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This headline is definitely not correct - the actual heajne should be "some reports of free tier users being locked out of their netlify support". I've worked

This headline is definitely not correct - the actual heajne should be "some reports of free tier users being locked out of their netlify support". I've worked with small providers who don't provide an SLA on support for a $9 tier, and I've worked with large providers with a 2 hour SLA - I can't say that the 2 hour SLA is alway better. That said, if you rely on something it's incredibly naive to use a free tier and then feel indignant on a forum when you can't immediately get a response.

decremental 3y ago
Often it's the case that the less a customer is paying, the more indignant they feel they can be with support. I don't know why this is. You get more reasonable customers with higher pricing. I imagine a free tier attracts all sorts of riff raff.
- mkl 3y ago
  I think it's that if you're paying someone you usually respect them. There's a trust relationship established.
  - darkwater 3y ago
    Also, the "I decided to spend my money on this, it ought to be good, I cannot be wrong" effect.
- drawkbox 3y ago
  Same happens with ratings. You can have the same app, one paid and one free, the free one will be rated lower because of perception. If a person pays for a thing they are more invested in making it something worthwhile and thus less attacks. If something is free and any issue, it suddenly is horrible because they never associated value with it from the beginning. It is a psychological thing and plays into many parts of the market.
  - matkoniecz 3y ago
    > the free one will be rated lower because of perception. Not only that. I would buy paid app only if convinced that it is worth it. I am willing to try free app - and in case that it is garbage, rate it accordingly. Also, free versions often have strong limitation or massive amounts of ads: so they are worse than paid one.
  - Retric 3y ago
    You are missing the major differences between the users and apps being compared. There’s self selection, if you pay for something then it you’re more selective in what you get. “Free” apps are also worse due to inserting advertising.
- intothemild 3y ago
  My guess as to why, is that the kinds of people who are paying the higher tiers are companies. The person(s) interacting with support are on the payroll of the company experiencing problems. So it's all a very professional conversation.
  - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
    right, I might consider that a large number of the services my employer has paid for are crap, but when I talk to representatives of those services I can't say why in hell did you decide to do this idiotic crap because their HR would complain to my employer's HR and thus I am forced to be polite. Definitely a win for professional etiquette. I believe, based on other comments I have seen on HN, that my view is a pretty widespread one.
  - nordsieck 3y ago
    > My guess as to why, is that the kinds of people who are paying the higher tiers are companies. That may be a partial explanation, but I've also heard this frequently from people who sell to only retail customers. If you're the low cost plumber, pressure washer, or lawn care, you're going to have a headache compared to the people who operate up market.
    - xen2xen1 3y ago
      Who's gonna complain and argue more over $5, a poor person or a rich person? If you concentrate on the "value" market people will concentrate on getting value out of you. That totally includes rich but cheap people, which are very much a thing.
  - dahart 3y ago
    Seems like a reasonable guess if you assume most or all of the paying customers are companies, but that might be unrealistic to assume, and individual consumer behavior has been studied a lot; it’s widely known in retail business that people often don’t value free things. The relationship between price and product engagement is complicated. Having run a site myself that offered a free tier and a paid tier, I experienced exactly the same thing: free customers were noticeably more demanding and less patient than the paying customers. Initially I sold paid plans almost entirely to individuals, not companies, and still saw this behavior. So my guess is that people who invest financially in their tools are willing to work to improve them, hence interested in having a polite and productive relationship with the company that makes their tools. Free users want the product to work right now, and because they’re not paying, they don’t expect it to change. There might be a bit of free users acting more aggressively out of fear that they won’t be listened to because they’re on the free tier, and hoping that public shaming, instead of money, will get the company to act. At least that what it feels like on the support end of this.
- criley2 3y ago
  IMO it comes down to the cost of burning the bridge. The free to $10/mo user likely won't even notice if they get banned from the service. But the company spending $5000/mo on the service will likely have the worst week of their lives if they get banned...
- evantbyrne 3y ago
  I've noticed this is also true in regards to how employers treat employees. Low wage workers are treated like shit, and higher wage workers tend to enjoy more flexibility and benefits. How much someone is willing to pay you for your labor may in fact be a direct measurement of how much they value you as a person.
