
- jackmott42 3y ago
  EPA range is a mix of city and highway range. City range is > highway range, thus EPA range will over estimate highway range and underestimate city range.
- cowsandmilk 3y ago
  No reason it has to show the EPA range. My family’s Subaru has “learned” that it lives in the mountains and the range estimates reflect that. And I’m pretty sure it’s a simply looking at what kind of gas mileage it got recently. When we have kayaks on top of the car, it readjusts the mileage estimates down pretty quickly. All these comments about ICE vehicles being the same ignore that when ICE vehicles have estimates to empty, they take basic steps to try to get the estimate correct.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - ComputerGuru 3y ago
    Same with my VW.
  - mulmen 3y ago
    My BMW even calculates "alternates". When I have under 50 miles of range it checks the internal (no Internet service needed) database and offers a route to the nearest known gas station.
  - patd 3y ago
    With your system, if I live somewhere flat and I go to the mountains, I will be out of juice during the climb. Tesla has a battery indicator in percentage and the navigation which is pretty accurate. Your ICE car has a gauge for the tank and an estimation of range. Tesla should probably not allow you to show the battery as range as it will always be inaccurate and people will complain. But if they only show percentages, people complain as well.
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  "Battery meter at the top is EPA range - ie. the official range measurement method, in basically ideal conditions." I guess I'm flabbergasted by this, as that's not how my Chevy Volt (and I presume many other BEVs) work. The range value ('guessimeter' people call it) on my Volt takes something like a rolling average of your last few drives and that's what it shows you. So if it's winter, it shows you less range because your last few drives had less efficiency. It's not always accurate (if there's, say, major temp fluctuations), but it's way more useful than what you're describing. To me, what you're describing is borderline dishonest marketing, and technically unnecessary. What I'd like to see is two numbers: estimated range as I've described, and beside it a kWh # (which I can guesstimate from the battery % gauge visual, but not precise). EDIT: Not sure why car manufacturers in general hide the kWh remaining-capacity of the battery so much. They seem to think consumers are too stupid to understand such technical terms? But they're clearly aware of it every time they use a public charger, and it's the closest equivalent to litres/gallons in an ICE.
  - stetrain 3y ago
    Tesla has the guess-o-meter based on recent driving, it’s just on a separate Energy page. I leave the dashboard meter set to percent because the “miles” option is just the dumb EPA rated range mapped to percent anyway. The real way to predict range in a Tesla is to use the nav system which takes many factors into account and has been very accurate in my experience.
- Merad 3y ago
  There's no reason why Tesla can't calculate the accurate range in both places, is there? My 2022 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid has a "distance to empty" number that "learns" based on your driving habits and typical mileage. It's not perfect, for example going on a road trip can throw it off (the hybrid gets significantly lower highway MPG than around town), but most of the time it's very accurate.
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    Yeah, there's no reason they couldn't do that, and most other BEVs do that. The fact that Tesla doesn't is I'd say, disappointing? and likely to give EVs a bad name in the long run. But could also reflect that this is a California company where they don't really have weather.
    - ldbooth 3y ago
      Drive from from Sacramento to Tahoe in the winter... There's weather, and tons of ice/snow at elevation. Many here complain about how inaccurate Tesla's range calcs are driving to Tahoe. It's not the state, it's the amoral response to incentives.
  - stetrain 3y ago
    They do have a range estimate based on recent driving, it’s just in a separate Energy page. “Accurate range” is difficult. It could be accurate based on recent driving, but that number could be very inaccurate if there is a change in weather or you are taking a different kind of drive than your last one.
    - steveBK123 3y ago
      Probably showing range in 3 different places that don't really agree is bad right? We are HN tech crowd here so its all fun & games hobbyist stuff. But normies do not want to get into these types of inane subtleties. Arguably the front & center, always-there range display should be the most accurate, not the least accurate.
- cevn 3y ago
  It really does not learn. I have driven the same route to and from Richmond, VA as a range test over and over again since 2018. My range is approx. 180 miles, in favorable conditions (summer, AC off). If it was actually accurate, as soon as you hit 70-80mph you would see your range half. Clearly that doesn't happen, so the estimator is off by ~40% for highway conditions, i.e. complete bullshit.
  - stetrain 3y ago
    Are you talking about the battery meter? That is just EPA range * battery percentage. The precise estimate is in the navigation system, when you navigate to a destination and it says you will arrive with X% left. This takes into account speed, traffic, elevation, temperature, wind, etc. and is usually pretty accurate for me.
    - cevn 3y ago
      Ah I see. I will check on that but you would think that as soon as you get on the highway that estimator would change. It is also the first place someone would look for range, not inside navigation so I would call that false advertising…
      - stetrain 3y ago
        I leave the battery meter set to percentage, the “miles” option is really just percentage dumbly mapped to miles. The golden number in a Tesla Is absolutely the navigation route estimate. While navigating you can open the Energy app as well to see more detail, how you are doing compared to the estimate, and specific factors affecting consumption.
        cevn 3y ago
        I also use percentage. It's not something that I usually think about. I just know that my "real range" is 180 miles at highway speeds. That's not something they tell you when you buy a Tesla. I also just don't use navigation if I've been somewhere more than once. Just navigate with my head..
- nicpottier 3y ago
  I think it's basically some PM taking a stand at Tesla with the fact that there's just no good estimate possible without knowing the route, so they will always show EPA estimate. Any sane a Tesla driver changes that to show percent battery instead of range. As others have said the trip planner is excellent, within a percent or two even in winter conditions driving over passes etc.. Note that range changes a lot more due to elevation, speed, cold etc, compared to gas cars because electrics are so much more efficient.
  - blake929 3y ago
    The article says it was a mandate from Elon Musk. Not sure I believe the claim, but I'd also be surprised if he wasn't aware just how optimistic the EPA estimate is.
  - bumby 3y ago
    My initial thought is that it's a mitigation to litigation. Maybe the thought was as long as you show the "legal" mileage calculation, you can't be held responsible for anything bad that happens? I don't think we apply that to ICE but I could see where a lawyer thinks it's necessary.
    - moduspol 3y ago
      I think you need to give consumers some vague idea of how much range you'll get in the car, and EPA-rated miles is at least a clear standard by which all EVs can be compared. A percentage indicator is fine for a car you already have, but not useful for comparing between cars. It could show kWh, but that isn't good, either. What consumers actually care about is range, and whether that comes from more kWh, better aerodynamics, or a lighter car, the range is the bottom-line number. We wouldn't want consumers buying a car with a bigger battery just because it has more kWh if it doesn't get better range. I think EPA-rated miles is the best of available options--it just needs to be understood by consumers. And I think cases where it isn't are a bit overstated. I suspect very few consumers genuinely believe they'll get the same range in miles regardless of their driving speed, headwinds, or whether they're going uphill or downhill.
- darth_avocado 3y ago
  I have a model 3. I recently took a trip of 196 miles but lost almost 270 miles in battery. I wasn’t driving like a maniac, I was on 65 mph cruise control the entire time with no traffic.
  - mint2 3y ago
    How were the Tires inflated? are they stock tires? are the rims the aero dynamic ones? were you using climate control, was their wind? Hills? Any roof cargo? All these have a big effects. Wind can easy be a 3mpg hit for my car, that’s about 10%. Not all the difference but a couple stacked effects could get yours Annoying all these things matter when range is constrained. Next gen batteries can’t come soon enough.
    - itsoktocry 3y ago
      >How were the Tires inflated? are they stock tires? are the rims the aero dynamic ones? were you using climate control, was their wind? Hills? Any roof cargo? All these have a big effects. True. But none of this should matter if your Tesla actually "learns", as other comments claim, right?
- itsoktocry 3y ago
  >The routefinder 'learns' from your previous driving habits. I'd like to see evidence of this, but I'm skeptical. Sounds like something Tesla fans claim is happening, like when you report an error at an intersection it gets fixed manually. And, even if true, I'm not sure how useful it'd be.
PhilipA 3y ago
I had a Tesla Model 3 which was very optimistic with the range. My BMW iX3 however is quite conservative and I can usually drive longer than the display states.
- wil421 3y ago
  We don’t have the iX3 in the US (yet?). I was looking at the x5 plug in hybrid with ~40 miles electric range and the normal b58 straight 6 motor. My wife has the X7, we have 3 kids and hobbies so I’m not sure if even an i5 would work. The new X5 headlights are not my favorite. Do you like the BMW electric system?
