23 ms·

A beautiful, broken America: what I learned on a 2,800-mile bus ride

151 points by stryan 3y ago

gottorf 3y ago
It's a good read. Even over 15 years ago, as a newcomer to this country, I found Greyhound rides to be fascinating, while certainly not being well-run by any stretch of the imagination. And it does expose you to parts of American society that those on the right-hand side of the distribution don't often see. > something I saw repeatedly: the exclusion of those without smartphones or credit cards. The cashless society appears to be winning. > “As of 25 January 2023 – you will need photo ID to buy tickets.” Yet another barrier between those with little money, no fixed address, no car, no passport or credit card and their ability to travel. I'm in favor of retaining (both legally as well as culturally) cash as a medium of exchange, as well as maintaining and restoring a high-trust, cohesive society where most private transactions don't require showing one's papers. Unfortunately, powerful forces are against both. Cash transactors have long been treated with suspicion by authorities, and the coming age of CBDC will further demean what it even means to have money. And the security state continues to impose one checkpoint after another on civil society, which I have no doubt was behind Greyhound's policy on requiring ID. I'd certainly vote for a congressperson that would take action on either of those matters. > Greyhound stations now often close between buses to keep homeless people out – yet another communal space closed to those without the money to access private spaces Greyhound stations shouldn't also need to be homeless shelters, and it seems like smart business to spare paying customers from the antisocial, erratic behavior exhibited by many homeless people. This seems like a strange ding on Greyhound.
- azinman2 3y ago
  > Greyhound stations shouldn't also need to be homeless shelters, and it seems like smart business to spare paying customers from the antisocial, erratic behavior exhibited by many homeless people. This seems like a strange ding on Greyhound. Except if you're waiting for your bus, it sounds like there's no where to go?
  - hattmall 3y ago
    The homeless people are still there, just outside, you can wait with them!
- johnny22 3y ago
  I'vehad to wait 6 hours between buses during a transfer. I sure hope they aren't stopping that :(
- komali2 3y ago
  > And the security state continues to impose one checkpoint after another on civil society, which I have no doubt was behind Greyhound's policy on requiring ID. Greyhound and Amtrak are notorious for being randomly boarded by CBP, who go down the aisle bullying people to consent to a search. Something like 90% consent despite absolutely no need to. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/amtrak-reader-letters/393710/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/amtrak-...
  - l3mure 3y ago
    DEA too as the article mentions. I've been on a bus that was stopped in the middle of the route to walk a dog through it. Pretty fucked.
- pc86 3y ago
  The last point is a problem (on both sides) but it seems to have a simple fix - a small area where you can buy tickets, and a larger area where you need a ticket to access. You can trespass homeless out of the smaller public area if you need to (you very likely don't) and if you have a ticket you belong in the ticketed area whether you're homeless or not.
  - jdeibele 3y ago
    I needed to get from Portland to Eugene. In Oregon, there's a bus service that's paid with some state funding that goes from train station parking lot to train station parking lot. I wanted to use the restroom at Union Station in Portland and the security guard required me to show him that I had a valid ticket to stay in the building. So it was kind of like what you are suggesting.
- 13of40 3y ago
  Not trying to put on a tinfoil hat here, but there's a clause in the laws about Real ID that says you can only have one form of it. I think they put that in there so they have the option of revoking it and preventing people from traveling inside the US by driving (since it's tied to your license), taking the Greyhound, Amtrak, plane, etc. Interstate travel is supposed to be a constitutional right, but I suppose the argument would be that you're free to hire a chauffer or walk if you need to get to Nebraska.
  - paulcole 3y ago
    If that comment isn’t you putting on a tinfoil hat, I’m not sure what would be.
    - 13of40 3y ago
      The thing that made me think of it was that several years ago I went on vacation to a different state and when I got there the rental car company turned me away because my license had expired a couple of days prior. I hopped in a cab, went to the local DMV, and got a new license. When I returned to my home state I renewed my license there, and all was good, until a couple of years later I went to add an endorsement or something and mentioned that I had a backup driver's license from that other state that was still valid. Nope, they said, that's illegal because it means we can't revoke your driving privileges if we need to, and they made me destroy it. So why would they prevent me from having two forms of Real ID, like a driver's license from one state and an ID card from another state? Presumably each one is vetted to the point that there's no question about its authenticity.
      - ethbr0 3y ago
        I'd expect it's more to do with various entities checking Real ID to verify residency for the purpose of state benefits and voting. It looks like it's a DHS regulation (?), but I'd assume states were supportive because it made their lives easier. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/6/37.29 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/6/37.29 You could probably skirt around the rules by applying for and keeping a passport, which isn't tied to a physical address.
- midoridensha 3y ago
  >I'm in favor of retaining (both legally as well as culturally) cash as a medium of exchange, as well as maintaining and restoring a high-trust, cohesive society where most private transactions don't require showing one's papers. America has *never* been a high-trust, cohesive society, and it never will. Just ask any black person. Maybe decades ago, in some isolated small towns with zero diversity, there was a high-trust situation since everyone knew everyone, but it's never been high-trust nationwide.
  - gottorf 3y ago
    It's still relatively high-trust, though you are right not in the same way as other high-trust societies that are also monoethnic. There actually aren't that many places in the world (monoethnic or not) where you can order takeout food online and just show up to the restaurant, claim that you are so-and-so who ordered the food, and take it, without providing any proof (whether it be ID or an order number, what have you). > Just ask any black person. For what it's worth, I live in a Deep South city that is majority black. I used to live in a major coastal metropolis, widely considered to be very "open-minded" on race, with a single-digit percent black population. I think blacks and whites get along better here than they did back there. It's certainly not that case here that black people are treated with suspicion on a day-to-day basis.
