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Paris to bring back swimming in Seine after 100 years
- jaza 3y agoYou first!
- causality0 3y agoFor those in the know, was this hundred year ban on swimming in the Seine due to pollution reasonable? I find it hard to wrap my head around a liberal European country letting a river stay so contaminated it's dangerous to swim in, at least in this century.
- bombcar 3y agoBasically heavy rains would overflow the sewer system and dump raw sewage into the river.
- wnevets 3y ago> I find it hard to wrap my head around a liberal European country letting a river stay so contaminated it's dangerous to swim in, at least in this century. You may not want to look up if swimming in the Thames is safe.
- worik 3y ago>> liberal European country letting a river stay so contaminated > You may not want to look up if swimming in the Thames is safe. The Thames is in England They said "liberal European...". As much as (some of) the English might hate it they are European...
- adastra22 3y agoThe UK is geographically situated on the continent of Europe.
- pyuser583 3y agoEurope is not a continent. It is a peninsular sub-content of the Eurasian landmass. Like India.
- wnevets 3y ago> Europe, second smallest of the world’s continents. https://www.britannica.com/place/Europe https://www.britannica.com/place/Europe Continents are more about how humans want to group landmasses rather than a hard scientific definition.
- nsteel 3y agoBut it's not banned. You can officially swim at a bunch of places, including the disgusting inner London Docklands area, as well as the dock2dock event. I think the idea is that it's fine providing you don't swallow any of the water... Everyone I know who's done it (mostly from my tri club) has gotten ill afterwards.
- FredPret 3y agoIt's probably an infrastructure issue. Fixing old water treatment piping for a whole city that is also very old is going to be expensive!
- ggm 3y agoThere are limits to how much remediation you can do to river water quality. Not that people shouldn't try, but if e.g. upstream sites leach heavy metals, or biological contaminants deep in ground water, there's only so much you can do. Brisbane (where I live) the river is affectionately called 'the brown snake' mainly because of silt. Even though sand mining/dredging has ended, the river is silty still. Is that why swimming isn't recommended? No: its because upstream on oxley creek, major industrial and agricultural runoff issues during historic floods in the last 10-20 years have raised contamination, fecal coliform and other problems such that you risk serious antibiotic resistant bugs if you accidentally ingest too much, or get it in cuts (I know because I row, and a rowing colleague wound up on IV antibiotics with amputation being discussed from a deep cut) When it floods in brisbane, associated creeks continue to leach the effects of 100+ years of industrial waste and effluent into the water. Nearby cities have land which is capped 2m deep over what was septic tank discharge, it is said that shigella is still a significant risk if you dig into the soil. I don't know, I thought it died, but perhaps it persists? Well.. that and the bullsharks but we're talking about pollution. Yes, the Thames is coming back to life and significant fish numbers have risen in the last decade, we're miles off "the great stink" which caused Bazalgette to construct the sewers on the riverbank. Is it always entirely safe to "be in" -well no. Sources upstream occasionally dump sewage overflow along the length of the Thames. Its meant to be emergency only, but sewage overflow has to be dealt with pretty rapidly. They try not to. What do you do, when the system is overloaded? I am amazed Paris has been able to restore river health enough to do this. Well done!
- defrost 3y ago> What do you do, when the system is overloaded? Bazalgette 2.0 - post millennium mega sewer on steroids. We’re building a 25km Super Sewer under the Thames to intercept those nasty spills and clean up our river for the good of the city, its wildlife and you. https://www.tideway.london/ https://www.tideway.london/ Impressive and hopefully enough for a few years. It's a massive project with many tunnel lines, deep sink holes to pump stations and tunnel boring machine launch and recovery points etc. Until then - don't flush those f-ing wet wipes!! :-) Super Sewer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZszSTjZ-i4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZszSTjZ-i4
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- smohare 3y ago[dead]
- MattGaiser 3y agoPlenty of environmentalism is just for future projects. Canada is willing to derail all sorts of new projects over pollution concerns, but it wasn't until 2020 that we stopped a pulp mill from just dumping their waste in a estuary and they thought that the government wasn't serious, so they didn't take meaningful action.
- xmprt 3y agoStop the bleeding is an acceptable policy for these types of things. Just because other existing projects have pollution concerns isn't a good reason to approve new projects with pollution concerns. And once you cut off creating new projects you can slowly get through the rest of the backlog of existing issues which will either get fixed or die out eventually.
- refurb 3y agoVictoria,BC has been dumping untreated sewage into the ocean up to a few years ago.
- refurb 3y agoI find it hard to wrap my head around a liberal European country letting a river stay so contaminated it's dangerous to swim in, at least in this century. I think your assumptions around liberal European countries is seriously flawed.
- littlestymaar 3y agoAFAIK the main problem with the Seine isn't industrial pollution, it's black water biological pollution that results of how the sewers have been designed: unlike in most cities, in Paris the sewers collect both wastewater and rainwater, but when it rains “too much” (and the ceiling isn't that high) then the system overflow to the Seine, bringing a lot of heavily poluted water to it.
- jacobsenscott 3y agoWell, it was fixed less than a quarter of the way through this century. For a city the size of Paris, with a sewer system more than a century old, I would say they did well.