  - pc86 3y ago
    I think you might have this flipped (not that it's any better). If someone pays you more, they assume you're more valuable and to some extent assume you're a better person.
    - evantbyrne 3y ago
      I think we're in agreement on that point. It may go even further though, and I suspect the act of paying someone poor wages in of itself leads to perceiving them as property.
dustincoates 3y ago
We had an "indie hacker" using our product who would write in a really abusive manner over and over. I could never figure out why he didn't just go with another company. Incidentally, I remembered his name recently and looked him up. I found an interview where he sold his company for "8 figures" and talked about the joy of "nurturing a team." Not sure the lesson there, but I found it funny.
- sbarre 3y ago
  Back in the 90s I managed a dial-up ISP and I had a policy that if a customer calling support was overly rude to my agents, we would just tell them "I guess we're not the company for you, let's start the cancellation process". We were the best deal in town (lowest price and user:line ratio for an unlimited service), so they would usually change their tune, but we had a 2-strike policy, so call and be rude again, and you're out for good. We didn't end up having to do this that many times, but when we did, it was worth it. Often your most difficult and abusive customers end up being your least profitable.
  - blantonl 3y ago
    I have zero tolerance at my organization for customers that are rude and nasty. If you send us a support request that is filled with profanities and demands out of the gate, I'll gladly refund your money and terminate your account immediately. There's a saying I like to use: I'll bend over backwards to help you, but I won't bend over forwards.
    - arp242 3y ago
      I find that if you reply factually and ignore the abuse that people will often come back with "sorry for my rudeness earlier, I had a bad day" or some variant thereof, completely unprompted. Even without apology I think the rare rudeness is fine, even though I really dislike it. No one is perfect and we got to accept that. The real problem is usually the small group of customers who are consistently abusive and excessively demanding and will fly off the handle every other week over some small thing.
cowpig 3y ago
> Since yesterday I am getting this message as I try to login into my netlify account and due to this I am unable to access my account and also my some of important projects which I have deployed on netlify, failed to work properly which contains my portfolio and some of major projects which I had mentioned them in my resume. Where are you getting the idea that they are locked out of support and not their main account, like they are saying in the linked thread?
SkeuomorphicBee 3y ago
I hate the prevailing sentiment around here that if you are not paying then you deserve all harm to comes to you. If I get free food sample from a brand I fully expect that it should comply with the same sanitary/health standards as a paid product, food makers can't just shrug a harmful contamination/spoiling in free samples and then just go "they are not paying so not my problem". We must hold free tech services to the same high standards. Not to this specific case, it is not as you imply a case of a single person having a problem and not having timely support, it is a widespread problem or policy somewhere (purposeful or accidental) that collectively harmed many free-tier users.
- subw00f 3y ago
  Not a fair comparison, one is a health risk to human beings, the other is a business nuisance.
  - toolz 3y ago
    not necessarily true...imagine you're a kid with tech skills and you've made the local news for making a free to use website that tracks public transport buses that over the course of a month or two disadvantaged people come to rely on...then that service goes away suddenly while some disadvantaged person is out doing something in extreme weather...now that disadvantaged person has to go wait for the bus in extreme weather for a substantially longer period of time which could easily make them sick which could easily be a life altering experience for them.
- horsawlarway 3y ago
  I mean... I also expect the people handing out the free samples to be able to say "no more" to me. I'm not paying them, and they can stop being "nice" at any point without doing anything wrong. I don't see how this is any different? He wasn't harmed in the sense that netlify drove to his house and stabbed him. He lost access to a free food platter.
  - john-radio 3y ago
    Say what you will about Netlify, they have never driven to my house and stabbed me.
MattRix 3y ago
It’s ironic that you say the headline is incorrect, when your replacement headline is the incorrect one. The users are complaining because they’ve been locked out of their netlify account, not their “netlify support” like you stated. These people aren’t being indignant, just frustrated. You can’t criticize them for expecting help from a support forum either, since apparently that’s the only place where Netlify expects free users to get support.
kitd 3y ago
This headline is definitely not correct - the actual heajne should be "some reports of free tier users being locked out of their netlify support". The headline is exactly correct. There is no editorialising at all. Additionally, they're not locked out of support, but out of the actual accounts.
croes 3y ago
But their account has been suspended and they don't know why.

