5 ms·

Internet anarchists getting excited about the prospect of forking the Internet feels a lot like when a lot of preppers got excited about the potential breakdown

by Jolter 3y ago

Internet anarchists getting excited about the prospect of forking the Internet feels a lot like when a lot of preppers got excited about the potential breakdown of society when Covid hit. “Finally I can put all my skills to the test, which people have been teasing me about for so long.” In both cases, this attitude has the problem that they ignore the vast majority of people who would suffer under the new order. Very few people would find their way out of the corporate walled gardens and into the free information superhighway.

ryandrake 3y ago
> Internet anarchists getting excited about the prospect of forking the Internet feels a lot like when a lot of preppies got excited about the potential breakdown of society when Covid hit. > “Finally I can put all my skills to the test, which people have been teasing me about for so long.” Veering offtopic a little, but your comment reminded me, hilariously, that after Stay-At-Home was mandated, my older, "prepper" friends and acquaintances were generally the first to crack and start complaining on Facebook about unfair it was that they were expected to just stay home in their bunkers and not go to bars and shop for their khakis. So much for the rugged self-reliance they loved to crow about! I can imagine the Internet Anarchists behaving the same way. They'll be, in reality, the first to sign up for the AmazoGoogoMetaAppleInternet so they can keep posting to Social Media and doing their online shopping.
- bamfly 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - WeylandYutani 3y ago
    The US militia that everyone talks about in relation to the 2nd amendment weren't meant to protect the US from Canada. It was in response to a feared slave uprising from within.
    - hgsgm 3y ago
      Source? There were other powers on North America.
      - mrguyorama 3y ago
        Like the Native Americans who were actively raiding settlements and engaging in pretty brutal (by both parties) conflict with the settlers who often responded by generating local militias from normal folk who were then tasked with attacking the native americans. But no, instead we should pretend it had something to do with shooting a president you don't like. Because that's what "freedom from tyranny" is.
    - lamontcg 3y ago
      It is 'funny' how much the supposedly anti-government freedum fighters in the US are 100% behind 'back the blue' and the government agency that has the monopoly on the 'legal' use of physical force/violence in society.
    - inconceivable 3y ago
      really? i heard it was to protect from invaders from outer space.
    - jonfw 3y ago
      The constitution was a set of principles meant to extend beyond the times they were written in. As flawed as the founding fathers were, they were probably smart enough to understand that the nature of the threats the country would face were likely to evolve over time.
    - b59831 3y ago
      This is based on nothing but 'america bad'. Do you think this makes you look smart?
- b59831 3y ago
  Veering off topic to culture war nonsense. Nice! The important thing is you feel smug.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    Culture war? All I'm saying is that Self-Professed Group-X often turns out to be the least-X of them all.
    - ToValueFunfetti 3y ago
      I'm absolutely willing to believe that it wasn't intentional, but you essentially said that being anti-lockdown means that you're weak, right? Regardless of whether that's a true statement, it definitely reads like a culture war sneer.
bamfly 3y ago
I read "preppies" as something very different from what you intended, at first, and was really confused, but also got some really funny mental images out of it. Popped-collar-lacoste-polo madras-shorts-wearing dudes whose only survival skills are knot-tying, trying to get by in the apocalypse. LOL.
- Jolter 3y ago
  Oops, edited. Not sure if a typo or an autocorrect error. Thanks!
toyg 3y ago
It's a bit sad that a "daytime hacker, night time musician" from Sweden sees "internet anarchists" as something of a slur. I guess punk really is dead. Besides, it's not about being excited as much as trying to find silver linings in a rapidly deteriorating environment.
- Jolter 3y ago
  Maybe your last sentence was more about some form of nostalgia for a long-lost decentralized Internet than excitedness? I can certainly sympathize, but I think the best path forward for any anarchist would be to fight the attestation initiatives fiercely, rather than to resign and say “maybe we could have a good web again if we start over fresh”. That aside, I’m not sure what you are saying with that comment about myself. I don’t think it serves the discussion.
  - toyg 3y ago
    I didn't define myself as an anarchist, you labelled me as such and drew some unflattering connotations to the term. Generally speaking, I don't deal in false dichotomies anyway. I was just saying that this could be the long-predicted inflection point.
    - verdverm 3y ago
      Nostradamus has a lot of predictions we are still waiting on, that is to say, your perceived inflection point may never come. More likely is a bifurcation of the internet between West and BRICS, which is already partially in place
      - gverrilla 3y ago
        > More likely is a bifurcation of the internet between West and BRICS, which is already partially in place wym?
        verdverm 3y ago
vdqtp3 3y ago
> Very few people would find their way out of the corporate walled gardens and into the free information superhighway. As opposed to the masses of people exploring sites other than Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and Reddit? We're already there.
- gtirloni 3y ago
  "We" are a minority. Most people nowadays live inside these walled gardens, doomscrolling.
  - toyg 3y ago
    Some see that as a problem, but it really isn't. "We" just need to rediscover true-punk attitudes.
- Jolter 3y ago
  Sure, and I think that supports my argument. The law of least resistance rules on the mainstream Internet. Consumers already will pay for devices that surveil them and use their private data to sell them more crap they do not need. If we expect consumers to choose the open, anarchist, Internet over the corporate clean Internet, then we expect too much of them.
amelius 3y ago
There will be people who will build bridges between the two webs, so the folks caught in the corporate web don't miss out on anything. The other way around is not so simple, because of the IDs etc. Hence the anarchists lose.
- vorpalhex 3y ago
  Losing access to corpoweb may be a blessing, not a failure. As someone who intentionally has removed myself from social media, it's been a win. The same goes for a lot of online services. There is a cost side to this, it's not a free ride, but the scale problem reduces the cost. My crappy $200 hosting box scales to hundreds of users.
philwelch 3y ago
> Very few people would find their way out of the corporate walled gardens and into the free information superhighway. Their revealed preference is that they don’t want a free information superhighway.