  - herodotus 3y ago
    I have the 330e Hybrid Plug in. The electric range on a full charge varies from about 28km to 44km (17-27 miles). When I do my usual around town driving, I never need to go off all-electric, so this range works perfectly for me. The range shown on the dash is slightly conservative. For example, I can get from suburban Vancouver to SFU (on top of Burnaby mountain), a distance of 24km with a couple of kilometres still showing, but I can get back home using only about 50% of the reported range. The up-hill portion of the drive versus the down-hill return journey makes a big difference. When I recharge at home (using Level 2), the reported "full" values range from 28km to 44km. I cannot figure out why there is such a big range.
  - matthewdgreen 3y ago
    The X5 hybrid is a wonderful car to drive, but as an EV it's... not good. You get less than 1/10th the range of a full Tesla Model Y (< 30 miles), using a battery that's 1/3rd the capacity. I assume some of the lost efficiency is due to the X5's higher curb weight, but it's only about ~1200lbs heavier (4,416 vs. 5,646 pounds) which doesn't seem to justify a 3x efficiency difference. The BMW also includes a tiny 16A charger, whereas the old i3 had a 32A charger. This limits charging to ~3 range-miles per hour, making public chargers basically pointless (again compare to the LR Tesla Model Y which has a 48A charger and can add 40+ range-miles in an hour.) In gas-only hybrid mode, the mileage is ~19 MPG, which is actually kind of offensive for a hybrid car.
aaomidi 3y ago
[flagged]
- AuthorizedCust 3y ago
  You have it backwards. The car serves you. You should not have to serve the car (beyond universal, traditional things, like the need to maintain, insure, etc.). It’s reasonable to ask for a range estimate that’s not naively optimistic.
  - tekla 3y ago
    It is not naively optimistic. I just finished a 2500 mile drive with a Tesla Y and its estimates are pretty much within 1-2% of my actual usage.
    - HWR_14 3y ago
      As the article (or another poster) points out, you get a different algorithm when you look at the dash on a random day vs. when the Tesla knows you are going on a trip. That's even more damning to me. Edit: Also a different algorithm when below 50% charged. As some of the replies point out, a destination does supply more information. The current charge level does not.
      - tekla 3y ago
        How does the Tesla know I'm going on a trip? Are you implying its strange that the Tesla can calculate a more accurate range estimate when you literally tell it where you want to go to its computer which can use map data to calculate energy usage, versus you just driving around in circles in a arbitrary area and the computer only can assume based on EPA average usage?
        rootusrootus 3y ago
        It doesn’t use average usage to calculate the remaining range, it uses EPA numbers which are 200 Wh/mi or less. Which, interestingly, is less than the consumption shown on the Monroney sticker. How they can show two contradictory numbers on the same official document is fascinating to me.
WatchDog 3y ago
Seems like it’s common across all EVs for the range to be inflated by around 20%, at least for freeway driving. In a recent review, a Tesla did a slightly better job than most of the cars tested, as far as portion of stated range achieved. https://youtu.be/fvwOa7TCd1E&t=36m15s https://youtu.be/fvwOa7TCd1E&t=36m15s
- antisthenes 3y ago
  > Seems like it’s common across all EVs for the range to be inflated by around 20%, at least for freeway driving. Most people speed on the freeway. Extra speed reduces range significantly.
  - Y_Y 3y ago
    IMHO comments like this are much more valuable with some numbers. The linked figure[0] and associated paper report that efficiency peaks for EVs at around 20mph and then the cost per mile increases roughly linearly, by about 25 watt-hours when the speed increases by 10mph. Please excuse the archaic units. [0] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/ehicle-energy-economy-at-different-speeds_fig1_326822085 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/ehicle-energy-economy-at...
    - vel0city 3y ago
      The Tesla Roadster is an absolutely ancient EV.
  - Y-bar 3y ago
    This. And it is true of petrol cars as well. In my old clunker going from 110 km/h to 120km/h is a 9% speed increase but nets about 15% extra fuel consumption.
    - JimtheCoder 3y ago
      Is this with the windows up or windows down...?
wintermutestwin 3y ago
I know someone who bought an early Leaf to get to work and back. The stated range was 107 miles and their commute was 35 miles each way. The problem was that there was >2000 feet of elevation change.
- vel0city 3y ago
  I don't quite get this. It was a round-trip thing right, like the overall net elevation change at the end of the day was 0, right? All that energy was stored as potential energy, they'd get it back rolling down the mountain. To my understanding a round-trip it shouldn't have made that much of an impact.
  - stetrain 3y ago
    Regen braking is not 100% efficient, closer to 70-80%. So climbing a mountain and then going down the other side does cost more net energy than driving the same distance on flat ground. Also if the elevation change is such that you don’t have enough to get to the top, the amount you would regen on the way down doesn’t matter.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      This isn't a question of regen braking through. > climbing a mountain and then going down the other side does cost more net energy than driving the same distance on flat ground. You say this, but your reasoning is regen braking? What if you never had to brake the entire way? Where did all the energy going going up the hill go? If I carry a sack of sand up a hill and drop it, the amount of energy it has falling is equal to the amount of energy lifting it up the hill. Why does this then magically change when that sack of sand is now a car?
      - CorrectHorseBat 3y ago
        Without any resistance or breaking you are correct, but in real life you do have to break. Non constant speed also makes it worse because resistance is not linear.
Astronaut3315 3y ago
I also have a Model Y- it’s our family’s only vehicle. We love almost everything about it. Tip: tap the range estimate to switch it to percent. The EPA estimate is meaningless. Yes, that should be improved.
gt565k 3y ago
ICE vehicles have lower range as well when going uphill or exceeding the optimal speed and increasing air drag. The estimates are based on driving on a flat road at the speed limit. Even my Lexus SUV can get 24mpg driving on 35-45mph roads vs 16-19 in the city or going to the mountains where elevation increases. People's understanding of range is just not quite there yet whether it's for an ICE vehicle or an EV.
brianwawok 3y ago
Switch to %. I know how far % will go. Very simple. The miles is a PR stunt.
syntaxing 3y ago
Not defending Tesla but battery range is really hard without context. Kinetic energy is velocity^2, which means moving twice the speed takes 4X the energy. They probably can get the right estimate for a destination because it knows the speed limit for the route and using that as your velocity can give you a better answer.
- cevn 3y ago
  They could, but they don’t. Edit: someone else pointed out if you actually navigate then it will show remaining % more accurately. Still seems like false advertising..
  - tekla 3y ago
    How is it false advertising.
    - cevn 3y ago
      I don't use navigation, almost ever, after the first place I go somewhere. Therefore, the main battery estimator is just wrong. If it actually worked, as soon as you got to highway speeds you would see it half. Hiding the real estimation behind the navigation tool is cowardly
      - tekla 3y ago
        How is that any different from a ICE car? How is the car supposed to know how much energy you might be using in the future? Last time I checked, no ICE car has the ability to predict the future.
        brazzledazzle 3y ago
        The distance left in the tank is closer to the Tesla's more accurate estimate because it's constantly adjusting based on both your current gas level as well as your current energy efficiency. It may not accurately convey the distance available at the start of a trip but you're going to know well ahead of time if you're burn rate is too high. If the non-navigation distance estimate in a Tesla is always padded you could find out well after it's too late to make it to your destination or a charging station.
huijzer 3y ago
> I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. Can you tell more about this? I'm curious.
- thehappypm 3y ago
  I absolutely love my Model Y. I do long road trips all the time with it. Best car I’ve owned ever by a mile.
  - Lendal 3y ago
    I would recommend a Tesla to anyone, but not the FSD option. Don't waste your money on the FSD option, and you're fine. It's an expensive car that's super cheap to drive. The motors are basically zero maintenance. The battery will likely last the rest of my life. The interior is not too luxurious but decent. The seats are surprisingly durable and comfortable. No reason to sell it ever, unless you just get bored easily.
    - thehappypm 3y ago
      I just use AutoSteer and it is pretty awesome. It’s cruise control in its final form!
malwrar 3y ago
