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White Flight from Asian Immigration: Evidence from California Public Schools
- fwungy 3y agoWhites move in = gentrification Whites move out = white flight
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- sublinear 3y agoIt's true when the moving in/out is done in significant enough numbers to find a correlation.
- uoaei 3y agoTypically these are described as causal factors, more than correlation is required here.
- fwungy 3y agoIn my area the top realtors are Chinese and specialize in investment properties for wealthy Chinese. The white/Hispanic locals who used to live here can't afford to compete in the market and so are leaving. Asians are the leading demographic group in income and educational achievement now. Whites don't even come close in aggregate.
- HydianSnake1 3y ago[dead]
- mnk47 3y ago> Whites move in = gentrification Who says that?
- gettodachoppa 3y agoIt do be like that, don't it? White person treats people differently based on race = racist White person treats people the same regardless of race = racist White parent doesn't want their 3rd grader being taught they are an oppressor = racist parent
- sublinear 3y agoI don't even disagree despite my other comment and I'm not even white.
- Solvency 3y ago"These patterns cannot be fully explained by racial animus, housing prices, or correlations with Black/Hispanic arrivals. Parental fears of academic competition may play a role." This is utterly insane. As if the average white family are completely and utterly mobile and financially robust enough to whimsically change their kids schooling over fear of "competition" from Asians. This is so outrageously reductionist it has to be agenda driven.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoPresumably, the study is not referring to average white families. In the summary, it says > high-socioeconomic-status Californian school districts
- jasmer 3y ago[dead]
- stevenwoo 3y agoCan you elaborate on what the agenda is?
- ardit33 3y agoI have friends (Asian) that wont put their kids on some of the mostly asian schools in the Bay Area, even though they are top schools, as the competition is too much and they don't want to raise unhappy kids. Basically, over-emphasis at academics at any costs in the first/second gen asians (either Chinese or Korean), raises unhappy kids (this was by two of my asian friends). My guess, rich white parents might view it the same, and they want to have a more free form/wholesome type of environment for their kids. Take it as you will... (Ps. I am not american and I don't have kids, so I don't have a horse in this race, pun intended)
- abeppu 3y agoA direct link to the pdf: https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31434/w31434.pdf https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31434/w314... "the enrollment of one Asian student leads to 1.5 white departures on average" "Another simple explanation for white flight could be a direct distaste for interacting with Asian peers. However, this account is not consistent with the fact that white flight is only observed in high-SES school districts, given that high-income and more-educated respondents are less likely (rather than more likely) to express negative attitudes toward Asian Americans on surveys." They claim to "rule out" "direct racial animus", but they don't really back that up with anything. They don't even cite anything supporting their survey claim, they just throw out that comment. But maybe high-SES white people have just learned not to express "negative" attitudes towards racial groups on surveys?
- tsunamifury 3y agoSince Asians on average are both wealthier and earn more than average Caucasian families isn’t using the term “White flight” a bit incorrect due to its connotations? Wouldn’t the better term be “Asian gentrification of lower income white communities?” I’m half joking here and half serious. In reality I see what the paper is saying and I tend to agree. It’s hard to say there is a “white” culture but at the upper end the is a shared sort of blue blood set of values that this paper addresses. Those values strongly lean into diverse and well rounded child rearing and wholistic development. The likely hood that Asian families create academic focused game theory problems by beating out students who focus on more wholistic education feels believable. However ultimately those values i think disappear by the second generation. On the whole I think this paper is trying to point out that white upper class culture finds Asian cultural definitions of success mildly offensive, and to protect their ways move out. I’m the product of white and Chinese heritage and this feels true to me.
- Dig1t 3y agoIf it were any other pair of races, yes. However if it involves white people, the whites must always be cast as the evil ones.
