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Many people from the government and from the military are putting their reputation and career (and maybe safety) on the line to bring these informations to the

• montagg 3y ago
  If they aren’t bringing evidence, it’s a waste of people’s time. Taking a big risk that is most likely a very bad decision shouldn’t provide any credibility at all. Do that when you can show evidence, and then you have credibility.
  • likeabbas 3y ago
    Grusch gave program names, people involved, and locations of these special access programs purported to be reverse engineering non human technology to the ICIG and both intelligence committees in congress. Call your congressman and ask if he is credible.
    • xnyan 3y ago
      >...ask if he is credible It would not matter if the most credible source alive said it, I would still ask this question: if what they are saying is true, then it's possible to prove it without needing to take what they or anyone else says on faith alone. If you remove what he or people in general from the question, to date I have not found the evidence in support of extraterrestrial visitation of earth very convincing. Plenty of plane-recorded footage capturing strange visuals, but an absolute lack of anything that does not also have a plausible non-alien explanation.
      • likeabbas 3y ago
        You're right to be skeptical of his claims. At the very least, you should support Congress investigating this issue. Because either there are some crazy people with access to the most sensitive state secrets we own, or they are telling the truth and there's been a major coverup for the last 90 years hiding non-human intelligence visiting this planet from elsewhere, and there's technology far beyond what we have created.
        • ChainOfFools 3y ago
          Another possible motivation may be that he doesn't believe that any of this is actually alien technology at all, and that it is in fact a skunk works program he either has stumbled into via some side channel, (and therefore doesn't have direct access to materials that with substantiate his testimony), or he may even know exactly what all this stuff is but can't speak frankly about it because it is protected by top secret protocols that trigger his immediate sanction if abridged, cutting off his only means to publicize them further. In either of these cases if he has decided that these programs are an existential danger to the world and need to be discussed, one way to out maneuver both of the above constraints is to pose as someone who believes they have been convinced the government is concealing "alien" technology, and can use his credentials to push the story farther than any civilian could. He has found that this tactic has given him access to people he otherwise couldn't reach (outside the limited context of his position/rank etc.) tl;dr talking candidly about actual top secret research because he suspects it may constitute an existential threat to humanity if it is developed much further (similar to some early physicists' speculation that testing the H bomb could trigger the earth's atmosphere to burn up as well), that could get him in serious trouble very quickly because he's clearly crossing a line that has been clearly drawn around that information. But revealing it in terms of alien tech, he'll either get dismissed as a crank after his 15 minutrs are up, or he'll have gained access to high ranking civilian legislators long enough (with whom he can discuss the actual details directly in private), until he can find enough sympathetic ears that he feels safe to dispense with the "omg alien tech" camouflage.
          • likeabbas 3y ago
            I’ll just say, he’s testified under oath to the ICIG who found his claims “urgent and credible” (which are legal terms). So with your idea, the ICIG is in on it too?
    • NoPicklez 3y ago
      What can the average person do with program names, people involved and locations? Program names mean nothing unless you can look up their details as they're usually fancy codenames that spark everyone's tin foil hats. Makes for a great news story and a conversation on HN about "what it might be" but apart from that its useless.
      • haswell 3y ago
        > What can the average person do with program names, people involved and locations? What the average person can do with this information is not the point as far as I can tell. This information is being shared with people who are not the average person, and who do have the ability to investigate further.
        • NoPicklez 3y ago
          Watch it definitely not be investigated further and if it does, find nothing
          • likeabbas 3y ago
            You are so wrong. This thing is picking up major steam. https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-rounds-introduce-new-legislation-to-declassify-government-records-related-to-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-and-ufos_modeled-after-jfk-assassination-records-collection-act--as-an-amendment-to-ndaa https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sch...
      • likeabbas 3y ago
        Average person can’t do anything. Congress can investigate and subpoena any and all people involved and force them to disclose what they know. They can also use eminent domain to take the purported technology.
        • icedchai 3y ago
          Call me skeptical, but if this stuff exists, it's been moved to another location already. A congressman isn't going to show up to some base and be given access to the hanger with the UFO in it.
    • AtlasBarfed 3y ago
      So there's been a half century of "reverse engineering", but there is no evidence of aerospace technology leaps in the half-century this has allegedly been going on. Rocket engines, materials engineering, etc, all pretty much have a well laid out public technological evolution, from theory to experimental engineering to productization, distributed across aerospace, materials engineering, etc in thousands of companies and universities and factories. The technologies alleged would transform human existence, and would mean trillions or more commercially. Effortless exploitation of asteroid resources being the low hanging fruit. Even if it isn't an instantaneous interstellar drive, it would imply freedom from gravity wells and practical inter-system transportation. And how is it that there is one pilot that sees UAPs on the regular? This is like the UFO abductee that has been abducted a dozen times. If a pilot is seeing regular UAPs, there will be a hundred pilots seeing this phenomena. Put it to you this way. If we happened to have alien UFOs crashlanding on the planet, it would be of utterly paramount importance that the technological gap represented is closed as soon as possible, for the survival of the species. It would involve every engineer and scientist being read in to get as much reverse engineering probability as possible. It would mean marshalling worldwide resources for exploitation and development of space resources and defenses. I actually like the Robotech / Macross take on this, where the alien SDF-1 crashes on the Earth, and a world war is basically halted in shock. A world government is formed, and immediate worldwide financial reasources are poured into reverse engineering and immediate space-based capabilities developed. That is basically what would happen if the world was shocked by the arrival of technologically superior aliens and we got our hands on some of their technology. As it turns out, the scale of defenses constructed in the ten years after the SDF-1 is a pittance compared to the 4.8 million space cruisers and likely 50+ billion alien soldiers available to the aliens when they arrive. The only way there would be no usable technological reverse engineering is if the arriving UFOs specifically built landing craft with the technological base of the natives, or somehow the technology is black boxed in some way that it degrades/self-destructs if there is a crash.