I actually got stranded once for some hours because of the mileage indicator! Was driving back from a campsite that I turned out to not have charging compatibility with, but thought I had plenty of margin to get to the nearest charger. As I drove through the mountains however, I began noticing that a.) my battery was depleting much faster than expected and b.) I wasn’t seeing any houses and very few motorists. I watched with increasing dread as the trip miles began converging with the battery miles, as my friends in the car got more and more quiet. We reached the inflection point, and the best I could do was hope we’d encounter somewhere with a plug that might be able to get us the rest of the way. Eventually though the milage indicator reached zero, and I pulled off the road to what I thought was a campsite but turned out to be a sort of rest stop with no power plugs in sight. To make matters worse I was in a mountain valley and had no phone signal, and hiking wasn’t an option as it was pretty hot and we had no water. We were there for hours until I was able to flag down a nice older couple and get a ride to a place with cell signal, where I was able to get a tow truck capable of transporting my car (turns out you need one that has a full bed because of the regenerative breaking, and tesla’s service doesn’t have infinite coverage) to the charger I was trying to get to. Ironically that last part was probably the most frustrating. The charging spot was full save one spot in the back, which my tow truck guy Mel couldn’t get back to. No sweat I thought, I’ll just try asking someone to swap, but people in their cars pretended to ignore me, and one couple leaving theirs just walked away, as I asked if they could move so we could unload my dead car. Had a sudden wave of empathy for the people I usually walk away from who ask me for spare change lol. Eventually someone left and I was able to charge and resume the 6 hour road trip home. Biggest lesson learned was that slow is fast, keep it at 60 if you want the milage meter to not die as quick.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > it was pretty hot and we had no water. Another take-home lesson: if you're driving out of range of civilization, carry water along with your first aid supplies.
  - squarefoot 3y ago
    This a hundred times. Years ago, on a hot summer day, my girlfriend and I were stranded on the highway after a big truck overturned blocking the entire driveway. We were on my then motorcycle, but couldn't drive in any directions as the next exit was way beyond the overturned truck and it was blocked cars everywhere. We were extremely lucky I brought a couple frozen water plastic bottles in the bags, so although we had to wait until dark (6-7 hours) before they could eventually free the highway, we never went out of water. Since that episode, I always took at least one plastic bottle of frozen water when doing motorcycle trips.
dubeye 3y ago
The obvious question is why don't you sell the car if you hate everything about it. Sunk cost and all that
newZWhoDis 3y ago
This is not a hard concept, and it’s rather surprising that this of all things is what you have issue with. The battery icon is Miles of rated range, where “rated” means flat windless road at 60MPH and 70 degrees. Call it “standard” range if you will. The car has no idea where you’re going so it uses the standard calculation. When you set a destination it can now (and does) factor in elevation change, speed on given roads, wind speed, wind direction, temperature along the route, etc etc etc and is more accurate. So your least favorite feature is one you openly admit to not using properly? If you want laser precise range estimation set a destination ffs. Or, if you’re like most drivers you start every day with 200-300mi of range and unless you’re going out of state you don’t even think about range.
Lendal 3y ago
While there are things to hate on with Tesla cars, range is not one of them. I have a Model Y and for the most part I like it. I plug it in when it needs charging. What's so hard about that? I've been on several 6000+ mile journeys across the country and never had a problem, even out west where charging is more sparse. The thing I hate most about my car is that I spent $10K on "Full Self Driving" and rarely use it. It totally sucks and is definitely the worst $10K I've ever spent on anything. That money could have gone to a nice vacation somewhere and I would be happy about that. But no, every time I try out the FSD, I come away disappointed.
- pilingual 3y ago
  What was your thought process when you spent $10,000 on "FSD?"
  - Lendal 3y ago
    I thought it would be cool. I didn't consider the fact I don't actually like it when someone else is driving. I don't like being a passenger even if a person I trust is driving, so why would an AI be different? Apparently I like to drive more than I thought I did. Also, I didn't realize how many restrictions there would be. You have to keep your hands applying constant tension on the steering wheel, and there's actually a camera that watches your eyes now. So you can't even eat a sandwich without the car freaking out and punishing you for looking at your food too long.
    - aydyn 3y ago
      You can just play games on your phone, or take a quick power nap (don't forget to set a timer!) It's awesome!
      - bsagdiyev 3y ago
        Get the fuck off the road with that attitude. You're why people die.
tehwebguy 3y ago
We rented one on a trip recently, super annoying to realize the dozen or so chargers in this beach town were actually incompatible or just too slow for real life. On the way back to the drop off autopilot tried to slam us into the Bentley next us! It had been traveling the same direction as us for like 20 minutes and when we passed through an intersection it just jerked hard left and I had to correct it manually. Possible injuries notwithstanding I’m sure that would have surpassed my insurance coverage, which I’ve intentionally gone way above minimums on.
- capableweb 3y ago
  > It had been traveling the same direction as us for like 20 minutes and when we passed through an intersection it just jerked hard left and I had to correct it manually. Even if this and many other stories are just anecdotes, I could never imagine myself even testing this "auto-but-not-really-pilot" feature outside of a testing environment. How do you folks dare to even try to use it? The risk is so big and the reward so tiny...
  - suction 3y ago
    [dead]
  - tehwebguy 3y ago
    With hands still on the wheel so I knew it couldn’t override me. Until that moment it just felt like the car drove “video game straight” with it on, instead of me making never ending micro corrections to account for things like the road, wind, tires. But after that no thanks.
- concordDance 3y ago
  > We rented one on a trip recently, super annoying to realize the dozen or so chargers in this beach town were actually incompatible or just too slow for real life. Where were you that has a dozen chargers but no superchargers?
  - tehwebguy 3y ago
KingOfCoders 3y ago
"I hate almost everything about it." Not owning a car only using rentals, I still think Tesla has the best and most intuitive UI. I can find everything easily, whereas in a SUVs from Skoda/VW/Audi/BMW/Renault/... it's hard to find things - at least for me. What I do hate about the Model Ys we rented is the noise! Wind/wheel noise is as loud at 100km/h as a BMW at 150km/h - I guess they do this to safe weight and increase range, but it makes the trips very unpleasant. Also how it randomly breaks in self driving (at least on a German Autobahn).
- ethanbond 3y ago
  > I guess they to this to safe weight and increase range, but it makes the trips very unpleasant. Or, you know, margins.
- croes 3y ago
  >the best and most intuitive UI I think the best UI was before all the computer displays in cars. Everything operable without visual contact.
  - KingOfCoders 3y ago
    I disagree. Because we seldom have the same car twice, I always need to decipher some strange icons to find out what something does. Or how to operate the wipers. It might work better if you know it b/c of tactile feedback, but it's in no way intuitive.
    - croes 3y ago
      The icons problem isn't any different now, but now the icons are hidden in different sub menus. All that without the benefit of tactile feedback of knobs and switches.
      - KingOfCoders 3y ago
        There is no icon but a text, "Turn AC on"
samwillis 3y ago
The solution is to not show miles on the basic battery meter, just percentage. Maybe show a rage next to it - 130-160 miles. But that too honest. ICE cars all show a percentage, and maybe additionally a mileage on newer cars. The fact that they threw that away is a little silly.
- tshaddox 3y ago
  I also prefer the battery meter to show percentage simply to reduce range anxiety. Even if the mileage estimate was accurate, I’d rather not constantly be calculating how many miles I think I might need to drive before the next charge.
- sib 3y ago
  If you tap the miles indicator, it changes to percent.
- jotux 3y ago
  >The fact that they threw that away is a little silly. You state this as a fact, but it's completely incorrect. It has been an option since at least 2018 to change the indicator to percentage.
koolba 3y ago
What does the regular display claim to represent? Coasting on a flat surface at 35mph with a positive tailwind?
rsynnott 3y ago
> I hate almost everything about it. By convention, you are required to phrase this as "I love my Tesla, but..."
aoweijrti 3y ago
I make EVs at a different company, and I'm not a fan of Tesla's range indicator. It's misleading because miles don't map directly onto battery charge. The range that that indicates is miles on flat level ground with no wind at 55mph which you will never experience in real life. At 80mph you're going to get 2/3 of that range every time. At 35mph you can get significantly higher range, but no one is ever going to drive 300+ miles at 35mph. If you just tap on the range icon it will change to percent, which is less misleading. ICE vehicles have all the same problems, but most ICE vehicles always just show gas level, rather than range.
- martin8412 3y ago
  My PHEV VW car shows range which is estimated based on the petrol level and the battery charge. I learned this the hard way because I noticed my petrol tank was very very close to empty driving on the motorway. I simply engaged fully electric mode, which turns off the petrol engine, and that way made it to the fueling station. It sort of learns based on the immediately previous drive what the driving style is, and therefore what the range is.
- m463 3y ago
  > but no one is ever going to drive 300+ miles at 35mph but I have driven 35mph on slow city streets to make it to the next charging station when the one I was at was full with a line. (years ago)
philistine 3y ago
Shenanigans like that is how you end up with regulations on what car can display in terms of range. This is similar to how we ended up with strict rules on MPG when purchasing.