    - pauldenton 3y ago
      Next you'll say race relations were better before Obama in the Bush years and after Obama in the Trump years.
      - nebula8804 3y ago
        Maybe the delineation should be before and after the "social media era"
      - gottorf 3y ago
        I wasn't in this country for most of the Bush years, so you'll have to tell me how it was. But if you ask me in general, focusing our attentions on our differences and pitting people against each other on racial boundaries isn't the way to make progress on the issue. Is your point that I must be mistaken about race relations being better in the South than in coastal metropolises? Where I used to live, it was the kind of neighborhood with BLM signs on every other lawn, and approximately zero black people living there. Where I live now, there are approximately zero BLM signs on lawns, but plenty of people of different races living as neighbors, coworkers, friends, and lovers. Actual black people are moving back to the South[0], while champions of diversity are moving to less diverse places[1]. If that wasn't your point, please do tell. [0]: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-new-great-migration-black-americans-return-to-the-south-1965-2000/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-new-great-migration-b... [1]: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ssqu.13268 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ssqu.13268
- beej71 3y ago
  I'm on a European vacation right now, and I think this will be the first long trip I've made here where I don't have any cash at all. Even the pay kiosk at a remote lake at the end of a dirt road back home takes credit cards. Solar powered, cell.
- WeylandYutani 3y ago
  That's not really an exclusive American thing. In the Netherlands everyone is legally required to carry a valid ID.
  - zaccusl 3y ago
    It's typically considered an anti-American, anti-freedom ideology in the US to require people to carry any sort of documents, including ID. Of course, this idea is slowly being eroded by authoritarian ideas and if you are not white (in the southwest US at least) you better have an ID unless you want to risk being unlawfully detained/arrested by border guards or police. This has been a big deal in some states for quite a while now. But it used to be that in the US, having to show authorities an ID was a horror straight out of the USSR or East Germany.
irrational 3y ago
> I knew I would encounter ecological catastrophe. I expected the poisoning of rivers, the desecration of desert ecosystems and feedlots heaving with antibiotic-infused cattle. I've traveled all over the USA and I don't think any of the above would match my expectations before setting out. It seems like she already had her mind set on looking for the negatives.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- intalentive 3y ago
  It’s the Guardian
- Supermancho 3y ago
  > I expected the poisoning of rivers, the desecration of desert ecosystems and feedlots heaving with antibiotic-infused cattle. Other than the vast herds in central california, moved from Corona california (due to climate), I've never thought "hey I might run into..." any of these things. If you go from Seattle to Minneapolis, you don't see any of this, afaik.
- strken 3y ago
  In fairness to her, I went into a US Greyhound trip expecting it to be like long distance Australian coaches and got a similar impression to hers. Crumbling mouldy stations. Buses that were four hours late with no announcement, and staff that literally laughed and said "it's Greyhound" when asked how late the bus would be. Weird invasive disempowering things, like bag checks because someone was seen flicking a knife shut in the station, or getting kicked out of the station to wait. Every other passenger was hostile at needing to run the Greyhound gauntlet, with the exception of the meth addict from Arizona who was absolutely lovely and had a nice chat with me, and I couldn't blame them for it. It's hard to describe because it sounds like the kind of problems that apply to any bus system. They are, but for some reason they happen every trip with Greyhound, and they're all dialled up to 11. Anyone who's ridden one has the most godawful stories about it.
- syndicatedjelly 3y ago
MattyRad 3y ago
This was a pretty good read, if somewhat depressing. One optimistic thing I've noticed with respect to cheap (close-distance) travel is that personal electric scooters and bikes are becoming more noticeable on streets and sidewalks. I own a scooter and have considered consolidating vehicles with my wife, since I ride my scooter to work (winters are the main drawback). Transportation is called out specifically as a reason for dread in this terrific article https://www.residentcontrarian.com/i/32348260/transportation https://www.residentcontrarian.com/i/32348260/transportation Hopefully small electric transport can help.
- rufus_foreman 3y ago
  >> personal electric scooters and bikes are becoming more noticeable on streets and sidewalks How long does it take to get from Detroit to LA on a personal electric scooter?
  - kylehotchkiss 3y ago
    This sounds like the beginning to an excellent Youtube series!
  - throw0101c 3y ago
    These fellows did it in sixty-two days: * https://electrek.co/2020/08/27/segway-teases-new-electric-moped-after-4000-mile-cross-country-e-scooter-ride/ https://electrek.co/2020/08/27/segway-teases-new-electric-mo... * https://web.archive.org/web/20230507093230/https://riderguide.com/blog/scooter-crossing-documentary/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230507093230/https://riderguid... * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw_PSH8MBTc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw_PSH8MBTc * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransAmerica_Bicycle_Trail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransAmerica_Bicycle_Trail That was going a max of 18.6 mi/h (30 km/h); there are ones that can go >90 km/h: * https://escooternerds.com/fastest-electric-scooters/ https://escooternerds.com/fastest-electric-scooters/
    - rahimnathwani 3y ago
      swapping out scooters as each battery was depleted to avoid waiting around while the scooters charged. That doesn't seem feasible for a regular journey.
RandallBrown 3y ago
