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This is well written and I agree that family is a very imperfect analogy for a working relationship. At the same time, some work situations are more or less fam

This is well written and I agree that family is a very imperfect analogy for a working relationship. At the same time, some work situations are more or less family-like and it still pays to look for the "more." I've been lucky that 4 companies I've worked at in my life so far have been very "employee forward" - creating scenarios of employee growth and engagement (vs putting employees in the seat of powerless cogs). All 4 companies have had a layoff of some sort for various reasons (business line shutdown, covid business hit, interest rate hit, grew too fast - respectively) and I have been affected by one of the layoffs (the other one, I left right before employees were bought out) but I am still happy to have worked there vs anywhere else because of these factors. "Family" doesn't mean employing you past the point it makes sense, it's more about how you're related to when you're here. Are you encouraged to grow, to make connections, are you paid well, does the company try to give you good benefits, etc. You want a place that does all of that. You don't have to call it "family" - but it's a totally different vibe from a sweatshop.

sillysaurusx 3y ago
So creepy. It’s an employment contract, nothing more.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  Sorry but you are really missing the point in my experience. I'll give you a non-tech example. We had a great nanny for our son. She went above and beyond, treating him like a grandson. We went above and beyond for her (max flexibility, paying her days when she couldn't work, lots of bonuses and gifts, etc.) Both of us exceeded the "employment contract" - gave more than we had to and we both came out ahead. That only worked because we were both willing to go beyond. What's the point? We treated each other "like family" even though it was a work situation. When our son didn't need a nanny anymore, it didn't make sense for us to work together (so in a way, she was laid off although in reality we found her another gig) but that didn't take away from the quality of our relationship while it lasted. This is directly analogous to employment dynamics I've had at work for 20 years now. You may find that "creepy" but I also suspect you are oblivious to what the upside can be like.
  - AlexandrB 3y ago
    The thing that makes "family" different from another organization is what happens at the extremes, not day to day. When you're down on your luck, failed completely, and lost everything your family will still be there to help you and take care of you. Your company will not. Trying to create confusion around this concept is deceptive. A family is not just a bunch of people who are nice to each other when times are good.
  - Ylpertnodi 3y ago
    >We had a great nanny for our son. That's as close to actual 'family' as i feel im not, in the multinational i work for.
  - monknomo 3y ago
    I think that is treating each other "like friends" rather than "like family". Friendships begin and end, and friends will help each other, even if it means the effective end of a friendship (eg helping load a van for a cross country move). Were it like family, you'd still invite each other to birthdays and the like.
bluefishinit 3y ago
> "Family" doesn't mean employing you past the point it makes sense Actually family does mean that, literally. It makes absolutely no sense to use this term in a business context.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  Apologies if I didn't make this super clear. I agree that the "family" metaphor breaks down around termination of employment (whether initiated by employee or employer) What I was trying to say in the line you quoted, that IN THE WORK CONTEXT nobody uses family to imply permanent employment - it's strictly about how you are with each other while there. Which is still a big deal.
  - bluefishinit 3y ago
    No one should use "family" at work, it's as the other commenter put, creepy. You can treat people with respect and trust without taking on a para-familial relationship with them, that's super inappropriate and exploitative (although sadly all too common).
  - e_i_pi_2 3y ago
    I'd agree that "family" implies you're going to put the relationship itself over most rational reasons, and businesses can't do that. If you want to say they're family then the business should also plan for a pension that all employees get or something similar - otherwise it's just a tactic to manipulate people Of course you treat family members well when they "deliver" for you, the real part is when they can't deliver and you still support them.
  - constantcrying 3y ago
    >I agree that the "family" metaphor breaks down around termination It breaks down the second you actually compare your family to your company. I think that basically every single person would do many, many things for members of his family that he wouldn't do for the members of his company.
- wink 3y ago
chinchilla2020 3y ago
"family" is going to mean something different to everyone. It could be positive or negative. The hackernews galaxy brains trying to define a company based on one word in a mission statement is every bit as foolish as the recruiter who describes their culture as 'family'.
zanellato19 3y ago
There isn't anything on your comment about "family-like". This is just "is this company better for the employees or not"? All of those points have nothing to do with family.

sillysaurusx 3y ago

So creepy. It’s an employment contract, nothing more.

xyzelement 3y ago
Sorry but you are really missing the point in my experience. I'll give you a non-tech example. We had a great nanny for our son. She went above and beyond, treating him like a grandson. We went above and beyond for her (max flexibility, paying her days when she couldn't work, lots of bonuses and gifts, etc.) Both of us exceeded the "employment contract" - gave more than we had to and we both came out ahead. That only worked because we were both willing to go beyond. What's the point? We treated each other "like family" even though it was a work situation. When our son didn't need a nanny anymore, it didn't make sense for us to work together (so in a way, she was laid off although in reality we found her another gig) but that didn't take away from the quality of our relationship while it lasted. This is directly analogous to employment dynamics I've had at work for 20 years now. You may find that "creepy" but I also suspect you are oblivious to what the upside can be like.
- AlexandrB 3y ago
  The thing that makes "family" different from another organization is what happens at the extremes, not day to day. When you're down on your luck, failed completely, and lost everything your family will still be there to help you and take care of you. Your company will not. Trying to create confusion around this concept is deceptive. A family is not just a bunch of people who are nice to each other when times are good.
- Ylpertnodi 3y ago
  >We had a great nanny for our son. That's as close to actual 'family' as i feel im not, in the multinational i work for.
- monknomo 3y ago
  I think that is treating each other "like friends" rather than "like family". Friendships begin and end, and friends will help each other, even if it means the effective end of a friendship (eg helping load a van for a cross country move). Were it like family, you'd still invite each other to birthdays and the like.

bluefishinit 3y ago

> "Family" doesn't mean employing you past the point it makes sense Actually family does mean that, literally. It makes absolutely no sense to use this term in a business context.

xyzelement 3y ago
Apologies if I didn't make this super clear. I agree that the "family" metaphor breaks down around termination of employment (whether initiated by employee or employer) What I was trying to say in the line you quoted, that IN THE WORK CONTEXT nobody uses family to imply permanent employment - it's strictly about how you are with each other while there. Which is still a big deal.
- bluefishinit 3y ago
  No one should use "family" at work, it's as the other commenter put, creepy. You can treat people with respect and trust without taking on a para-familial relationship with them, that's super inappropriate and exploitative (although sadly all too common).
- e_i_pi_2 3y ago
  I'd agree that "family" implies you're going to put the relationship itself over most rational reasons, and businesses can't do that. If you want to say they're family then the business should also plan for a pension that all employees get or something similar - otherwise it's just a tactic to manipulate people Of course you treat family members well when they "deliver" for you, the real part is when they can't deliver and you still support them.
- constantcrying 3y ago
  >I agree that the "family" metaphor breaks down around termination It breaks down the second you actually compare your family to your company. I think that basically every single person would do many, many things for members of his family that he wouldn't do for the members of his company.
wink 3y ago

chinchilla2020 3y ago

"family" is going to mean something different to everyone. It could be positive or negative. The hackernews galaxy brains trying to define a company based on one word in a mission statement is every bit as foolish as the recruiter who describes their culture as 'family'.

zanellato19 3y ago

There isn't anything on your comment about "family-like". This is just "is this company better for the employees or not"? All of those points have nothing to do with family.