6 ms·

Worth noting that you can’t use your appleid or icloud on a vm of macos

by mickgardner 3y ago

coldtea 3y ago
As in technically can't, or mere license-wise "you're not supposed to"?
- saagarjha 3y ago
  Virtualization at least does not have a functional sign-in
- 130e13a 3y ago
  i could be completely wrong here, but i do seem to remember something about there being some physical chip in the machine that needed to be present for e.g. iMessage to work. this was a while ago but iirc they also somehow incorporated local Apple ID account management into that system.
- amelius 3y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if there are fuses inside the processor that tie it to your Apple ID.
alex7o 3y ago
I don't use them on my real Mac why would I need them on my fake (VM) one
- ziftface 3y ago
  I think that means no iOS development so if you need that you need a real Mac
  - qalmakka 3y ago
    Well, QEMU has no graphical acceleration for macOS (no virtio drivers for XNU and Quartz) so it's basically unusable - software rendering has been historically borked on macOS, and never well tested.
  - jeroenhd 3y ago
    I can see why that would block publishing apps to the app store, but surely you can still locally develop applications in the iOS emulator?
    - ziftface 3y ago
      I'm sure it's possible, depending on the kind of application and the tools you use to build it. But xcode won't build your application if you don't link your account. I believe it needs that to "sign" the application with apple. There may be ways to get around this but I don't of any.
      - saurik 3y ago
        You can manage your signing identity entirely using Apple's website and just not use automatic provisioning. (I do that anyway even though I build on macOS as I just don't want our build system tied to Xcode just so we can use the automatic provisioning.)
  - EMIRELADERO 3y ago
    Note that the EU's Digital Markets Act will probably stop all that bs, as requiring to use one core platform service to develop for, and distribute to, another (iOS) is against that law. Third-party app stores and outright website-based app distribution are coming next year anyway.
    - ziftface 3y ago
      That's interesting, I did not know about this legislation. I'm not European, but it seems that even outside of Europe, people will benefit from this change.
      - sofixa 3y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
    - tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago
      If Apple was compelled to support a first-class iOS development experience on Windows, all this would do is immovably stunt the continued improvement of iOS development on macOS. There is a material degree of OS integration / cooperation in IOS development with Xcode. If Apple released a second-class development experience I’ve no doubt that you’d spare no time in making similar insinuations that it’s some sort of artificial constraint.
      - incrudible 3y ago
        XCode is a hog, if there was a supported way to develop applications without it, that would be a first class experience.
        detourdog 3y ago
        like the xcode cli tools. all th e basic tools are there.
        INGSOCIALITE 3y ago
qalmakka 3y ago
You can, but only if you follow an hackintosh guide and spoof it with a "virgin" ID, it's tricky but doable.
wuming2 3y ago
So what is for rent on AWS or MacStadium are not VMs on genuine Mac hardware?
- wkat4242 3y ago
  On Intel macos it did work with iCloud accounts etc. At least last time I tried (which is a few years ago admittedly).
- petree 3y ago
  They're not really VMs. They are metal instances, which run without a hypervisor, but have virtualized network and storage attached instead.
  - mschuster91 3y ago
    How are these secured against people messing around with flashable components?
    - saagarjha 3y ago
      There aren’t many.
chewmieser 3y ago
? I have Mac running on ESX signed into my Apple account. I haven’t used it too much but it’s on my list of devices on my account. Even says “VMWare” for device type.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  VMware passes through the id of the physical hardware into the guest VM. So if you're running on apple hardware, this works. If you're running on a PC, there are hacks to 'borrow' the serial number of some ancient imac and have it work still (even ancient systems are still allowed to log into icloud, and those ancient systems didn't do any cryptography so all you need is a valid serial number that nobody else is using).
  - chii 3y ago
    But if this serial number was shared between several people, all of whom might have logged in with a different apple cloud id, would that somehow cause apple to trigger something?
    - londons_explore 3y ago
      I think they log you out if someone else logs in with another appleid on the same hardware id. Mine got logged out when I used a publically shared id, and stopped being randomly logged out when I picked a random number.
  - GeekyBear 3y ago
    > even ancient systems are still allowed to log into icloud, and those ancient systems didn't do any cryptography so all you need is a valid serial number that nobody else is using The ancient random serial numbers are also in a standard format. > Apple devices manufactured after 2010 generally have 12-character alphanumeric serial numbers, with the first three digits representing the manufacturing location, the following two indicating the year and week of manufacture, the next three digits providing a unique identifier, and the last four digits representing the model number.
  - 3y ago
defied 3y ago
You can't use AppleID or iCloud because Apple's virtualization.framework does not support this (yet) https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/707459 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/707459 If you run macOS without the virtualization.framework, which is only possible on non-ARM mac's, then it will work.