I took a long greyhound trip from Los Angeles to the small border town of Lordsburg New Mexico as part of a longer trip from Seattle. It was awful. The trip started off okay. The Greyhound station in LA isn't in a super nice part of town and it was pretty run down and dirty. There were probably about 15 of us on the bus at first and we had plenty of room to spread out and put our luggage on the seats. Eventually we kept picking up more people and by the time we got to San Bernardino, the bus was full and people would need to move their luggage. This was at about 1 am and the people getting on without seats were ANGRY. I thought several fights were going to break out but luckily none did. The driver didn't speak very good English so he wasn't super useful in helping with the conflict. All through the night about a dozen people were watching movies or playing games on their phone with the sound on. There was also a pair of kittens someone had that meowed quite a bit. Lots of talking all night long as well. Every few hours we would stop for gas or a rest break. On one of the longer legs people started complaining that they needed to stop and smoke. Every stop people would rush off the bus and light up immediately. We stopped in Tucson to switch busses but due to the driver's poor English and most people's misunderstanding of the bus schedule, I somehow became the only person that could answer the questions like "Why are we stopping? Why are we changing busses? How long do we have to wait?" The lady that sat next to me had a giant pillow covered in stains. She was a nice lady, but clearly was having a pretty rough go of it. Most of the people on the bus seemed like that. Eventually we got to my destination and the stop was a McDonalds in town. The driver gave everyone time to get off the bus and get some food. A homeless man with no shoes got off and was asking people in the McDonalds line if they could buy him a coffee. I bought him a whole breakfast before walking straight to the Comfort Inn next door and booking a room to finally get some sleep and take a shower. It was an interesting experience, but I would never do something like that again if I didn't have to. I had originally booked a train all the way from Seattle. My train from LA to Lordsburg got canceled and I needed to scramble to make it to my destination. The first leg of the train trip was delightful.
- friend_and_foe 3y ago
  I wonder what it was like 30 years ago. I would guess some of the same people rode these busses? Were they always like this? I assume the mad dash for the door to have a smoke has been around about as long as restrictions on smoking, before that the bus would've been unbearable to a non smoker. What I really wonder about this all: was america always like this but people were just more OK rubbing shoulders with each other's filth and sweat in those days, or are these people hollowed out, dying versions of the Americans of yesteryear? What's changed: our willingness to tolerate the greasy, sweaty animals that we are and that surround us, or the health of our society?
Terr_ 3y ago
> The quaintness Beauvoir describes in 1947 [...] of bus stations with restaurants, juke boxes, showers and lockers she compares to columbariums. With all these comparisons it's worth checking whether the price of the product itself (and therefore expected quality) may have changed. TLDR: A difference, but not as big as I expected. AFAICT in 1950 it was $12 for a one way trip between Seattle and San-Francisco [0], or about $152 adjusting for inflation. Today the trip is $90-$110 [1]. [0] https://www.periodpaper.com/products/1950-ad-greyhound-bus-ticket-round-trip-fares-price-america-tours-one-way-travel-097761-lf3-300 https://www.periodpaper.com/products/1950-ad-greyhound-bus-t... [1] https://www.greyhound.com/en-us/bus-from-seattle-to-san-francisco https://www.greyhound.com/en-us/bus-from-seattle-to-san-fran...
- Terr_ 3y ago
  P.S.: While this time it wasn't a big difference, for contrast I'll recycle this comment from two days ago about air-travel: > It's kind of like looking at airplanes of the 1950s, with beds and champagne and caviar, and ruefully comparing them to the ones of the 2020s. > Is it because airlines became greedier? Did the average passenger (in the same income-bracket) lose their desire for fine things? Nah: It's probably because once you remember to adjust for inflation, those 1950s passengers were paying $7,300 per flight instead of today's $600.
  - gottorf 3y ago
    And for flights especially, the modern flyer has repeated indicated over decades that they are willing to forego many nice things for cheaper fares. When the consumer wants a commoditized flying bus, the consumer will get one.
  - throwawaymobule 3y ago
    $600 still seems really high to me as a European. Busses here are more expensive than flying, however. Even if the bus ticket itself might be slightly cheaper than in the us. Hopefully costs keep going down, inflation adjusted.
kylehotchkiss 3y ago
Author should do the same trip by train now. Seems like more people are taking advantage of the long distance Amtrak trains and thankfully there's been funding to keep those around.
- bombcar 3y ago
  Long distance trains are much more expensive and you get a very different clientele - retirees, those unable to fly due to medical reasons, fear, etc, and random train nuts. The conductors also don’t have any truck with disruptive behavior.
- up2isomorphism 3y ago
  So out of touch.
komali2 3y ago
I appreciate gonzo journalists like hunter s Thompson or Andrew Callaghan for showing what I always considered "real America" and "real Americans." The people you meet at the DMV, the people that live in that one town that's copy pasted on every freeway in the country. If you like stories like this I highly recommend reading some hunter s or watching some of Callaghan's videos.
- shostack 3y ago
  In your opinion what makes these people more "real" than other Americans?
  - xpe 3y ago
    I’ve thought about this topic many times. At times, I’ve found the conflation of various meanings of “real” to be confusing at best, but more often, I find it to be a mark of confusion. Coming to the conclusion that someone else is likely confused may seem uncharitable. (At the very least, blending meanings in this way is prone to misinterpretation.) Nevertheless, criticizing word choice and conceptual understandings is important, particularly in any culture (especially mainstream American society) that too often skips over self-reflection. While thinking about “real America” most recently, I had a conversation with ChatGPT while reviewing the English Stack Exchange[1] and various etymology web sites. As a result of this research and conversation, this response emerged *: > Dictionaries define "real" as "actually existing or happening, not imaginary, not fake or artificial." When used in the context of describing people or groups, "real" often signifies something genuine, authentic, or without pretense. > Now to the claim: when "real" is used to describe communities or individuals, it is often in contrast to something perceived as inauthentic or disconnected from the majority's experiences. The term "grassroots," for instance, refers to the most basic level of an activity or organization, therefore, when someone talks about "real" people or "real" America, they often imply these grassroots, everyday experiences. > Poverty, while a difficult and complex issue, is an experience that many people across the world can relate to or understand. The struggles associated with financial hardship often seem more "real" because they are visceral and undeniable. > On the other hand, wealth, especially extreme wealth, is experienced by a smaller portion of the population. The lifestyle of the rich and entitled often includes privileges and luxuries that the majority do not have access to, which might make their experiences seem less "real" or relatable to many. The wealthy are often seen as living in a kind of "bubble" that separates them from the rest of society. > It's worth noting, however, that "real" is a subjective term in these contexts and its usage can vary greatly depending on who is speaking and their perspective. People of all economic statuses have "real" experiences, but societal narratives and cultural biases often shape how we use and understand terms like this. I think this writing is somewhat useful. You? P.S. A few words of pre-defense against knee-jerk criticisms of my use of ChatGPT here. I consistently use it conscientiously and critically. I’ll grant that I might write something better if I did 10+ hours of concentrated research. In this case, I combined my experience with ~20 minutes of thinking. * I say emerged deliberatively. The way that I use interactive AI technologies is shaped by my experience, education, and skepticism. Don’t assume that generative text is roughly in the same ballpark; the difference in quality is substantial based on how a human asks. The text is path-dependent; you would get quite different results. [1] https://english.stackexchange.com https://english.stackexchange.com
avalys 3y ago
What she learned is that America is so rich that only the very poorest people near homelessness travel on a Greyhound bus, and that life for the very poorest people is unpleasant. Is this supposed to be a surprise? It certainly isn't representative of America as a whole, regardless of whether she geographically traversed America in the process. She chose to travel America in literally the shittiest possible way besides maybe hitchhiking or walking on the side of the road.
- pxmpxm 3y ago
  Also that policemen are armed.
- durkie 3y ago
  does it need to be surprising?
  - sixstringtheory 3y ago
    I don’t think so, but the tone of the article seems to indicate it.
- etempleton 3y ago
  I agree. I think there is a potential commentary about the bifurcation of America—I think it is getting harder to be poor, but the Greyhound just isn’t the transportation for the working class like it used to be. Most everyone flies any trip that is of sufficient length. The Greyhound, motels, etc are all dying. There just isn’t as much need for them anymore and there are alternatives. As the author said, she found a much nicer hotel for even cheaper.
- janalsncm 3y ago
  It’s sad but it’s a problem that compounds. Middle class don’t take greyhound because it’s awful, so ticket prices drop and it gets even worse.
- weregiraffe 3y ago
  >Is this supposed to be a surprise? It remains a constant surprise that the richest country on Earth can't make life better for its poorest homeless people.
js2 3y ago
This American Life, episode 102 (May 22, 1998): > Act One, Busman's Holiday. Regular listeners to our program may remember Dishwasher Pete who travels from state to state washing dishes and publishing his zine Dishwasher. Usually he only stays in one place for a few weeks. And then he takes the Greyhound bus to the next town. Lately he's been living in Portland. But he was only too happy to get back on the bus. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/102/road-trip https://www.thisamericanlife.org/102/road-trip
anymouse123456 3y ago
I took a Greyhound from Florida to California in 1992 because I couldn't afford airfare, and Greyhound was offering $69 one way anywhere in the US. It wasn't a sociological experiment, it was my life. It was 3 days and 3 nights on half a dozen buses. It was sad and scary and difficult for everyone. No one that I saw could afford hotel rooms. We all slept wherever we could. Sounds like it hasn't changed much.
thesaintlives 3y ago
I am a white European and took a greyhound bus on a 12 hour night journey approximately 20 years ago. It was an experience to put it mildly. The words 'prison transport' and 'LSD' spring to mind. Inhumane, degrading, uncomfortable and totally weird. For some god unknown reason I decided the bus would be a perfectly good alternative to a short flight, my was I wrong. As the journey started the driver made a short announcement to the seated passengers - "If you smoke crack I throw you off the bus. If you have sex I throw you off the bus. If you drink alcohol I throw you off the bus. If you take off your shoes I throw you off the bus. No toilet!" With that strange welcome we were off. The seats had no padding so it was impossible to get comfortable. It was cold. We were in late October just before winter. It was bloody cold to be clear, in fact the air conditioning was seriously blowing. Maybe it was colder inside than out. Non of this made any sense to me. As we continued through the darkened landscape stopping occasionally to pick up, drop off and 'toilet' I decided to ask the driver if maybe he could turn off the chill air blast and maybe turn on some heat. I politely presented this request to which his reply was simply a shout: 'NO!'. "No?" I am freezing to death I told him. "What do you mean no?" "The smell" he said. "The smell. Any more trouble and I throw you off the bus." At one place we stopped for about 40 minutes. It was some sort of downtown bus station. I witnessed a huge black dude walk through the seating area masturbating with his pants down around his ankles, otherwise fully clothed. He sort of shuffled past lost in a world entirely of his own. USA is one strange place..
- syndicatedjelly 3y ago
  I really love it when foreigners visit this country and pick the absolute worst possible traveling conditions imaginable. Presumably so they can go back home and share their "authentic" American experience with whoever is stupid enough to listen. It's like they enjoy wearing this badge of honor that they witnessed the misery that is America or whatever. Were you expecting something better because you're a "white European"? I don't really get why that prefaced the story. I'm not white and I've never had such a bad experience as you in any country, let alone America, am I doing something wrong? How would it be if I visited wherever you're from and proud of, and intentionally stayed in a terrible part of town and got around by bullock cart, and then went back to America and bitched incessantly about your shithole of a country?
AndrewKemendo 3y ago
Sounds like there’s an opportunity for some enterprising person to make an alternative to what sounds like another quasi-monopoly
paulette449 3y ago
If you're wealthy, want to avoid the hoi polloi but still travel by bus, there's an option for you [1]. I've only taken short bus rides in the US (Trailways mainly) but have traveled long distance on Amtrak. The rolling stock is horrendously out of date but they are spacious, the staff are always amazing and you meet super interesting people from all walks of life in the dining car - where you are forced to sit with strangers - never something I'm eager to do but always something I'm grateful for afterwards. [1] - https://thejet.coach/features-amenities/ https://thejet.coach/features-amenities/
throwaway5959 3y ago
What is the point of this story? To show how broken the US is by choosing the cheapest, dirtiest possible options in the worst cities in the US?