decremental 3y ago

Often it's the case that the less a customer is paying, the more indignant they feel they can be with support. I don't know why this is. You get more reasonable customers with higher pricing. I imagine a free tier attracts all sorts of riff raff.

mkl 3y ago
I think it's that if you're paying someone you usually respect them. There's a trust relationship established.
- darkwater 3y ago
  Also, the "I decided to spend my money on this, it ought to be good, I cannot be wrong" effect.
drawkbox 3y ago
Same happens with ratings. You can have the same app, one paid and one free, the free one will be rated lower because of perception. If a person pays for a thing they are more invested in making it something worthwhile and thus less attacks. If something is free and any issue, it suddenly is horrible because they never associated value with it from the beginning. It is a psychological thing and plays into many parts of the market.
- matkoniecz 3y ago
  > the free one will be rated lower because of perception. Not only that. I would buy paid app only if convinced that it is worth it. I am willing to try free app - and in case that it is garbage, rate it accordingly. Also, free versions often have strong limitation or massive amounts of ads: so they are worse than paid one.
- Retric 3y ago
  You are missing the major differences between the users and apps being compared. There’s self selection, if you pay for something then it you’re more selective in what you get. “Free” apps are also worse due to inserting advertising.
intothemild 3y ago
My guess as to why, is that the kinds of people who are paying the higher tiers are companies. The person(s) interacting with support are on the payroll of the company experiencing problems. So it's all a very professional conversation.
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago
  right, I might consider that a large number of the services my employer has paid for are crap, but when I talk to representatives of those services I can't say why in hell did you decide to do this idiotic crap because their HR would complain to my employer's HR and thus I am forced to be polite. Definitely a win for professional etiquette. I believe, based on other comments I have seen on HN, that my view is a pretty widespread one.
- nordsieck 3y ago
  > My guess as to why, is that the kinds of people who are paying the higher tiers are companies. That may be a partial explanation, but I've also heard this frequently from people who sell to only retail customers. If you're the low cost plumber, pressure washer, or lawn care, you're going to have a headache compared to the people who operate up market.
  - xen2xen1 3y ago
    Who's gonna complain and argue more over $5, a poor person or a rich person? If you concentrate on the "value" market people will concentrate on getting value out of you. That totally includes rich but cheap people, which are very much a thing.
- dahart 3y ago
  Seems like a reasonable guess if you assume most or all of the paying customers are companies, but that might be unrealistic to assume, and individual consumer behavior has been studied a lot; it’s widely known in retail business that people often don’t value free things. The relationship between price and product engagement is complicated. Having run a site myself that offered a free tier and a paid tier, I experienced exactly the same thing: free customers were noticeably more demanding and less patient than the paying customers. Initially I sold paid plans almost entirely to individuals, not companies, and still saw this behavior. So my guess is that people who invest financially in their tools are willing to work to improve them, hence interested in having a polite and productive relationship with the company that makes their tools. Free users want the product to work right now, and because they’re not paying, they don’t expect it to change. There might be a bit of free users acting more aggressively out of fear that they won’t be listened to because they’re on the free tier, and hoping that public shaming, instead of money, will get the company to act. At least that what it feels like on the support end of this.
criley2 3y ago
IMO it comes down to the cost of burning the bridge. The free to $10/mo user likely won't even notice if they get banned from the service. But the company spending $5000/mo on the service will likely have the worst week of their lives if they get banned...
evantbyrne 3y ago
I've noticed this is also true in regards to how employers treat employees. Low wage workers are treated like shit, and higher wage workers tend to enjoy more flexibility and benefits. How much someone is willing to pay you for your labor may in fact be a direct measurement of how much they value you as a person.
- pc86 3y ago
  I think you might have this flipped (not that it's any better). If someone pays you more, they assume you're more valuable and to some extent assume you're a better person.
  - evantbyrne 3y ago
    I think we're in agreement on that point. It may go even further though, and I suspect the act of paying someone poor wages in of itself leads to perceiving them as property.