nunez 3y ago
It's the same problem as displaying the battery percentage on your phone. you're more inclined to look at it, and will be more anxious when that number drops. I wish Tesla would allow you to hide the battery percentage entirely (unless it drops below a threshold).
- 14u2c 3y ago
  Huh? Do you constantly stare at a car gas gauge too? Battery level is important information for planning your usage, with both phones and cars.
  - nunez 3y ago
    Yeah, when it's low!
concordDance 3y ago
> It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. Worth noting this is also common in ICE cars. Mine has it.
breakyerself 3y ago
I think the range is inflated, but I can get close to it by driving like an absolute grandpa. I think it's possible, but not realistic.
lurkervizzle 3y ago
Waited for 2 years for the new long range Tesla Model X and sold it within 3 months for exactly this reason. The range was a total fabrication - actual range for city driving was closer to 180 miles, not the claimed 300+. Complete sham.
cameronh90 3y ago
For what it's worth, I have a Nissan standard petrol car and it's pretty much the same. Every time I fill it up, it says I have 400 miles of range, then by the time I've driven about 300 miles, I've only got a few miles of range left. Interestingly the accuracy seems to get a lot better by the time I'm down to half a tank. I don't know if it's a sensor issue, or maybe my driving habits just change a lot when I have a full tank versus when I'm running low. The type of driving and time I'm driving can also make a huge difference to my trip MPG - some trips I average about 10MPG, others closer to 40MPG. Generally speaking, low speed but clear rural roads get the best, followed by motorway, followed by pootering around the city. The absolute worst mileage is during the winter, when I might only be driving lots of short trips around town on a very cold engine, with the headlights on, in the rain. In that case, I might only get around 200 miles out of a tank. Anyway, my point is that knowing the specifics of this trip's fuel consumption is a much easier problem than knowing how many miles it'll be until you next need to refuel.
- wnissen 3y ago
  Yes, my Mazda does the same. It will happily report a 450 mile (725 km) range on my 13.2 gallon / 50 L tank, when I have never gotten more than 380 miles. Sometimes much less. To be fair, if you cruised slightly above the speed limit on the highway in fair conditions and drove it to truly empty, I think you would actually get that. But the gauge reads empty when there is easily 1.5 gal / 5.7 L in the tank, so in practice there is no way you're going to get the stated range. However, the key difference is that my gas car can be filled up anywhere, and worst case I'd need to get a gas can. Running out of charge is a flatbed tow, that's a huge hassle. The range being accurate is a big deal on an electric!
  - cameronh90 3y ago
    Here there are some vehicle recovery services where they can dispatch a van with a giant battery in it to charge your stranded EV enough to get to the next proper charger. Still more of a pain than a petrol can but better than a flatbed!
yayitswei 3y ago
This has been my experience as well. When there's a disparity, the Energy app gives additional details why the estimate was wrong (driving speed, climate control, etc).
chayesfss 3y ago
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01100011 3y ago
Rented a MY a couple months ago and was surprised how much I, and more surprisingly, my wife, hated it. Now, I despise Elon and the risky safety decisions of Tesla engineers, so I'm biased, but I wanted to give them a shot. Range was horrible. We drove about 100 miles and spent a couple hours over several sessions at superchargers. The handling and turning radius sucked. The controls were frighteningly distracting and confusing. Sound in the cabin seemed very weird, probably due to the glass roof and noise cancelling system. Finally, for a dual motor, I expected a lot more acceleration. I drove a Chevy Bolt for a year and was surprised how heavy and sluggish the MY felt.
- jayd16 3y ago
  You drive 100 miles and spent hours charging? That makes no sense. We're you towing something?
  - 01100011 3y ago
    Exactly. Nope, no towing. Drove about half those miles and spent about 45 minutes at a supercharger, then drove another 35 or so and spent a little over an hour at another one. In the second case I was trying to get to 90% so I could return the car above the 72% I picked it up at. We ran the A/C most of the time. I was driving pretty conservatively with about 50/50 highway/city streets. I did try to show off the acceleration abilities once but didn't fully floor it. It's possible that, being a rental(although fairly new) the battery had taken some charging abuse.
    - dzhiurgis 3y ago
      1h45m at supercharger, depending on charging curve, should result in 200-300 miles. So maybe you were just queueing at supercharger or something else doesn't check out at all.
      - 01100011 3y ago
        Queueing? Would the supercharger limit my charging time for some reason? I drove right up to an open charger every time, so I wasn't waiting in line.
waffletower 3y ago
I find the range numbers on my Model Y to be fairly accurate, when I choose and am able to drive at optimal speeds on level ground (which is the situation on some trips). 60-65 MPH is the commonly sighted range for the dual motor Model Y. The range does attempt to factor in heat pump usage, and I am unclear how accurate those adjustments are.
wilg 3y ago
I recommend tapping the battery meter to put it into percent instead of EPA miles (useless, misleading) and only estimate range using the trip planner, which is usually quite good.
mmustapic 3y ago
It is true that it's very accurate. I was on a trip that predicted 22% battery on arrival, and I had 21%. The last 5-10km were mostly descending down a valley, so lot of regeneration. Thus, when I arrived, 22%, as predicted.
beacham 3y ago
Bummer to hear you all don’t like it. I drove a RWD Long Range Model 3 for 4.5 years. Absolutely loved everything about it. But the range was no where near 310 miles like stated. But I couldn’t have really cared less once I knew that fact. The few times a year I needed more than 200 miles, I used superchargers on my route just like I would if I had 250-300 and had to wait an extra 2 minutes at the charger. I averaged ~300-325 wh/m going 80-90mph on the highway (wind speed/direction obviously makes a big difference). 75kwh battery. 230 mile range. Every other day was charge to 80%, incredibly convenient to never think about it or gas and have more torque, speed than any other car you’re around. And low to no maintenance. I now own a Long Range Model X. It is MUCH closer to the EPA mileage. I average ~330wh/m but I have a 100kwh battery, so much closer to a legitimate 300 mile range. Once again, doesn’t really make a different unless you happen to have an exact 275 mile trip. Either way, you’ll be stopping at a halfway supercharger to stay in optimal charge range (15-85%).
machdiamonds 3y ago
It's very easy to see how favorably or unfavorably Tesla's claimed range compares to competitors based on independent tests of multiple EVs in the same conditions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LWL90paufE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LWL90paufE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynCaTDR4rDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynCaTDR4rDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFB6hsYXDiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFB6hsYXDiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvwOa7TCd1E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvwOa7TCd1E Spoiler alert: Tesla models fare about as well, if not better, than their EV cousins, hitting around 80% of the stated range in the wild.
- strix_varius 3y ago
  > Spoiler alert: Tesla models fare about as well, if not better, than their EV cousins, hitting around 80% of the stated range in the wild. This is not true according to the very article we're discussing here, which across many analysis learned that three Tesla vehicles were the least-accurate (most-optimistic or most-deceptive, depending on your point of view).
chemmail 3y ago
There is a reason why the mileage estimate on EVS are called GOMS (guess o meters). They are like laptops, totally unreliable. They should really just stick to percentages. I don't think anyone really relies on the mileage left in gas cars, that mentality should be carried over to EVs. The number is really the fault of the EPA which uses a synthetic tests and allows manufacturers to just run with that.
sMarsIntruder 3y ago
If I hate something I would try to sell it immediately. Did you sell it? Otherwise it looks to me that your rant is just for karma collecting.
concordDance 3y ago
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/browseList.jsp https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/browseList.jsp Judging by this the EPA numbers it gives are accurate on average.
geekraver 3y ago
This is my experience too. If you plan your trip, it’s really good about predicting the % battery remaining. I never put it on miles display anymore; that’s evidently going to be inaccurate because it doesn’t take into account many other factors. But if I enter in a route, now it actually has something to go on and can do a good job.
AtlasBarfed 3y ago
It's what drives me nuts about "300 miles is more than enough". Consider: - batteries lose, best case, about 10-20% of max range over a typical car ownership period - not charging to the max is very often important to not getting bad degradation, so take another 10% off - winter can take 10-20% range off - driving at typical speed as opposed to the alleged ratings is probably another 10-20% reduced range - headwinds, air conditioning/heating, and other factors can remove another 10-20%. So suddenly, some 300 mile rated range is actually 150 miles of real world range. So here in the midwest, with underinvested charging infrastructure and biiiiiiggggg states and rural density, a 400 mile range really is pretty much required for any functional long distance driving.