151 points by stryan 3y ago

It's a good read. Even over 15 years ago, as a newcomer to this country, I found Greyhound rides to be fascinating, while certainly not being well-run by any stretch of the imagination. And it does expose you to parts of American society that those on the right-hand side of the distribution don't often see. > something I saw repeatedly: the exclusion of those without smartphones or credit cards. The cashless society appears to be winning. > “As of 25 January 2023 – you will need photo ID to buy tickets.” Yet another barrier between those with little money, no fixed address, no car, no passport or credit card and their ability to travel. I'm in favor of retaining (both legally as well as culturally) cash as a medium of exchange, as well as maintaining and restoring a high-trust, cohesive society where most private transactions don't require showing one's papers. Unfortunately, powerful forces are against both. Cash transactors have long been treated with suspicion by authorities, and the coming age of CBDC will further demean what it even means to have money. And the security state continues to impose one checkpoint after another on civil society, which I have no doubt was behind Greyhound's policy on requiring ID. I'd certainly vote for a congressperson that would take action on either of those matters. > Greyhound stations now often close between buses to keep homeless people out – yet another communal space closed to those without the money to access private spaces Greyhound stations shouldn't also need to be homeless shelters, and it seems like smart business to spare paying customers from the antisocial, erratic behavior exhibited by many homeless people. This seems like a strange ding on Greyhound.

azinman2 3y ago
> Greyhound stations shouldn't also need to be homeless shelters, and it seems like smart business to spare paying customers from the antisocial, erratic behavior exhibited by many homeless people. This seems like a strange ding on Greyhound. Except if you're waiting for your bus, it sounds like there's no where to go?
- hattmall 3y ago
  The homeless people are still there, just outside, you can wait with them!
johnny22 3y ago
I'vehad to wait 6 hours between buses during a transfer. I sure hope they aren't stopping that :(
komali2 3y ago
> And the security state continues to impose one checkpoint after another on civil society, which I have no doubt was behind Greyhound's policy on requiring ID. Greyhound and Amtrak are notorious for being randomly boarded by CBP, who go down the aisle bullying people to consent to a search. Something like 90% consent despite absolutely no need to. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/amtrak-reader-letters/393710/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/amtrak-...
- l3mure 3y ago
  DEA too as the article mentions. I've been on a bus that was stopped in the middle of the route to walk a dog through it. Pretty fucked.
pc86 3y ago
The last point is a problem (on both sides) but it seems to have a simple fix - a small area where you can buy tickets, and a larger area where you need a ticket to access. You can trespass homeless out of the smaller public area if you need to (you very likely don't) and if you have a ticket you belong in the ticketed area whether you're homeless or not.
- jdeibele 3y ago
  I needed to get from Portland to Eugene. In Oregon, there's a bus service that's paid with some state funding that goes from train station parking lot to train station parking lot. I wanted to use the restroom at Union Station in Portland and the security guard required me to show him that I had a valid ticket to stay in the building. So it was kind of like what you are suggesting.
13of40 3y ago
Not trying to put on a tinfoil hat here, but there's a clause in the laws about Real ID that says you can only have one form of it. I think they put that in there so they have the option of revoking it and preventing people from traveling inside the US by driving (since it's tied to your license), taking the Greyhound, Amtrak, plane, etc. Interstate travel is supposed to be a constitutional right, but I suppose the argument would be that you're free to hire a chauffer or walk if you need to get to Nebraska.
- paulcole 3y ago
  If that comment isn’t you putting on a tinfoil hat, I’m not sure what would be.
  - 13of40 3y ago
    The thing that made me think of it was that several years ago I went on vacation to a different state and when I got there the rental car company turned me away because my license had expired a couple of days prior. I hopped in a cab, went to the local DMV, and got a new license. When I returned to my home state I renewed my license there, and all was good, until a couple of years later I went to add an endorsement or something and mentioned that I had a backup driver's license from that other state that was still valid. Nope, they said, that's illegal because it means we can't revoke your driving privileges if we need to, and they made me destroy it. So why would they prevent me from having two forms of Real ID, like a driver's license from one state and an ID card from another state? Presumably each one is vetted to the point that there's no question about its authenticity.
    - ethbr0 3y ago
      I'd expect it's more to do with various entities checking Real ID to verify residency for the purpose of state benefits and voting. It looks like it's a DHS regulation (?), but I'd assume states were supportive because it made their lives easier. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/6/37.29 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/6/37.29 You could probably skirt around the rules by applying for and keeping a passport, which isn't tied to a physical address.
midoridensha 3y ago
>I'm in favor of retaining (both legally as well as culturally) cash as a medium of exchange, as well as maintaining and restoring a high-trust, cohesive society where most private transactions don't require showing one's papers. America has *never* been a high-trust, cohesive society, and it never will. Just ask any black person. Maybe decades ago, in some isolated small towns with zero diversity, there was a high-trust situation since everyone knew everyone, but it's never been high-trust nationwide.
- gottorf 3y ago
  It's still relatively high-trust, though you are right not in the same way as other high-trust societies that are also monoethnic. There actually aren't that many places in the world (monoethnic or not) where you can order takeout food online and just show up to the restaurant, claim that you are so-and-so who ordered the food, and take it, without providing any proof (whether it be ID or an order number, what have you). > Just ask any black person. For what it's worth, I live in a Deep South city that is majority black. I used to live in a major coastal metropolis, widely considered to be very "open-minded" on race, with a single-digit percent black population. I think blacks and whites get along better here than they did back there. It's certainly not that case here that black people are treated with suspicion on a day-to-day basis.
  - pauldenton 3y ago
    Next you'll say race relations were better before Obama in the Bush years and after Obama in the Trump years.
    - nebula8804 3y ago
      Maybe the delineation should be before and after the "social media era"
    - gottorf 3y ago
      I wasn't in this country for most of the Bush years, so you'll have to tell me how it was. But if you ask me in general, focusing our attentions on our differences and pitting people against each other on racial boundaries isn't the way to make progress on the issue. Is your point that I must be mistaken about race relations being better in the South than in coastal metropolises? Where I used to live, it was the kind of neighborhood with BLM signs on every other lawn, and approximately zero black people living there. Where I live now, there are approximately zero BLM signs on lawns, but plenty of people of different races living as neighbors, coworkers, friends, and lovers. Actual black people are moving back to the South[0], while champions of diversity are moving to less diverse places[1]. If that wasn't your point, please do tell. [0]: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-new-great-migration-black-americans-return-to-the-south-1965-2000/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-new-great-migration-b... [1]: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ssqu.13268 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ssqu.13268
beej71 3y ago
I'm on a European vacation right now, and I think this will be the first long trip I've made here where I don't have any cash at all. Even the pay kiosk at a remote lake at the end of a dirt road back home takes credit cards. Solar powered, cell.
WeylandYutani 3y ago
That's not really an exclusive American thing. In the Netherlands everyone is legally required to carry a valid ID.
- zaccusl 3y ago
  It's typically considered an anti-American, anti-freedom ideology in the US to require people to carry any sort of documents, including ID. Of course, this idea is slowly being eroded by authoritarian ideas and if you are not white (in the southwest US at least) you better have an ID unless you want to risk being unlawfully detained/arrested by border guards or police. This has been a big deal in some states for quite a while now. But it used to be that in the US, having to show authorities an ID was a horror straight out of the USSR or East Germany.