- hsjqllzlfkf 3y agoYou have been radicalized, please get help.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- abeppu 3y agoNo, if they've done their data analysis right (and I dunno...) they're saying it's actually _flight_ b/c whites leave faster than Asians arrive, and apparently they confirm by getting this number by more than one route. They hammer on this in multiple sections: "our estimate of white flight from Asian entry in high-SES districts is larger, with each new Asian student leading to 1.5 white student departures" "Overall, we find a 1.5-to-one departure rate for the average suburban district, which is above the one-for-one threshold that would pertain to a pure housing market response." "In this case, we use Census data from 2000 and 2010 and find that each Asian arrival in a district leads to the departure of -1.5 white households with children, a number very similar to our baseline estimate."
- et-al 3y agoHere's the actual paper: https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31434/w31434.pdf https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w31434/w314... DOI 10.3386/w31434 (not on sci-hub yet)
- abeppu 3y agoI guess it's a bad sign for the discussion that currently the two posts trying to point to the actual document are at the very bottom.
- faeriechangling 3y agoHonestly sounds like a group of people who got paid money to spread speculative racist theories. They in no way established the argument they were proposing, they just eliminated other arguments and just speculated as to what the explanation could be. In this case white jealousy of Asians. This all being said, if we see a huge surge in white flight after the end of affirmative action I guess I'll have to eat crow. If their theory is correct and facts > my feelings that's exactly what we will see. If their theory is just racist bunkum we'll see no such thing.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- wang_li 3y agoIf there’s a school that can enroll one thousand students and you enroll fifty additional Asian students they will displace other fifty other students. If the majority is white it seems to reason that the majority of those displaced will be white. Also one would have to considered the policy around admissions regarding things like affirmative action and equity.
- seiferteric 3y agoI had this thought also, but _surely_ they must control for that right??? Also, maybe there is an average family size difference? Not sure. But ya given this is CA we are talking about here, the housing stock in a given area (in the rich areas anyway) is basically static, I would think its basically zero sum, if one family is moving in, another is moving out (displacement).
- usaar333 3y agoThat's not what the paper is about at all; it specifically notes that white students leave at higher rates than Asian ones come in. That is total enrollment in the schools are decreasing.
- MightyBuzzard 3y ago[dead]
- motohagiography 3y agoA lot of this could be explained by americans just selling their properties to people who made their money in less progressive societies and economies. Coming to the US means you are in an upper income and education percentile in your home country, which may have over a billion people. Compared to someone from India who was educated internationally or is the child of a party member in China, the average american is a bumpkin. Wealth from more unequal societies across the pacific is on a level most westerners can't comprehend. Why shouldn't it be the case that middle class americans use the money from much wealthier newcomers to move to places they know they can thrive outside the main cities, but where newcomers would have thinner networks and fewer opportunities? It was white flight when immigration rates were much lower and cities like Detroit needed a business tax base but exiled it by electing marxists in the 70s and 80s, where now, wealth comes from overseas and cities don't need "white" people to fund them. Whether Asian immigrants will also leave cities as they collapse under similar policies remains to be seen, as no matter how chaotic SF gets, it will never approach anything on the level of a BRIC megacity. Racism seems like the simplest explanation, but that's all it is, and it's getting boring.
- sfmike 3y agoa wise parent right now would certainly be having their child learn some mandarin in youth
- meowtimemania 3y agoHow would knowing “some” mandarin be helpful to American kids?
- sfmike 3y agowhy would most of the curriculum be helpful?
- Dig1t 3y agoI moved out of the Bay a few years ago and I do feel out of place in Cupertino when I go back to visit. It feels like Chinatown, literally every single restaurant is Chinese, Japanese, or Korean and most businesses I used to visit have been replaced with boba shops and after school tutoring centers. I don’t hate Asian people, my best friend is Chinese, but I do feel like I do not belong when I hang out there. Their culture is pretty insular, rather than assimilating with American culture it feels like they just keep their own and the sense of being an outsider is strong when I spend time with my friends there. On the whole I am glad I moved out to a place where I have more in common with my neighbors and we share more cultural similarities.
- sublinear 3y ago> On the whole I am glad I moved out to a place where I have more in common with my neighbors and we share more cultural similarities. I think it's strange that we agonize over race-based cultural differences, but totally accept socioeconomic differences without question. It's okay to say "I don't wanna live in the ghetto", but not okay to say "I don't want to live in a culturally unassimilated neighborhood"