dustincoates 3y ago

We had an "indie hacker" using our product who would write in a really abusive manner over and over. I could never figure out why he didn't just go with another company. Incidentally, I remembered his name recently and looked him up. I found an interview where he sold his company for "8 figures" and talked about the joy of "nurturing a team." Not sure the lesson there, but I found it funny.

sbarre 3y ago
Back in the 90s I managed a dial-up ISP and I had a policy that if a customer calling support was overly rude to my agents, we would just tell them "I guess we're not the company for you, let's start the cancellation process". We were the best deal in town (lowest price and user:line ratio for an unlimited service), so they would usually change their tune, but we had a 2-strike policy, so call and be rude again, and you're out for good. We didn't end up having to do this that many times, but when we did, it was worth it. Often your most difficult and abusive customers end up being your least profitable.
- blantonl 3y ago
  I have zero tolerance at my organization for customers that are rude and nasty. If you send us a support request that is filled with profanities and demands out of the gate, I'll gladly refund your money and terminate your account immediately. There's a saying I like to use: I'll bend over backwards to help you, but I won't bend over forwards.
  - arp242 3y ago
    I find that if you reply factually and ignore the abuse that people will often come back with "sorry for my rudeness earlier, I had a bad day" or some variant thereof, completely unprompted. Even without apology I think the rare rudeness is fine, even though I really dislike it. No one is perfect and we got to accept that. The real problem is usually the small group of customers who are consistently abusive and excessively demanding and will fly off the handle every other week over some small thing.

cowpig 3y ago

> Since yesterday I am getting this message as I try to login into my netlify account and due to this I am unable to access my account and also my some of important projects which I have deployed on netlify, failed to work properly which contains my portfolio and some of major projects which I had mentioned them in my resume. Where are you getting the idea that they are locked out of support and not their main account, like they are saying in the linked thread?

SkeuomorphicBee 3y ago

I hate the prevailing sentiment around here that if you are not paying then you deserve all harm to comes to you. If I get free food sample from a brand I fully expect that it should comply with the same sanitary/health standards as a paid product, food makers can't just shrug a harmful contamination/spoiling in free samples and then just go "they are not paying so not my problem". We must hold free tech services to the same high standards. Not to this specific case, it is not as you imply a case of a single person having a problem and not having timely support, it is a widespread problem or policy somewhere (purposeful or accidental) that collectively harmed many free-tier users.

subw00f 3y ago
Not a fair comparison, one is a health risk to human beings, the other is a business nuisance.
- toolz 3y ago
  not necessarily true...imagine you're a kid with tech skills and you've made the local news for making a free to use website that tracks public transport buses that over the course of a month or two disadvantaged people come to rely on...then that service goes away suddenly while some disadvantaged person is out doing something in extreme weather...now that disadvantaged person has to go wait for the bus in extreme weather for a substantially longer period of time which could easily make them sick which could easily be a life altering experience for them.
horsawlarway 3y ago
I mean... I also expect the people handing out the free samples to be able to say "no more" to me. I'm not paying them, and they can stop being "nice" at any point without doing anything wrong. I don't see how this is any different? He wasn't harmed in the sense that netlify drove to his house and stabbed him. He lost access to a free food platter.
- john-radio 3y ago
  Say what you will about Netlify, they have never driven to my house and stabbed me.

MattRix 3y ago

It’s ironic that you say the headline is incorrect, when your replacement headline is the incorrect one. The users are complaining because they’ve been locked out of their netlify account, not their “netlify support” like you stated. These people aren’t being indignant, just frustrated. You can’t criticize them for expecting help from a support forum either, since apparently that’s the only place where Netlify expects free users to get support.

kitd 3y ago

This headline is definitely not correct - the actual heajne should be "some reports of free tier users being locked out of their netlify support". The headline is exactly correct. There is no editorialising at all. Additionally, they're not locked out of support, but out of the actual accounts.

croes 3y ago

But their account has been suspended and they don't know why.