irrational 3y ago

> I knew I would encounter ecological catastrophe. I expected the poisoning of rivers, the desecration of desert ecosystems and feedlots heaving with antibiotic-infused cattle. I've traveled all over the USA and I don't think any of the above would match my expectations before setting out. It seems like she already had her mind set on looking for the negatives.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
intalentive 3y ago
It’s the Guardian
Supermancho 3y ago
> I expected the poisoning of rivers, the desecration of desert ecosystems and feedlots heaving with antibiotic-infused cattle. Other than the vast herds in central california, moved from Corona california (due to climate), I've never thought "hey I might run into..." any of these things. If you go from Seattle to Minneapolis, you don't see any of this, afaik.
strken 3y ago
In fairness to her, I went into a US Greyhound trip expecting it to be like long distance Australian coaches and got a similar impression to hers. Crumbling mouldy stations. Buses that were four hours late with no announcement, and staff that literally laughed and said "it's Greyhound" when asked how late the bus would be. Weird invasive disempowering things, like bag checks because someone was seen flicking a knife shut in the station, or getting kicked out of the station to wait. Every other passenger was hostile at needing to run the Greyhound gauntlet, with the exception of the meth addict from Arizona who was absolutely lovely and had a nice chat with me, and I couldn't blame them for it. It's hard to describe because it sounds like the kind of problems that apply to any bus system. They are, but for some reason they happen every trip with Greyhound, and they're all dialled up to 11. Anyone who's ridden one has the most godawful stories about it.
syndicatedjelly 3y ago

MattyRad 3y ago

This was a pretty good read, if somewhat depressing. One optimistic thing I've noticed with respect to cheap (close-distance) travel is that personal electric scooters and bikes are becoming more noticeable on streets and sidewalks. I own a scooter and have considered consolidating vehicles with my wife, since I ride my scooter to work (winters are the main drawback). Transportation is called out specifically as a reason for dread in this terrific article https://www.residentcontrarian.com/i/32348260/transportation https://www.residentcontrarian.com/i/32348260/transportation Hopefully small electric transport can help.

rufus_foreman 3y ago
>> personal electric scooters and bikes are becoming more noticeable on streets and sidewalks How long does it take to get from Detroit to LA on a personal electric scooter?
- kylehotchkiss 3y ago
  This sounds like the beginning to an excellent Youtube series!
- throw0101c 3y ago
  These fellows did it in sixty-two days: * https://electrek.co/2020/08/27/segway-teases-new-electric-moped-after-4000-mile-cross-country-e-scooter-ride/ https://electrek.co/2020/08/27/segway-teases-new-electric-mo... * https://web.archive.org/web/20230507093230/https://riderguide.com/blog/scooter-crossing-documentary/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230507093230/https://riderguid... * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw_PSH8MBTc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dw_PSH8MBTc * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransAmerica_Bicycle_Trail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TransAmerica_Bicycle_Trail That was going a max of 18.6 mi/h (30 km/h); there are ones that can go >90 km/h: * https://escooternerds.com/fastest-electric-scooters/ https://escooternerds.com/fastest-electric-scooters/
  - rahimnathwani 3y ago
    swapping out scooters as each battery was depleted to avoid waiting around while the scooters charged. That doesn't seem feasible for a regular journey.