by Jolter 3y ago

ryandrake 3y ago

> Internet anarchists getting excited about the prospect of forking the Internet feels a lot like when a lot of preppies got excited about the potential breakdown of society when Covid hit. > “Finally I can put all my skills to the test, which people have been teasing me about for so long.” Veering offtopic a little, but your comment reminded me, hilariously, that after Stay-At-Home was mandated, my older, "prepper" friends and acquaintances were generally the first to crack and start complaining on Facebook about unfair it was that they were expected to just stay home in their bunkers and not go to bars and shop for their khakis. So much for the rugged self-reliance they loved to crow about! I can imagine the Internet Anarchists behaving the same way. They'll be, in reality, the first to sign up for the AmazoGoogoMetaAppleInternet so they can keep posting to Social Media and doing their online shopping.

bamfly 3y ago
[flagged]
- WeylandYutani 3y ago
  The US militia that everyone talks about in relation to the 2nd amendment weren't meant to protect the US from Canada. It was in response to a feared slave uprising from within.
  - hgsgm 3y ago
    Source? There were other powers on North America.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      Like the Native Americans who were actively raiding settlements and engaging in pretty brutal (by both parties) conflict with the settlers who often responded by generating local militias from normal folk who were then tasked with attacking the native americans. But no, instead we should pretend it had something to do with shooting a president you don't like. Because that's what "freedom from tyranny" is.
  - lamontcg 3y ago
    It is 'funny' how much the supposedly anti-government freedum fighters in the US are 100% behind 'back the blue' and the government agency that has the monopoly on the 'legal' use of physical force/violence in society.
  - inconceivable 3y ago
    really? i heard it was to protect from invaders from outer space.
  - jonfw 3y ago
    The constitution was a set of principles meant to extend beyond the times they were written in. As flawed as the founding fathers were, they were probably smart enough to understand that the nature of the threats the country would face were likely to evolve over time.
  - b59831 3y ago
    This is based on nothing but 'america bad'. Do you think this makes you look smart?
b59831 3y ago
Veering off topic to culture war nonsense. Nice! The important thing is you feel smug.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  Culture war? All I'm saying is that Self-Professed Group-X often turns out to be the least-X of them all.
  - ToValueFunfetti 3y ago
    I'm absolutely willing to believe that it wasn't intentional, but you essentially said that being anti-lockdown means that you're weak, right? Regardless of whether that's a true statement, it definitely reads like a culture war sneer.

bamfly 3y ago

I read "preppies" as something very different from what you intended, at first, and was really confused, but also got some really funny mental images out of it. Popped-collar-lacoste-polo madras-shorts-wearing dudes whose only survival skills are knot-tying, trying to get by in the apocalypse. LOL.

Jolter 3y ago
Oops, edited. Not sure if a typo or an autocorrect error. Thanks!

toyg 3y ago

It's a bit sad that a "daytime hacker, night time musician" from Sweden sees "internet anarchists" as something of a slur. I guess punk really is dead. Besides, it's not about being excited as much as trying to find silver linings in a rapidly deteriorating environment.

Jolter 3y ago
Maybe your last sentence was more about some form of nostalgia for a long-lost decentralized Internet than excitedness? I can certainly sympathize, but I think the best path forward for any anarchist would be to fight the attestation initiatives fiercely, rather than to resign and say “maybe we could have a good web again if we start over fresh”. That aside, I’m not sure what you are saying with that comment about myself. I don’t think it serves the discussion.
- toyg 3y ago
  I didn't define myself as an anarchist, you labelled me as such and drew some unflattering connotations to the term. Generally speaking, I don't deal in false dichotomies anyway. I was just saying that this could be the long-predicted inflection point.
  - verdverm 3y ago
    Nostradamus has a lot of predictions we are still waiting on, that is to say, your perceived inflection point may never come. More likely is a bifurcation of the internet between West and BRICS, which is already partially in place
    - gverrilla 3y ago
      > More likely is a bifurcation of the internet between West and BRICS, which is already partially in place wym?
      - verdverm 3y ago

vdqtp3 3y ago

> Very few people would find their way out of the corporate walled gardens and into the free information superhighway. As opposed to the masses of people exploring sites other than Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, and Reddit? We're already there.

gtirloni 3y ago
"We" are a minority. Most people nowadays live inside these walled gardens, doomscrolling.
- toyg 3y ago
  Some see that as a problem, but it really isn't. "We" just need to rediscover true-punk attitudes.
Jolter 3y ago
Sure, and I think that supports my argument. The law of least resistance rules on the mainstream Internet. Consumers already will pay for devices that surveil them and use their private data to sell them more crap they do not need. If we expect consumers to choose the open, anarchist, Internet over the corporate clean Internet, then we expect too much of them.

amelius 3y ago

There will be people who will build bridges between the two webs, so the folks caught in the corporate web don't miss out on anything. The other way around is not so simple, because of the IDs etc. Hence the anarchists lose.

vorpalhex 3y ago
Losing access to corpoweb may be a blessing, not a failure. As someone who intentionally has removed myself from social media, it's been a win. The same goes for a lot of online services. There is a cost side to this, it's not a free ride, but the scale problem reduces the cost. My crappy $200 hosting box scales to hundreds of users.

philwelch 3y ago

> Very few people would find their way out of the corporate walled gardens and into the free information superhighway. Their revealed preference is that they don’t want a free information superhighway.