Worth noting that you can’t use your appleid or icloud on a vm of macos

coldtea 3y ago

As in technically can't, or mere license-wise "you're not supposed to"?

saagarjha 3y ago
Virtualization at least does not have a functional sign-in
130e13a 3y ago
i could be completely wrong here, but i do seem to remember something about there being some physical chip in the machine that needed to be present for e.g. iMessage to work. this was a while ago but iirc they also somehow incorporated local Apple ID account management into that system.
amelius 3y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if there are fuses inside the processor that tie it to your Apple ID.

alex7o 3y ago

I don't use them on my real Mac why would I need them on my fake (VM) one

ziftface 3y ago
I think that means no iOS development so if you need that you need a real Mac
- qalmakka 3y ago
  Well, QEMU has no graphical acceleration for macOS (no virtio drivers for XNU and Quartz) so it's basically unusable - software rendering has been historically borked on macOS, and never well tested.
- jeroenhd 3y ago
  I can see why that would block publishing apps to the app store, but surely you can still locally develop applications in the iOS emulator?
  - ziftface 3y ago
    I'm sure it's possible, depending on the kind of application and the tools you use to build it. But xcode won't build your application if you don't link your account. I believe it needs that to "sign" the application with apple. There may be ways to get around this but I don't of any.
    - saurik 3y ago
      You can manage your signing identity entirely using Apple's website and just not use automatic provisioning. (I do that anyway even though I build on macOS as I just don't want our build system tied to Xcode just so we can use the automatic provisioning.)
- EMIRELADERO 3y ago
  Note that the EU's Digital Markets Act will probably stop all that bs, as requiring to use one core platform service to develop for, and distribute to, another (iOS) is against that law. Third-party app stores and outright website-based app distribution are coming next year anyway.
  - ziftface 3y ago
    That's interesting, I did not know about this legislation. I'm not European, but it seems that even outside of Europe, people will benefit from this change.
    - sofixa 3y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brussels_effect
  - tmpX7dMeXU 3y ago
    If Apple was compelled to support a first-class iOS development experience on Windows, all this would do is immovably stunt the continued improvement of iOS development on macOS. There is a material degree of OS integration / cooperation in IOS development with Xcode. If Apple released a second-class development experience I’ve no doubt that you’d spare no time in making similar insinuations that it’s some sort of artificial constraint.
    - incrudible 3y ago
      XCode is a hog, if there was a supported way to develop applications without it, that would be a first class experience.
      - detourdog 3y ago
        like the xcode cli tools. all th e basic tools are there.
      - INGSOCIALITE 3y ago

qalmakka 3y ago

You can, but only if you follow an hackintosh guide and spoof it with a "virgin" ID, it's tricky but doable.

wuming2 3y ago

So what is for rent on AWS or MacStadium are not VMs on genuine Mac hardware?

wkat4242 3y ago
On Intel macos it did work with iCloud accounts etc. At least last time I tried (which is a few years ago admittedly).
petree 3y ago
They're not really VMs. They are metal instances, which run without a hypervisor, but have virtualized network and storage attached instead.
- mschuster91 3y ago
  How are these secured against people messing around with flashable components?
  - saagarjha 3y ago
    There aren’t many.

chewmieser 3y ago

? I have Mac running on ESX signed into my Apple account. I haven’t used it too much but it’s on my list of devices on my account. Even says “VMWare” for device type.

londons_explore 3y ago
VMware passes through the id of the physical hardware into the guest VM. So if you're running on apple hardware, this works. If you're running on a PC, there are hacks to 'borrow' the serial number of some ancient imac and have it work still (even ancient systems are still allowed to log into icloud, and those ancient systems didn't do any cryptography so all you need is a valid serial number that nobody else is using).
- chii 3y ago
  But if this serial number was shared between several people, all of whom might have logged in with a different apple cloud id, would that somehow cause apple to trigger something?
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    I think they log you out if someone else logs in with another appleid on the same hardware id. Mine got logged out when I used a publically shared id, and stopped being randomly logged out when I picked a random number.
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  > even ancient systems are still allowed to log into icloud, and those ancient systems didn't do any cryptography so all you need is a valid serial number that nobody else is using The ancient random serial numbers are also in a standard format. > Apple devices manufactured after 2010 generally have 12-character alphanumeric serial numbers, with the first three digits representing the manufacturing location, the following two indicating the year and week of manufacture, the next three digits providing a unique identifier, and the last four digits representing the model number.
- 3y ago

defied 3y ago

You can't use AppleID or iCloud because Apple's virtualization.framework does not support this (yet) https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/707459 https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/707459 If you run macOS without the virtualization.framework, which is only possible on non-ARM mac's, then it will work.