• throwawaysleep 3y ago
  In exchange for fame and large piles of cash. I'll trade my good name for a few million bucks too.
  • mrguyorama 3y ago
    [flagged]
• uhmyeh 3y ago
  This stuff was popular in the Reagan era too. Odd to see it reappear right after Ronnie Junior left office They need performative theatre of such dramatic potential they can distract from the Senates bill about banning Congress owning stocks Edit: I don’t mean just the stock bill. They need to keep Overton window where it is.
  • nonethewiser 3y ago
    Im not ruling out these UFO hearings are a conspiracy. Some sort of intelligence misdirection. But I recognize this is pure speculation. But cover for not banning congress from stock trading? Really? What is your basis?
    • uhmyeh 3y ago
      Colleagues in PR who have contrived one scenario after another in the media to make events go viral at the expense of others Are you seeing aliens all over? Sure is convenient they can travel time and space and just happen to crash on Earth … just like in TV shows! There are models to refer to; how much attention we process on average. Gaming that with noise is not hard for mega billion dollar corps and politicians comfortable with never working
    • mrguyorama 3y ago
      The tactic isn't about any one thing but rather just keeping a distractable and gullible voting bloc from paying attention to any one thing and forming a coherent ideology or reconsidering their faith in a politician for obvious nefarious things. The republicans are MUCH more effective at doing this than democrats, but they have no qualms about massaging how news gets disseminated in order to hush up bad things and emphasize stupid things.
      • likeabbas 3y ago
        But there are democrats joining republicans in investigating this. Senator Gillibrand and Chick Schumer have introduced legislation specifically targeting this.
• AndrewKemendo 3y ago
  >putting their reputation and career (and maybe safety) on the line They aren't because there is literally no new data, none. This isn't like Manning etc... where there was a materiel leak of classified data. So what would they be charged/fired for? Nothing. It's so much lazier, the claim is that being prevented access is somehow a proof of a coverup. All of the claims of harm were long before any of the publicity here. All of the "whistleblowers" in these cases were not on any kind of career trajectory that this would have put in danger or even still serving in those roles. They were all regular joes with uneventful military careers. They didn't bring new data to light like other whistleblowers - it's all rumors and speculation in this case, and literally a handful of shitty FLIR videos in others. I'm baffled at the lack of epistemic consistency across truth claims. Nobody would accept this level of speculation for anything actually related to reality yet here we are wasting time on this. I've hurt myself today by being involved here at all. Totally irrational.
  • shepardrtc 3y ago
    > > putting their reputation and career (and maybe safety) on the line > They aren't... > Totally irrational. Ok you just proved why they're putting their reputation and career on the line... people calling it irrational.
    • AndrewKemendo 3y ago
      Sorry, to be clear my point is that 1. They have no reputations to put on the line 2. They didn't do anything risky This isn't like we're talking about the AF Chief of Staff or some major leader in a field. So there's nothing to put on the line, they were nobodies before this and once it dies off they will be nobodies again. Said differently, this whole debacle will make them MORE famous and employable than they were previously. So the overall impact on their life is that they get more fame and attention for effectively no risk. People seeking fame and attention don't generally care what kind.
      • likeabbas 3y ago
        1. Grusch gave up his career in the intelligence community to whistleblow on this. He had everything to lose. 2. Grusch has testified under oath to the ICIG, both intelligence committees, and now to the house oversight committee. If he’s locking, they could lock him away indefinitely. Your entire argument is moot and you are looking for any excuse to discredit what’s being said. If you think he’s lying, ask your congressmen to investigate his claims and jail him if he’s lying.
• PKop 3y ago
  That's like saying lying about the Iraq war or any other policy of national security or deep state priorities "puts their reputation and career on the line". It is trivial to see that pushing a potentially desired position of the state/intel agencies could very well raise one's reputation and career prospects with these institutions. The primary critique of this whole issue is that it is lies. So, why would lying in the interest of the state be bad for one's status within those circles? Framed in this manner these people are risking absolutely nothing.
• mrguyorama 3y ago
  You're acting as if normal people in the military aren't normal, flawed human beings. Christ we literally had a member of the military inexplicably run into North Korea after a few bits of discipline for misbehavior.
• NoPicklez 3y ago
  I cast doubt because these people never actually show any legitimate evidence, despite their supposed career appointments. If you're going to put your career and reputation on the line, actually show or leak something that makes people believe you. Otherwise, themselves and their titles only seek to perpetuate an average news story or cover up for something else the government is doing.
  • appplication 3y ago
    Agree. I used to work with a lot of people who were not entirely there when I was in the military. When I was a Lt, I used to know (dated…) someone who told me she saw ghosts everywhere. As in, she would literally stop what she was doing and tell me a ghost was standing behind me, with complete seriousness. She’s now a Lt Col in the Space Force. I find it entirely believable that you could assemble a fairly large contingent of them to stake their credibility in just about anything.
• ilaksh 3y ago
  They are not putting their career on the line. They are doing their jobs.
• ecf 3y ago
  > on the line That used to be the case, but not in our modern world where “all publicity is good publicity”. IMO, this is a stunt from otherwise no-name government officials looking to get some media time.
• codezero 3y ago
  Consider that they may be being asked to do so as part of their job. Frequently in the past UFO hysteria was encouraged by the government to cover up their own advanced technology testing, or that of an adversary they are trying to catch up to. This could also be a limited hangout, wherein the material that would be released to the public could be an unknown to the public alloy but not enough to reveal the technology that's being worked on in secret by the government: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_hangout