bdcravens 3y ago

My EV6 reports a range that it also a loose estimate, but it seems based on recent driving behavior (ie, I was driving free and loose recently, so I may end up getting way more miles than it says, and vice versa)

londons_explore 3y ago

Battery meter at the top is EPA range - ie. the official range measurement method, in basically ideal conditions. The routefinder 'learns' from your previous driving habits. Driving style easily has a 50% impact on range between "drives 50 mph slipstreaming behind a truck" and "drives 90 mph and brakes aggressively at every corner".

lotsofpulp 3y ago
I thought braking aggressively increases range.
- jackmott42 3y ago
  if you brake too aggressively then you will use brake pads as well as regen, and that wastes energy. Also, its still better to arrange to not need to brake at all, than to regen, since regen is not 100% efficient.
- goshx 3y ago
  Not if you use the break pedal
- tialaramex 3y ago
  No? Accelerating and decelerating are both lossy, and for the brief intervals when you're going faster you're also taking additional wind friction loss. Most EVs (including Tesla) do have regenerative braking, so some of your energy is converted back into electricity when you brake, but nowhere close to all of it, so people who have a smoother, less aggressive profile will get more range. Also if you brake really aggressively, you're dissipating more energy than can be successfully harvested and the rest is converted to heat, losing the energy you paid for and also increasing maintenance costs.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    I see, thanks for explaining!
- b0sk 3y ago
  Braking doesn't increase range. Rather the natural foot off pedal regen braking increases range. If you physically slam on brakes, I'm sure that doesn't help range.
  - martin8412 3y ago
    That's a Tesla problem. They couldn't figure out blended braking. If I press the brake hard in my car, the regen goes to max possible.
    - mint2 3y ago
      That is an accurate meter, it is not a Tesla problem. My PHEV works the same way, but that fact isn’t really relevant. The meter is presenting you the regeneration “rate” but what you’re thinking of is the regen rate integrated over time, I.e the amount of charge recovered during the process of stopping, which the meter is not showing you.
      - martin8412 3y ago
        Maybe, I don't really care about regenerative rate, I just notice my meter going to max when braking hard. I only use the battery for city driving and hard acceleration on the motorway anyway. It's great for merging onto the Spanish motorways.
        mint2 3y ago
        But the comment showed you do care, you brought it up and pay attention to it. It’s all that the meter shows that you mentioned.
    - sib 3y ago
      I'm sure that if you "slam on the brakes" (per GP), your car will take region to the max and the apply the real friction brakes, causing lots of kinetic energy to be converted to heat and "wasting" energy... (Also, Tesla cars do have blended braking between region & friction...)
- 0xfae 3y ago
  What? How did you arrive at that conclusion. Even if the laws of thermodynamics and entropy took a holiday, and you recovered 100% of the energy when you brake, at best you would break even and not hurt your range (vs not braking aggressively). Regen breaking increases range over no regen braking, but braking aggressively will always be worse than not braking aggressively.
- _jal 3y ago
  Yep. That's why I just leave a brick on the brake pedal. Infinite range!
- idlewords 3y ago
  You can also recharge the battery by going in reverse, a solution I'm baffled more people don't know about.
jncfhnb 3y ago
When you say “learns” is it actually factoring in the route or is it just using the historical average miles per… what, kWh, and multiplying it across the distance
- londons_explore 3y ago
  Haven't seen the code, so I don't know how it works. It certainly looks at the route though, because different destinations both 100 miles away give different estimated power usages.
- stetrain 3y ago
  When you use the navigation system in a Tesla, the estimated energy usage for that trip takes into account the specific route, your projected speed, elevation changes, traffic, temperature, wind, and adjusts based on what speeds you actually end up going.
jackmott42 3y ago
EPA range is a mix of city and highway range. City range is > highway range, thus EPA range will over estimate highway range and underestimate city range.
cowsandmilk 3y ago
No reason it has to show the EPA range. My family’s Subaru has “learned” that it lives in the mountains and the range estimates reflect that. And I’m pretty sure it’s a simply looking at what kind of gas mileage it got recently. When we have kayaks on top of the car, it readjusts the mileage estimates down pretty quickly. All these comments about ICE vehicles being the same ignore that when ICE vehicles have estimates to empty, they take basic steps to try to get the estimate correct.
- deleted 3y ago
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- ComputerGuru 3y ago
  Same with my VW.
- mulmen 3y ago
  My BMW even calculates "alternates". When I have under 50 miles of range it checks the internal (no Internet service needed) database and offers a route to the nearest known gas station.
- patd 3y ago
  With your system, if I live somewhere flat and I go to the mountains, I will be out of juice during the climb. Tesla has a battery indicator in percentage and the navigation which is pretty accurate. Your ICE car has a gauge for the tank and an estimation of range. Tesla should probably not allow you to show the battery as range as it will always be inaccurate and people will complain. But if they only show percentages, people complain as well.
cmrdporcupine 3y ago
"Battery meter at the top is EPA range - ie. the official range measurement method, in basically ideal conditions." I guess I'm flabbergasted by this, as that's not how my Chevy Volt (and I presume many other BEVs) work. The range value ('guessimeter' people call it) on my Volt takes something like a rolling average of your last few drives and that's what it shows you. So if it's winter, it shows you less range because your last few drives had less efficiency. It's not always accurate (if there's, say, major temp fluctuations), but it's way more useful than what you're describing. To me, what you're describing is borderline dishonest marketing, and technically unnecessary. What I'd like to see is two numbers: estimated range as I've described, and beside it a kWh # (which I can guesstimate from the battery % gauge visual, but not precise). EDIT: Not sure why car manufacturers in general hide the kWh remaining-capacity of the battery so much. They seem to think consumers are too stupid to understand such technical terms? But they're clearly aware of it every time they use a public charger, and it's the closest equivalent to litres/gallons in an ICE.
- stetrain 3y ago
  Tesla has the guess-o-meter based on recent driving, it’s just on a separate Energy page. I leave the dashboard meter set to percent because the “miles” option is just the dumb EPA rated range mapped to percent anyway. The real way to predict range in a Tesla is to use the nav system which takes many factors into account and has been very accurate in my experience.
Merad 3y ago
There's no reason why Tesla can't calculate the accurate range in both places, is there? My 2022 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid has a "distance to empty" number that "learns" based on your driving habits and typical mileage. It's not perfect, for example going on a road trip can throw it off (the hybrid gets significantly lower highway MPG than around town), but most of the time it's very accurate.
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  Yeah, there's no reason they couldn't do that, and most other BEVs do that. The fact that Tesla doesn't is I'd say, disappointing? and likely to give EVs a bad name in the long run. But could also reflect that this is a California company where they don't really have weather.
  - ldbooth 3y ago
    Drive from from Sacramento to Tahoe in the winter... There's weather, and tons of ice/snow at elevation. Many here complain about how inaccurate Tesla's range calcs are driving to Tahoe. It's not the state, it's the amoral response to incentives.
- stetrain 3y ago
  They do have a range estimate based on recent driving, it’s just in a separate Energy page. “Accurate range” is difficult. It could be accurate based on recent driving, but that number could be very inaccurate if there is a change in weather or you are taking a different kind of drive than your last one.
  - steveBK123 3y ago
    Probably showing range in 3 different places that don't really agree is bad right? We are HN tech crowd here so its all fun & games hobbyist stuff. But normies do not want to get into these types of inane subtleties. Arguably the front & center, always-there range display should be the most accurate, not the least accurate.
cevn 3y ago
It really does not learn. I have driven the same route to and from Richmond, VA as a range test over and over again since 2018. My range is approx. 180 miles, in favorable conditions (summer, AC off). If it was actually accurate, as soon as you hit 70-80mph you would see your range half. Clearly that doesn't happen, so the estimator is off by ~40% for highway conditions, i.e. complete bullshit.
- stetrain 3y ago
  Are you talking about the battery meter? That is just EPA range * battery percentage. The precise estimate is in the navigation system, when you navigate to a destination and it says you will arrive with X% left. This takes into account speed, traffic, elevation, temperature, wind, etc. and is usually pretty accurate for me.
  - cevn 3y ago
    Ah I see. I will check on that but you would think that as soon as you get on the highway that estimator would change. It is also the first place someone would look for range, not inside navigation so I would call that false advertising…
    - stetrain 3y ago
      I leave the battery meter set to percentage, the “miles” option is really just percentage dumbly mapped to miles. The golden number in a Tesla Is absolutely the navigation route estimate. While navigating you can open the Energy app as well to see more detail, how you are doing compared to the estimate, and specific factors affecting consumption.
      - cevn 3y ago
        I also use percentage. It's not something that I usually think about. I just know that my "real range" is 180 miles at highway speeds. That's not something they tell you when you buy a Tesla. I also just don't use navigation if I've been somewhere more than once. Just navigate with my head..
nicpottier 3y ago
I think it's basically some PM taking a stand at Tesla with the fact that there's just no good estimate possible without knowing the route, so they will always show EPA estimate. Any sane a Tesla driver changes that to show percent battery instead of range. As others have said the trip planner is excellent, within a percent or two even in winter conditions driving over passes etc.. Note that range changes a lot more due to elevation, speed, cold etc, compared to gas cars because electrics are so much more efficient.
- blake929 3y ago
  The article says it was a mandate from Elon Musk. Not sure I believe the claim, but I'd also be surprised if he wasn't aware just how optimistic the EPA estimate is.
- bumby 3y ago
  My initial thought is that it's a mitigation to litigation. Maybe the thought was as long as you show the "legal" mileage calculation, you can't be held responsible for anything bad that happens? I don't think we apply that to ICE but I could see where a lawyer thinks it's necessary.
  - moduspol 3y ago
    I think you need to give consumers some vague idea of how much range you'll get in the car, and EPA-rated miles is at least a clear standard by which all EVs can be compared. A percentage indicator is fine for a car you already have, but not useful for comparing between cars. It could show kWh, but that isn't good, either. What consumers actually care about is range, and whether that comes from more kWh, better aerodynamics, or a lighter car, the range is the bottom-line number. We wouldn't want consumers buying a car with a bigger battery just because it has more kWh if it doesn't get better range. I think EPA-rated miles is the best of available options--it just needs to be understood by consumers. And I think cases where it isn't are a bit overstated. I suspect very few consumers genuinely believe they'll get the same range in miles regardless of their driving speed, headwinds, or whether they're going uphill or downhill.
darth_avocado 3y ago
I have a model 3. I recently took a trip of 196 miles but lost almost 270 miles in battery. I wasn’t driving like a maniac, I was on 65 mph cruise control the entire time with no traffic.
- mint2 3y ago
  How were the Tires inflated? are they stock tires? are the rims the aero dynamic ones? were you using climate control, was their wind? Hills? Any roof cargo? All these have a big effects. Wind can easy be a 3mpg hit for my car, that’s about 10%. Not all the difference but a couple stacked effects could get yours Annoying all these things matter when range is constrained. Next gen batteries can’t come soon enough.
  - itsoktocry 3y ago
    >How were the Tires inflated? are they stock tires? are the rims the aero dynamic ones? were you using climate control, was their wind? Hills? Any roof cargo? All these have a big effects. True. But none of this should matter if your Tesla actually "learns", as other comments claim, right?
itsoktocry 3y ago
>The routefinder 'learns' from your previous driving habits. I'd like to see evidence of this, but I'm skeptical. Sounds like something Tesla fans claim is happening, like when you report an error at an intersection it gets fixed manually. And, even if true, I'm not sure how useful it'd be.