RandallBrown 3y ago

I took a long greyhound trip from Los Angeles to the small border town of Lordsburg New Mexico as part of a longer trip from Seattle. It was awful. The trip started off okay. The Greyhound station in LA isn't in a super nice part of town and it was pretty run down and dirty. There were probably about 15 of us on the bus at first and we had plenty of room to spread out and put our luggage on the seats. Eventually we kept picking up more people and by the time we got to San Bernardino, the bus was full and people would need to move their luggage. This was at about 1 am and the people getting on without seats were ANGRY. I thought several fights were going to break out but luckily none did. The driver didn't speak very good English so he wasn't super useful in helping with the conflict. All through the night about a dozen people were watching movies or playing games on their phone with the sound on. There was also a pair of kittens someone had that meowed quite a bit. Lots of talking all night long as well. Every few hours we would stop for gas or a rest break. On one of the longer legs people started complaining that they needed to stop and smoke. Every stop people would rush off the bus and light up immediately. We stopped in Tucson to switch busses but due to the driver's poor English and most people's misunderstanding of the bus schedule, I somehow became the only person that could answer the questions like "Why are we stopping? Why are we changing busses? How long do we have to wait?" The lady that sat next to me had a giant pillow covered in stains. She was a nice lady, but clearly was having a pretty rough go of it. Most of the people on the bus seemed like that. Eventually we got to my destination and the stop was a McDonalds in town. The driver gave everyone time to get off the bus and get some food. A homeless man with no shoes got off and was asking people in the McDonalds line if they could buy him a coffee. I bought him a whole breakfast before walking straight to the Comfort Inn next door and booking a room to finally get some sleep and take a shower. It was an interesting experience, but I would never do something like that again if I didn't have to. I had originally booked a train all the way from Seattle. My train from LA to Lordsburg got canceled and I needed to scramble to make it to my destination. The first leg of the train trip was delightful.

friend_and_foe 3y ago
I wonder what it was like 30 years ago. I would guess some of the same people rode these busses? Were they always like this? I assume the mad dash for the door to have a smoke has been around about as long as restrictions on smoking, before that the bus would've been unbearable to a non smoker. What I really wonder about this all: was america always like this but people were just more OK rubbing shoulders with each other's filth and sweat in those days, or are these people hollowed out, dying versions of the Americans of yesteryear? What's changed: our willingness to tolerate the greasy, sweaty animals that we are and that surround us, or the health of our society?

Terr_ 3y ago

> The quaintness Beauvoir describes in 1947 [...] of bus stations with restaurants, juke boxes, showers and lockers she compares to columbariums. With all these comparisons it's worth checking whether the price of the product itself (and therefore expected quality) may have changed. TLDR: A difference, but not as big as I expected. AFAICT in 1950 it was $12 for a one way trip between Seattle and San-Francisco [0], or about $152 adjusting for inflation. Today the trip is $90-$110 [1]. [0] https://www.periodpaper.com/products/1950-ad-greyhound-bus-ticket-round-trip-fares-price-america-tours-one-way-travel-097761-lf3-300 https://www.periodpaper.com/products/1950-ad-greyhound-bus-t... [1] https://www.greyhound.com/en-us/bus-from-seattle-to-san-francisco https://www.greyhound.com/en-us/bus-from-seattle-to-san-fran...

Terr_ 3y ago
P.S.: While this time it wasn't a big difference, for contrast I'll recycle this comment from two days ago about air-travel: > It's kind of like looking at airplanes of the 1950s, with beds and champagne and caviar, and ruefully comparing them to the ones of the 2020s. > Is it because airlines became greedier? Did the average passenger (in the same income-bracket) lose their desire for fine things? Nah: It's probably because once you remember to adjust for inflation, those 1950s passengers were paying $7,300 per flight instead of today's $600.
- gottorf 3y ago
  And for flights especially, the modern flyer has repeated indicated over decades that they are willing to forego many nice things for cheaper fares. When the consumer wants a commoditized flying bus, the consumer will get one.
- throwawaymobule 3y ago
  $600 still seems really high to me as a European. Busses here are more expensive than flying, however. Even if the bus ticket itself might be slightly cheaper than in the us. Hopefully costs keep going down, inflation adjusted.

kylehotchkiss 3y ago

Author should do the same trip by train now. Seems like more people are taking advantage of the long distance Amtrak trains and thankfully there's been funding to keep those around.

bombcar 3y ago
Long distance trains are much more expensive and you get a very different clientele - retirees, those unable to fly due to medical reasons, fear, etc, and random train nuts. The conductors also don’t have any truck with disruptive behavior.
up2isomorphism 3y ago
So out of touch.

komali2 3y ago

I appreciate gonzo journalists like hunter s Thompson or Andrew Callaghan for showing what I always considered "real America" and "real Americans." The people you meet at the DMV, the people that live in that one town that's copy pasted on every freeway in the country. If you like stories like this I highly recommend reading some hunter s or watching some of Callaghan's videos.

shostack 3y ago
In your opinion what makes these people more "real" than other Americans?
- xpe 3y ago
  I’ve thought about this topic many times. At times, I’ve found the conflation of various meanings of “real” to be confusing at best, but more often, I find it to be a mark of confusion. Coming to the conclusion that someone else is likely confused may seem uncharitable. (At the very least, blending meanings in this way is prone to misinterpretation.) Nevertheless, criticizing word choice and conceptual understandings is important, particularly in any culture (especially mainstream American society) that too often skips over self-reflection. While thinking about “real America” most recently, I had a conversation with ChatGPT while reviewing the English Stack Exchange[1] and various etymology web sites. As a result of this research and conversation, this response emerged *: > Dictionaries define "real" as "actually existing or happening, not imaginary, not fake or artificial." When used in the context of describing people or groups, "real" often signifies something genuine, authentic, or without pretense. > Now to the claim: when "real" is used to describe communities or individuals, it is often in contrast to something perceived as inauthentic or disconnected from the majority's experiences. The term "grassroots," for instance, refers to the most basic level of an activity or organization, therefore, when someone talks about "real" people or "real" America, they often imply these grassroots, everyday experiences. > Poverty, while a difficult and complex issue, is an experience that many people across the world can relate to or understand. The struggles associated with financial hardship often seem more "real" because they are visceral and undeniable. > On the other hand, wealth, especially extreme wealth, is experienced by a smaller portion of the population. The lifestyle of the rich and entitled often includes privileges and luxuries that the majority do not have access to, which might make their experiences seem less "real" or relatable to many. The wealthy are often seen as living in a kind of "bubble" that separates them from the rest of society. > It's worth noting, however, that "real" is a subjective term in these contexts and its usage can vary greatly depending on who is speaking and their perspective. People of all economic statuses have "real" experiences, but societal narratives and cultural biases often shape how we use and understand terms like this. I think this writing is somewhat useful. You? P.S. A few words of pre-defense against knee-jerk criticisms of my use of ChatGPT here. I consistently use it conscientiously and critically. I’ll grant that I might write something better if I did 10+ hours of concentrated research. In this case, I combined my experience with ~20 minutes of thinking. * I say emerged deliberatively. The way that I use interactive AI technologies is shaped by my experience, education, and skepticism. Don’t assume that generative text is roughly in the same ballpark; the difference in quality is substantial based on how a human asks. The text is path-dependent; you would get quite different results. [1] https://english.stackexchange.com https://english.stackexchange.com

