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Bologna aside, isn’t there a legit issue re the difficulty in extinguishing an EV battery pack? I can see how “just give it a few days to burn itself out isn’t
by tiahura 3y ago
Bologna aside, isn’t there a legit issue re the difficulty in extinguishing an EV battery pack?
I can see how “just give it a few days to burn itself out isn’t a viable strategy on a boat.
- V__ 3y agoSince it's a ferry, a solution could be to just push if overboard. How often do fires on ferry happen?
- cjfd 3y agoHave you ever actually seen a bunch of cars tightly parked on a ferry? If not, google 'cars on a ferry' and click some images. Now, imagine a car somewhere in the middle of the bunch catching fire. Are you going to volunteer 'pushing it overboard'?
- ugjka 3y agoyou can't push them when they are deep in a pack of cars
- yreg 3y agoYou would have to push the entire column of cars before it overboard.
- bzzzt 3y agoSo make sure the electric cars are loaded last.
- vasco 3y agoProbably still cheaper even paying for the recovery effort if they are not dumped too deep to replace those cars than to replace the ship, in terms of total cost if the ship is totalled. How you push a column of cars around a raging fire is another problem. I don't know what I'd do.
- masklinn 3y agoThese are not open-deck ferries, the cars are in closed decks.
- bzzzt 3y agoSo it's easy to cut off the oxygen supply to the fire?
- bell-cot 3y agoSure - so long as you've spent the necessary $millions in advance, to build that feature into the ship. Plus crew training, safety certifications, insurance, etc. Imagine if a couple idiot kids or passed-out drunks were in the compartment which you de-oxygenated.
- bzzzt 3y agoLast time I took a big car ferry the car decks were off limits for passengers. On a smaller ferry it's more of a problem but the risks are also lower.
- masklinn 3y agoLast time I took a ferry with car capabilities (between Hokkaido and Honshu) the car deck was very much accessible to passengers.
- GuB-42 3y agoLi-ion batteries supply their own oxygen when they burn, you can't smother the fire.
- Symbiote 3y agoThere are deck walls strong enough to prevent a vehicle falling out of the ship, but usually open at either end to ensure good ventilation. There are hundreds of these ferries operating in Europe (and other places with large islands or short seas/lakes), from tiny ones that carry 2-4 cars, to large ones with multiple decks. https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/car-ferry.html?sortBy=relevant https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo/car-ferry.html?sortBy=rele... Tiny (UK): https://www.alamy.com/the-dartmouth-to-kingswear-car-ferry-leaves-from-bayards-cove-dartmouth-image150265426.html https://www.alamy.com/the-dartmouth-to-kingswear-car-ferry-l... Small (Germany): https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-car-ferry-harbour-friedrichshafen-lake-of-constance-baden-wurttemberg-147274580.html https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-car-ferry-harbour-friedric... Medium (Brazil): https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-car-on-board-the-ferry-makes-the-crossing-between-the-city-and-the-101304128.html https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-car-on-board-the-ferry-mak... Large (UK/France): https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-vehicle-deck-of-a-cross-channel-car-ferry-on-the-dover-calais-73449924.html https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-vehicle-deck-of-a-cros... Note these are public passenger ferries. You arrive at the port, buy a ticket, drive on and (usually) get out of the car for the journey.
- Tarq0n 3y agoCars on a ferry are locked in by other cars, and in large ferries like this one a ceiling as well.
- mikestew 3y agoIgnoring the other impracticalities that sibling commenters have pointed out, are you going to be the one to reach inside and put the flaming car in neutral? 'cuz you ain't pushing shit if that thing's still in Park.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- KnobbleMcKnees 3y agoI think this post was made because of this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66310280 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66310280 From the article: >Last year a cargo ship carrying 4,000 luxury cars caught fire and sank off the Azores. Lithium-ion batteries in the cars caught fire and firefighters needed specialist equipment to put out the fire.
- samstave 3y agoThere is a cargo ship right now in the NL that apparently has ~3,000 cars on it - and its on fire. I wonder if it has many EVs on it. Ah 25 Evs on it... https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/one-dead-cargo-ship-fire-electric-car-suspected-source-dutch-coastguard-2023-07-26/ https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/one-dead-cargo-ship-fir...
- actionfromafar 3y agoA small contingent of about 25 EVs take responsibility for the operation, destroying thousands of their ICE foes.
- samstave 3y agoAnd the fact that the fire "started near the EVs" is a False Frag.
- reacharavindh 3y agoI was just at the fire station in Netherlands last week for a tour and asked the very question. Answer: Electric cars are different from ICE cars in that the fire must be put off differently. We are trained to handle an EV fire by using a “blanket” method wherein a boxy containment zone will be erected to completely enclose the burning EV limiting ability of that chemical reaction to break out in a larger way. We have the tools, and the necessary practice for it, and treat it no different than a regular petrol car.
- nradov 3y agoSure, but that doesn't work on a ship. Or in an enclosed parking garage on land.
- martin_a 3y agoHm, it's not that difficult in the end, at least on land. First part is checking whether the battery pack is affected after all. Not all EV car fires lead to problems with the battery pack and sometimes you can just extinguish the fire like any other. We check the battery by inspecting it with thermal cameras (remove any protection on the bottom of the car first - not easy). If the temperature of the pack rises after the initial fire has been put out, the battery pack seems to have a problem. In that case, permanent cooling is the way to go. You will start doing this by sprinkling the battery with a hose to keep temperatures stable. At some point, you'll want to release the personell and need a more permanent solution. That's where troughs come in to play. You will fill that up with water until you can completely submerge the battery pack in water. Either place the car in first or lift it in afterwards, that doesn't matter, it's just a handling thing. The car stays in there for several days until the chain reaction in the battery has stopped. I can see how this might be somewhat more complicated on a ship in the middle of nowhere, but you wouldn't want to have a burnt-out non-EV car standing on your ship for an extended period of time, too. So you'll have to reach shore quickly anyway and get more help.
- madsbuch 3y agoSeems like a crane and dropping the car into the ocean is the solution then! /s
- martin_a 3y agoIf all else fails, I'd consider that option. But the problem seems to be more of how to get a burning car out of the pile of cars in your ferry. Doesn't matter if EV or not, you want to have it out of there at some point and that seems to be tricky.
- mrguyorama 3y agoHow well can you manage the temperature of a "burning" lithium car battery with unlimited water supplies? Can you easily keep it cool enough to not damage the floor or deck of the boat it is on? If you can, it seems like the long term solution would be two seawater pumps, hoses, and a barrier so you can erect an impromptu kiddy pool around the burning vehicle, and just flow constant seawater around it until you get to port or it stops being a problem.