PhilipA 3y ago

I had a Tesla Model 3 which was very optimistic with the range. My BMW iX3 however is quite conservative and I can usually drive longer than the display states.

wil421 3y ago
We don’t have the iX3 in the US (yet?). I was looking at the x5 plug in hybrid with ~40 miles electric range and the normal b58 straight 6 motor. My wife has the X7, we have 3 kids and hobbies so I’m not sure if even an i5 would work. The new X5 headlights are not my favorite. Do you like the BMW electric system?
- herodotus 3y ago
  I have the 330e Hybrid Plug in. The electric range on a full charge varies from about 28km to 44km (17-27 miles). When I do my usual around town driving, I never need to go off all-electric, so this range works perfectly for me. The range shown on the dash is slightly conservative. For example, I can get from suburban Vancouver to SFU (on top of Burnaby mountain), a distance of 24km with a couple of kilometres still showing, but I can get back home using only about 50% of the reported range. The up-hill portion of the drive versus the down-hill return journey makes a big difference. When I recharge at home (using Level 2), the reported "full" values range from 28km to 44km. I cannot figure out why there is such a big range.
- matthewdgreen 3y ago
  The X5 hybrid is a wonderful car to drive, but as an EV it's... not good. You get less than 1/10th the range of a full Tesla Model Y (< 30 miles), using a battery that's 1/3rd the capacity. I assume some of the lost efficiency is due to the X5's higher curb weight, but it's only about ~1200lbs heavier (4,416 vs. 5,646 pounds) which doesn't seem to justify a 3x efficiency difference. The BMW also includes a tiny 16A charger, whereas the old i3 had a 32A charger. This limits charging to ~3 range-miles per hour, making public chargers basically pointless (again compare to the LR Tesla Model Y which has a 48A charger and can add 40+ range-miles in an hour.) In gas-only hybrid mode, the mileage is ~19 MPG, which is actually kind of offensive for a hybrid car.

aaomidi 3y ago

[flagged]

AuthorizedCust 3y ago
You have it backwards. The car serves you. You should not have to serve the car (beyond universal, traditional things, like the need to maintain, insure, etc.). It’s reasonable to ask for a range estimate that’s not naively optimistic.
- tekla 3y ago
  It is not naively optimistic. I just finished a 2500 mile drive with a Tesla Y and its estimates are pretty much within 1-2% of my actual usage.
  - HWR_14 3y ago
    As the article (or another poster) points out, you get a different algorithm when you look at the dash on a random day vs. when the Tesla knows you are going on a trip. That's even more damning to me. Edit: Also a different algorithm when below 50% charged. As some of the replies point out, a destination does supply more information. The current charge level does not.
    - tekla 3y ago
      How does the Tesla know I'm going on a trip? Are you implying its strange that the Tesla can calculate a more accurate range estimate when you literally tell it where you want to go to its computer which can use map data to calculate energy usage, versus you just driving around in circles in a arbitrary area and the computer only can assume based on EPA average usage?
      - rootusrootus 3y ago
        It doesn’t use average usage to calculate the remaining range, it uses EPA numbers which are 200 Wh/mi or less. Which, interestingly, is less than the consumption shown on the Monroney sticker. How they can show two contradictory numbers on the same official document is fascinating to me.

WatchDog 3y ago

Seems like it’s common across all EVs for the range to be inflated by around 20%, at least for freeway driving. In a recent review, a Tesla did a slightly better job than most of the cars tested, as far as portion of stated range achieved. https://youtu.be/fvwOa7TCd1E&t=36m15s https://youtu.be/fvwOa7TCd1E&t=36m15s

antisthenes 3y ago
> Seems like it’s common across all EVs for the range to be inflated by around 20%, at least for freeway driving. Most people speed on the freeway. Extra speed reduces range significantly.
- Y_Y 3y ago
  IMHO comments like this are much more valuable with some numbers. The linked figure[0] and associated paper report that efficiency peaks for EVs at around 20mph and then the cost per mile increases roughly linearly, by about 25 watt-hours when the speed increases by 10mph. Please excuse the archaic units. [0] https://www.researchgate.net/figure/ehicle-energy-economy-at-different-speeds_fig1_326822085 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/ehicle-energy-economy-at...
  - vel0city 3y ago
    The Tesla Roadster is an absolutely ancient EV.
- Y-bar 3y ago
  This. And it is true of petrol cars as well. In my old clunker going from 110 km/h to 120km/h is a 9% speed increase but nets about 15% extra fuel consumption.
  - JimtheCoder 3y ago
    Is this with the windows up or windows down...?

wintermutestwin 3y ago

I know someone who bought an early Leaf to get to work and back. The stated range was 107 miles and their commute was 35 miles each way. The problem was that there was >2000 feet of elevation change.

vel0city 3y ago
I don't quite get this. It was a round-trip thing right, like the overall net elevation change at the end of the day was 0, right? All that energy was stored as potential energy, they'd get it back rolling down the mountain. To my understanding a round-trip it shouldn't have made that much of an impact.
- stetrain 3y ago
  Regen braking is not 100% efficient, closer to 70-80%. So climbing a mountain and then going down the other side does cost more net energy than driving the same distance on flat ground. Also if the elevation change is such that you don’t have enough to get to the top, the amount you would regen on the way down doesn’t matter.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    This isn't a question of regen braking through. > climbing a mountain and then going down the other side does cost more net energy than driving the same distance on flat ground. You say this, but your reasoning is regen braking? What if you never had to brake the entire way? Where did all the energy going going up the hill go? If I carry a sack of sand up a hill and drop it, the amount of energy it has falling is equal to the amount of energy lifting it up the hill. Why does this then magically change when that sack of sand is now a car?
    - CorrectHorseBat 3y ago
      Without any resistance or breaking you are correct, but in real life you do have to break. Non constant speed also makes it worse because resistance is not linear.

Astronaut3315 3y ago

I also have a Model Y- it’s our family’s only vehicle. We love almost everything about it. Tip: tap the range estimate to switch it to percent. The EPA estimate is meaningless. Yes, that should be improved.

gt565k 3y ago

ICE vehicles have lower range as well when going uphill or exceeding the optimal speed and increasing air drag. The estimates are based on driving on a flat road at the speed limit. Even my Lexus SUV can get 24mpg driving on 35-45mph roads vs 16-19 in the city or going to the mountains where elevation increases. People's understanding of range is just not quite there yet whether it's for an ICE vehicle or an EV.

brianwawok 3y ago

Switch to %. I know how far % will go. Very simple. The miles is a PR stunt.

syntaxing 3y ago

Not defending Tesla but battery range is really hard without context. Kinetic energy is velocity^2, which means moving twice the speed takes 4X the energy. They probably can get the right estimate for a destination because it knows the speed limit for the route and using that as your velocity can give you a better answer.

cevn 3y ago
They could, but they don’t. Edit: someone else pointed out if you actually navigate then it will show remaining % more accurately. Still seems like false advertising..
- tekla 3y ago
  How is it false advertising.
  - cevn 3y ago
    I don't use navigation, almost ever, after the first place I go somewhere. Therefore, the main battery estimator is just wrong. If it actually worked, as soon as you got to highway speeds you would see it half. Hiding the real estimation behind the navigation tool is cowardly
    - tekla 3y ago
      How is that any different from a ICE car? How is the car supposed to know how much energy you might be using in the future? Last time I checked, no ICE car has the ability to predict the future.
      - brazzledazzle 3y ago
        The distance left in the tank is closer to the Tesla's more accurate estimate because it's constantly adjusting based on both your current gas level as well as your current energy efficiency. It may not accurately convey the distance available at the start of a trip but you're going to know well ahead of time if you're burn rate is too high. If the non-navigation distance estimate in a Tesla is always padded you could find out well after it's too late to make it to your destination or a charging station.

huijzer 3y ago

> I have a model Y. I hate almost everything about it. Can you tell more about this? I'm curious.