avalys 3y ago

What she learned is that America is so rich that only the very poorest people near homelessness travel on a Greyhound bus, and that life for the very poorest people is unpleasant. Is this supposed to be a surprise? It certainly isn't representative of America as a whole, regardless of whether she geographically traversed America in the process. She chose to travel America in literally the shittiest possible way besides maybe hitchhiking or walking on the side of the road.

pxmpxm 3y ago
Also that policemen are armed.
durkie 3y ago
does it need to be surprising?
- sixstringtheory 3y ago
  I don’t think so, but the tone of the article seems to indicate it.
etempleton 3y ago
I agree. I think there is a potential commentary about the bifurcation of America—I think it is getting harder to be poor, but the Greyhound just isn’t the transportation for the working class like it used to be. Most everyone flies any trip that is of sufficient length. The Greyhound, motels, etc are all dying. There just isn’t as much need for them anymore and there are alternatives. As the author said, she found a much nicer hotel for even cheaper.
janalsncm 3y ago
It’s sad but it’s a problem that compounds. Middle class don’t take greyhound because it’s awful, so ticket prices drop and it gets even worse.
weregiraffe 3y ago
>Is this supposed to be a surprise? It remains a constant surprise that the richest country on Earth can't make life better for its poorest homeless people.

js2 3y ago

This American Life, episode 102 (May 22, 1998): > Act One, Busman's Holiday. Regular listeners to our program may remember Dishwasher Pete who travels from state to state washing dishes and publishing his zine Dishwasher. Usually he only stays in one place for a few weeks. And then he takes the Greyhound bus to the next town. Lately he's been living in Portland. But he was only too happy to get back on the bus. https://www.thisamericanlife.org/102/road-trip https://www.thisamericanlife.org/102/road-trip

anymouse123456 3y ago

I took a Greyhound from Florida to California in 1992 because I couldn't afford airfare, and Greyhound was offering $69 one way anywhere in the US. It wasn't a sociological experiment, it was my life. It was 3 days and 3 nights on half a dozen buses. It was sad and scary and difficult for everyone. No one that I saw could afford hotel rooms. We all slept wherever we could. Sounds like it hasn't changed much.

thesaintlives 3y ago

I am a white European and took a greyhound bus on a 12 hour night journey approximately 20 years ago. It was an experience to put it mildly. The words 'prison transport' and 'LSD' spring to mind. Inhumane, degrading, uncomfortable and totally weird. For some god unknown reason I decided the bus would be a perfectly good alternative to a short flight, my was I wrong. As the journey started the driver made a short announcement to the seated passengers - "If you smoke crack I throw you off the bus. If you have sex I throw you off the bus. If you drink alcohol I throw you off the bus. If you take off your shoes I throw you off the bus. No toilet!" With that strange welcome we were off. The seats had no padding so it was impossible to get comfortable. It was cold. We were in late October just before winter. It was bloody cold to be clear, in fact the air conditioning was seriously blowing. Maybe it was colder inside than out. Non of this made any sense to me. As we continued through the darkened landscape stopping occasionally to pick up, drop off and 'toilet' I decided to ask the driver if maybe he could turn off the chill air blast and maybe turn on some heat. I politely presented this request to which his reply was simply a shout: 'NO!'. "No?" I am freezing to death I told him. "What do you mean no?" "The smell" he said. "The smell. Any more trouble and I throw you off the bus." At one place we stopped for about 40 minutes. It was some sort of downtown bus station. I witnessed a huge black dude walk through the seating area masturbating with his pants down around his ankles, otherwise fully clothed. He sort of shuffled past lost in a world entirely of his own. USA is one strange place..

syndicatedjelly 3y ago
I really love it when foreigners visit this country and pick the absolute worst possible traveling conditions imaginable. Presumably so they can go back home and share their "authentic" American experience with whoever is stupid enough to listen. It's like they enjoy wearing this badge of honor that they witnessed the misery that is America or whatever. Were you expecting something better because you're a "white European"? I don't really get why that prefaced the story. I'm not white and I've never had such a bad experience as you in any country, let alone America, am I doing something wrong? How would it be if I visited wherever you're from and proud of, and intentionally stayed in a terrible part of town and got around by bullock cart, and then went back to America and bitched incessantly about your shithole of a country?

AndrewKemendo 3y ago

Sounds like there’s an opportunity for some enterprising person to make an alternative to what sounds like another quasi-monopoly

paulette449 3y ago

If you're wealthy, want to avoid the hoi polloi but still travel by bus, there's an option for you [1]. I've only taken short bus rides in the US (Trailways mainly) but have traveled long distance on Amtrak. The rolling stock is horrendously out of date but they are spacious, the staff are always amazing and you meet super interesting people from all walks of life in the dining car - where you are forced to sit with strangers - never something I'm eager to do but always something I'm grateful for afterwards. [1] - https://thejet.coach/features-amenities/ https://thejet.coach/features-amenities/

throwaway5959 3y ago

What is the point of this story? To show how broken the US is by choosing the cheapest, dirtiest possible options in the worst cities in the US?