thehappypm 3y ago
I absolutely love my Model Y. I do long road trips all the time with it. Best car I’ve owned ever by a mile.
- Lendal 3y ago
  I would recommend a Tesla to anyone, but not the FSD option. Don't waste your money on the FSD option, and you're fine. It's an expensive car that's super cheap to drive. The motors are basically zero maintenance. The battery will likely last the rest of my life. The interior is not too luxurious but decent. The seats are surprisingly durable and comfortable. No reason to sell it ever, unless you just get bored easily.
  - thehappypm 3y ago
    I just use AutoSteer and it is pretty awesome. It’s cruise control in its final form!

malwrar 3y ago

I actually got stranded once for some hours because of the mileage indicator! Was driving back from a campsite that I turned out to not have charging compatibility with, but thought I had plenty of margin to get to the nearest charger. As I drove through the mountains however, I began noticing that a.) my battery was depleting much faster than expected and b.) I wasn’t seeing any houses and very few motorists. I watched with increasing dread as the trip miles began converging with the battery miles, as my friends in the car got more and more quiet. We reached the inflection point, and the best I could do was hope we’d encounter somewhere with a plug that might be able to get us the rest of the way. Eventually though the milage indicator reached zero, and I pulled off the road to what I thought was a campsite but turned out to be a sort of rest stop with no power plugs in sight. To make matters worse I was in a mountain valley and had no phone signal, and hiking wasn’t an option as it was pretty hot and we had no water. We were there for hours until I was able to flag down a nice older couple and get a ride to a place with cell signal, where I was able to get a tow truck capable of transporting my car (turns out you need one that has a full bed because of the regenerative breaking, and tesla’s service doesn’t have infinite coverage) to the charger I was trying to get to. Ironically that last part was probably the most frustrating. The charging spot was full save one spot in the back, which my tow truck guy Mel couldn’t get back to. No sweat I thought, I’ll just try asking someone to swap, but people in their cars pretended to ignore me, and one couple leaving theirs just walked away, as I asked if they could move so we could unload my dead car. Had a sudden wave of empathy for the people I usually walk away from who ask me for spare change lol. Eventually someone left and I was able to charge and resume the 6 hour road trip home. Biggest lesson learned was that slow is fast, keep it at 60 if you want the milage meter to not die as quick.

JohnFen 3y ago
> it was pretty hot and we had no water. Another take-home lesson: if you're driving out of range of civilization, carry water along with your first aid supplies.
- squarefoot 3y ago
  This a hundred times. Years ago, on a hot summer day, my girlfriend and I were stranded on the highway after a big truck overturned blocking the entire driveway. We were on my then motorcycle, but couldn't drive in any directions as the next exit was way beyond the overturned truck and it was blocked cars everywhere. We were extremely lucky I brought a couple frozen water plastic bottles in the bags, so although we had to wait until dark (6-7 hours) before they could eventually free the highway, we never went out of water. Since that episode, I always took at least one plastic bottle of frozen water when doing motorcycle trips.

dubeye 3y ago

The obvious question is why don't you sell the car if you hate everything about it. Sunk cost and all that

newZWhoDis 3y ago

This is not a hard concept, and it’s rather surprising that this of all things is what you have issue with. The battery icon is Miles of rated range, where “rated” means flat windless road at 60MPH and 70 degrees. Call it “standard” range if you will. The car has no idea where you’re going so it uses the standard calculation. When you set a destination it can now (and does) factor in elevation change, speed on given roads, wind speed, wind direction, temperature along the route, etc etc etc and is more accurate. So your least favorite feature is one you openly admit to not using properly? If you want laser precise range estimation set a destination ffs. Or, if you’re like most drivers you start every day with 200-300mi of range and unless you’re going out of state you don’t even think about range.

Lendal 3y ago

While there are things to hate on with Tesla cars, range is not one of them. I have a Model Y and for the most part I like it. I plug it in when it needs charging. What's so hard about that? I've been on several 6000+ mile journeys across the country and never had a problem, even out west where charging is more sparse. The thing I hate most about my car is that I spent $10K on "Full Self Driving" and rarely use it. It totally sucks and is definitely the worst $10K I've ever spent on anything. That money could have gone to a nice vacation somewhere and I would be happy about that. But no, every time I try out the FSD, I come away disappointed.

pilingual 3y ago
What was your thought process when you spent $10,000 on "FSD?"
- Lendal 3y ago
  I thought it would be cool. I didn't consider the fact I don't actually like it when someone else is driving. I don't like being a passenger even if a person I trust is driving, so why would an AI be different? Apparently I like to drive more than I thought I did. Also, I didn't realize how many restrictions there would be. You have to keep your hands applying constant tension on the steering wheel, and there's actually a camera that watches your eyes now. So you can't even eat a sandwich without the car freaking out and punishing you for looking at your food too long.
  - aydyn 3y ago
    You can just play games on your phone, or take a quick power nap (don't forget to set a timer!) It's awesome!
    - bsagdiyev 3y ago
      Get the fuck off the road with that attitude. You're why people die.

tehwebguy 3y ago

We rented one on a trip recently, super annoying to realize the dozen or so chargers in this beach town were actually incompatible or just too slow for real life. On the way back to the drop off autopilot tried to slam us into the Bentley next us! It had been traveling the same direction as us for like 20 minutes and when we passed through an intersection it just jerked hard left and I had to correct it manually. Possible injuries notwithstanding I’m sure that would have surpassed my insurance coverage, which I’ve intentionally gone way above minimums on.

capableweb 3y ago
> It had been traveling the same direction as us for like 20 minutes and when we passed through an intersection it just jerked hard left and I had to correct it manually. Even if this and many other stories are just anecdotes, I could never imagine myself even testing this "auto-but-not-really-pilot" feature outside of a testing environment. How do you folks dare to even try to use it? The risk is so big and the reward so tiny...
- suction 3y ago
  [dead]
- tehwebguy 3y ago
  With hands still on the wheel so I knew it couldn’t override me. Until that moment it just felt like the car drove “video game straight” with it on, instead of me making never ending micro corrections to account for things like the road, wind, tires. But after that no thanks.
concordDance 3y ago
> We rented one on a trip recently, super annoying to realize the dozen or so chargers in this beach town were actually incompatible or just too slow for real life. Where were you that has a dozen chargers but no superchargers?
- tehwebguy 3y ago

KingOfCoders 3y ago

"I hate almost everything about it." Not owning a car only using rentals, I still think Tesla has the best and most intuitive UI. I can find everything easily, whereas in a SUVs from Skoda/VW/Audi/BMW/Renault/... it's hard to find things - at least for me. What I do hate about the Model Ys we rented is the noise! Wind/wheel noise is as loud at 100km/h as a BMW at 150km/h - I guess they do this to safe weight and increase range, but it makes the trips very unpleasant. Also how it randomly breaks in self driving (at least on a German Autobahn).

ethanbond 3y ago
> I guess they to this to safe weight and increase range, but it makes the trips very unpleasant. Or, you know, margins.
croes 3y ago
>the best and most intuitive UI I think the best UI was before all the computer displays in cars. Everything operable without visual contact.
- KingOfCoders 3y ago
  I disagree. Because we seldom have the same car twice, I always need to decipher some strange icons to find out what something does. Or how to operate the wipers. It might work better if you know it b/c of tactile feedback, but it's in no way intuitive.
  - croes 3y ago
    The icons problem isn't any different now, but now the icons are hidden in different sub menus. All that without the benefit of tactile feedback of knobs and switches.
    - KingOfCoders 3y ago
      There is no icon but a text, "Turn AC on"

samwillis 3y ago

The solution is to not show miles on the basic battery meter, just percentage. Maybe show a rage next to it - 130-160 miles. But that too honest. ICE cars all show a percentage, and maybe additionally a mileage on newer cars. The fact that they threw that away is a little silly.

tshaddox 3y ago
I also prefer the battery meter to show percentage simply to reduce range anxiety. Even if the mileage estimate was accurate, I’d rather not constantly be calculating how many miles I think I might need to drive before the next charge.
sib 3y ago
If you tap the miles indicator, it changes to percent.
jotux 3y ago
>The fact that they threw that away is a little silly. You state this as a fact, but it's completely incorrect. It has been an option since at least 2018 to change the indicator to percentage.

koolba 3y ago

What does the regular display claim to represent? Coasting on a flat surface at 35mph with a positive tailwind?

rsynnott 3y ago

> I hate almost everything about it. By convention, you are required to phrase this as "I love my Tesla, but..."

aoweijrti 3y ago

I make EVs at a different company, and I'm not a fan of Tesla's range indicator. It's misleading because miles don't map directly onto battery charge. The range that that indicates is miles on flat level ground with no wind at 55mph which you will never experience in real life. At 80mph you're going to get 2/3 of that range every time. At 35mph you can get significantly higher range, but no one is ever going to drive 300+ miles at 35mph. If you just tap on the range icon it will change to percent, which is less misleading. ICE vehicles have all the same problems, but most ICE vehicles always just show gas level, rather than range.

martin8412 3y ago
My PHEV VW car shows range which is estimated based on the petrol level and the battery charge. I learned this the hard way because I noticed my petrol tank was very very close to empty driving on the motorway. I simply engaged fully electric mode, which turns off the petrol engine, and that way made it to the fueling station. It sort of learns based on the immediately previous drive what the driving style is, and therefore what the range is.
m463 3y ago
> but no one is ever going to drive 300+ miles at 35mph but I have driven 35mph on slow city streets to make it to the next charging station when the one I was at was full with a line. (years ago)

philistine 3y ago

Shenanigans like that is how you end up with regulations on what car can display in terms of range. This is similar to how we ended up with strict rules on MPG when purchasing.

nunez 3y ago

It's the same problem as displaying the battery percentage on your phone. you're more inclined to look at it, and will be more anxious when that number drops. I wish Tesla would allow you to hide the battery percentage entirely (unless it drops below a threshold).

14u2c 3y ago
Huh? Do you constantly stare at a car gas gauge too? Battery level is important information for planning your usage, with both phones and cars.
- nunez 3y ago
  Yeah, when it's low!

concordDance 3y ago

> It'll display a the battery in miles, but it's at least 25% inflated. Worth noting this is also common in ICE cars. Mine has it.

breakyerself 3y ago

I think the range is inflated, but I can get close to it by driving like an absolute grandpa. I think it's possible, but not realistic.

lurkervizzle 3y ago

Waited for 2 years for the new long range Tesla Model X and sold it within 3 months for exactly this reason. The range was a total fabrication - actual range for city driving was closer to 180 miles, not the claimed 300+. Complete sham.

cameronh90 3y ago

For what it's worth, I have a Nissan standard petrol car and it's pretty much the same. Every time I fill it up, it says I have 400 miles of range, then by the time I've driven about 300 miles, I've only got a few miles of range left. Interestingly the accuracy seems to get a lot better by the time I'm down to half a tank. I don't know if it's a sensor issue, or maybe my driving habits just change a lot when I have a full tank versus when I'm running low. The type of driving and time I'm driving can also make a huge difference to my trip MPG - some trips I average about 10MPG, others closer to 40MPG. Generally speaking, low speed but clear rural roads get the best, followed by motorway, followed by pootering around the city. The absolute worst mileage is during the winter, when I might only be driving lots of short trips around town on a very cold engine, with the headlights on, in the rain. In that case, I might only get around 200 miles out of a tank. Anyway, my point is that knowing the specifics of this trip's fuel consumption is a much easier problem than knowing how many miles it'll be until you next need to refuel.

wnissen 3y ago
Yes, my Mazda does the same. It will happily report a 450 mile (725 km) range on my 13.2 gallon / 50 L tank, when I have never gotten more than 380 miles. Sometimes much less. To be fair, if you cruised slightly above the speed limit on the highway in fair conditions and drove it to truly empty, I think you would actually get that. But the gauge reads empty when there is easily 1.5 gal / 5.7 L in the tank, so in practice there is no way you're going to get the stated range. However, the key difference is that my gas car can be filled up anywhere, and worst case I'd need to get a gas can. Running out of charge is a flatbed tow, that's a huge hassle. The range being accurate is a big deal on an electric!
- cameronh90 3y ago
  Here there are some vehicle recovery services where they can dispatch a van with a giant battery in it to charge your stranded EV enough to get to the next proper charger. Still more of a pain than a petrol can but better than a flatbed!

yayitswei 3y ago

This has been my experience as well. When there's a disparity, the Energy app gives additional details why the estimate was wrong (driving speed, climate control, etc).

chayesfss 3y ago

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01100011 3y ago

Rented a MY a couple months ago and was surprised how much I, and more surprisingly, my wife, hated it. Now, I despise Elon and the risky safety decisions of Tesla engineers, so I'm biased, but I wanted to give them a shot. Range was horrible. We drove about 100 miles and spent a couple hours over several sessions at superchargers. The handling and turning radius sucked. The controls were frighteningly distracting and confusing. Sound in the cabin seemed very weird, probably due to the glass roof and noise cancelling system. Finally, for a dual motor, I expected a lot more acceleration. I drove a Chevy Bolt for a year and was surprised how heavy and sluggish the MY felt.

jayd16 3y ago
You drive 100 miles and spent hours charging? That makes no sense. We're you towing something?
- 01100011 3y ago
  Exactly. Nope, no towing. Drove about half those miles and spent about 45 minutes at a supercharger, then drove another 35 or so and spent a little over an hour at another one. In the second case I was trying to get to 90% so I could return the car above the 72% I picked it up at. We ran the A/C most of the time. I was driving pretty conservatively with about 50/50 highway/city streets. I did try to show off the acceleration abilities once but didn't fully floor it. It's possible that, being a rental(although fairly new) the battery had taken some charging abuse.
  - dzhiurgis 3y ago
    1h45m at supercharger, depending on charging curve, should result in 200-300 miles. So maybe you were just queueing at supercharger or something else doesn't check out at all.
    - 01100011 3y ago
      Queueing? Would the supercharger limit my charging time for some reason? I drove right up to an open charger every time, so I wasn't waiting in line.

waffletower 3y ago

I find the range numbers on my Model Y to be fairly accurate, when I choose and am able to drive at optimal speeds on level ground (which is the situation on some trips). 60-65 MPH is the commonly sighted range for the dual motor Model Y. The range does attempt to factor in heat pump usage, and I am unclear how accurate those adjustments are.

wilg 3y ago

I recommend tapping the battery meter to put it into percent instead of EPA miles (useless, misleading) and only estimate range using the trip planner, which is usually quite good.

mmustapic 3y ago

It is true that it's very accurate. I was on a trip that predicted 22% battery on arrival, and I had 21%. The last 5-10km were mostly descending down a valley, so lot of regeneration. Thus, when I arrived, 22%, as predicted.

beacham 3y ago

Bummer to hear you all don’t like it. I drove a RWD Long Range Model 3 for 4.5 years. Absolutely loved everything about it. But the range was no where near 310 miles like stated. But I couldn’t have really cared less once I knew that fact. The few times a year I needed more than 200 miles, I used superchargers on my route just like I would if I had 250-300 and had to wait an extra 2 minutes at the charger. I averaged ~300-325 wh/m going 80-90mph on the highway (wind speed/direction obviously makes a big difference). 75kwh battery. 230 mile range. Every other day was charge to 80%, incredibly convenient to never think about it or gas and have more torque, speed than any other car you’re around. And low to no maintenance. I now own a Long Range Model X. It is MUCH closer to the EPA mileage. I average ~330wh/m but I have a 100kwh battery, so much closer to a legitimate 300 mile range. Once again, doesn’t really make a different unless you happen to have an exact 275 mile trip. Either way, you’ll be stopping at a halfway supercharger to stay in optimal charge range (15-85%).

machdiamonds 3y ago

It's very easy to see how favorably or unfavorably Tesla's claimed range compares to competitors based on independent tests of multiple EVs in the same conditions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LWL90paufE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LWL90paufE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynCaTDR4rDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynCaTDR4rDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFB6hsYXDiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFB6hsYXDiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvwOa7TCd1E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvwOa7TCd1E Spoiler alert: Tesla models fare about as well, if not better, than their EV cousins, hitting around 80% of the stated range in the wild.

strix_varius 3y ago
> Spoiler alert: Tesla models fare about as well, if not better, than their EV cousins, hitting around 80% of the stated range in the wild. This is not true according to the very article we're discussing here, which across many analysis learned that three Tesla vehicles were the least-accurate (most-optimistic or most-deceptive, depending on your point of view).

chemmail 3y ago

There is a reason why the mileage estimate on EVS are called GOMS (guess o meters). They are like laptops, totally unreliable. They should really just stick to percentages. I don't think anyone really relies on the mileage left in gas cars, that mentality should be carried over to EVs. The number is really the fault of the EPA which uses a synthetic tests and allows manufacturers to just run with that.

sMarsIntruder 3y ago

If I hate something I would try to sell it immediately. Did you sell it? Otherwise it looks to me that your rant is just for karma collecting.

concordDance 3y ago

https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/browseList.jsp https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/browseList.jsp Judging by this the EPA numbers it gives are accurate on average.

geekraver 3y ago

This is my experience too. If you plan your trip, it’s really good about predicting the % battery remaining. I never put it on miles display anymore; that’s evidently going to be inaccurate because it doesn’t take into account many other factors. But if I enter in a route, now it actually has something to go on and can do a good job.

AtlasBarfed 3y ago

It's what drives me nuts about "300 miles is more than enough". Consider: - batteries lose, best case, about 10-20% of max range over a typical car ownership period - not charging to the max is very often important to not getting bad degradation, so take another 10% off - winter can take 10-20% range off - driving at typical speed as opposed to the alleged ratings is probably another 10-20% reduced range - headwinds, air conditioning/heating, and other factors can remove another 10-20%. So suddenly, some 300 mile rated range is actually 150 miles of real world range. So here in the midwest, with underinvested charging infrastructure and biiiiiiggggg states and rural density, a 400 mile range really is pretty much required for any functional long distance driving.