- HdS84 3y agoGerman here. You can absolutely remediate heavily polluted rivers. Best example might be the Rhine. It was so toxic in the 70s that everything in it died. Now it's a nice river with lots of living things and you can absolutely swim in it. It's still dangerous because of ships and currents, but at least the water itself won't kill you. But there are still lots of other rivers where remediation takes still place, e.g. because the rivers was used for raw sewage.
- fransje26 3y agoYep. All the toxic stuff moved on to the Netherlands...
- zokier 3y agoI don't know if there are any rivers going through major european cities that I would consider safe to swim in. You have to understand that the current-day environmentalism is only a recent phenomena, while the waters have been getting polluted for centuries. It just takes lot of time and effort to turn that around.
- MrBuddyCasino 3y agoThe Isar in Munich is safe and people swim in it all the time. It helps that it is not navigable, except by kayaks and rubber boats (sometimes).
- bigbluesax 3y agoThe Danube running through Vienna is safe to swim in: https://www.wien.gv.at/forschung/laboratorien/umweltmedizin/wasserhygiene/badewasserqualitaet/index.html https://www.wien.gv.at/forschung/laboratorien/umweltmedizin/... The water quality doesn't protect you from the current or the heavy boat traffic through. So most swimming is done in a disconnected side channel called "Alte Donau".
- insane_dreamer 3y agoThere's a nude beach there too (or at least there was 20 years ago)
- lgvld 3y agoI remember you can have a swim in Stockholm.
- alkonaut 3y agoThe rapids in the city center are famously clean enough för salmon and trout, but like any densely populated area there are also places and times of the year when the water isn’t good for swimming.
- hannob 3y agoWell, Berlin has the same issue. Unlike Paris, it has no plan of cleaning up the Spree any time soon. It has been discussed every now and then, but it's always too complicated, or the solutions available aren't liked by the people in charge.
- arethuza 3y agoI thought I had seen people swimming in the Spree - turns out it was a swimming pool floating in the Spree! https://www.visitberlin.de/en/badeschiff-der-arena https://www.visitberlin.de/en/badeschiff-der-arena
- hannob 3y agoYeah, that's the perfect symbol of what's wrong... "Our river is so dirty, it's too dangerous to swim in there. Let's build a swimming pool into the river!"
- NeoTar 3y agoPeople swim in the Muggelsee which is basically a part of the Spree...
- guruz 3y agoThere is an initiative that wants to have a side channel of the Spree for bathing. Close to Museumsinsel / Fischerinsel. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flussbad_Berlin https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flussbad_Berlin https://www.flussbad-berlin.de/ https://www.flussbad-berlin.de/
- slowmotiony 3y agoLots of areas in Paris where you can't even walk around because it's too dangerous - the river is really the least of our problems.
- hermitcrab 3y agoIs that from personal experience or hearsay?
- steeve 3y agoI am Parisian. Please enlighten me where those places are so I don't go. /s
- slowmotiony 3y agoSure - Gare du Nord, Jaurés, Barbès, Cambrai, Goutte d’Or, all around Périphérique highway, and probably lots of other ones. Here's a link to a "BeSafe" app to help you navigate Paris without being pickpocketed or shanked! https://apps.apple.com/us/app/besafe/id425631096 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/besafe/id425631096
- steeve 3y agoFor the poor soul that had to read this, these are typical places people would answer. I literally walk through Gare du Nord every week at midnight and never even had a bad look. Sure, drug addicts and black market smokes, your typical poor area. You are actually more likely to get mugged on the Champs Elysées or the 16th.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- papa-whisky 3y agoTangentially related: https://www.messynessychic.com/2019/04/26/the-lost-floating-pools-of-paris/ https://www.messynessychic.com/2019/04/26/the-lost-floating-...
- Poudlardo 3y agoParisian here. No way I dip even a toe on this river.
- usednet 3y agoIn my college days I jumped in off a bridge with a French girl I met an hour before. We were both fine (I think)
- coding123 3y agoWow, I would like to hear more.
- crossroadsguy 3y agoNo, please don’t. Those Linklater films have already shown too much of (for most of the world anyway) serendipitous unrealistic European romance :)
- defrost 3y agoYou'd be inSeine if you did.
- jonplackett 3y ago[flagged]
- quickthrower2 3y agoOr any river without DD! Or any near-urban seawater after a first rainfall after dry spell. Because of runoff.
- Arainach 3y agoWhat's DD in this context?
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- Mistletoe 3y ago>For the 2024 Summer Olympics, swimming events will take place in that river, so authorities have spent $1.6 billion on a solution. They dug a giant reservoir to capture untreated sewage before it flows into the channel. https://www.npr.org/2023/07/26/1190123421/after-100-years-paris-says-it-will-again-allow-swimming-in-the-river-seine https://www.npr.org/2023/07/26/1190123421/after-100-years-pa...
- stingraycharles 3y agoOut of curiosity, does this imply there is some permanent solution implemented here that will benefit the river after the Olympics as well? I can imagine that having a clean river is good for many things, and they will keep using this facility?
- notatoad 3y agoI don’t know what paris is doing here, but I doubt it. It’s fairly standard practice for triathlons to dump a whole bunch of bleach into a lake or river to make it safe to swim in for a couple of days, but without continual treatment it quickly goes back to normal.
- seszett 3y ago> It’s fairly standard practice for triathlons to dump a whole bunch of bleach into a lake or river to make it safe to swim I'm not sure where this might be standard practice, but this would be very illegal in most of Europe. So that's not what is going to be done (as explained in the article).
- LeanderK 3y agodefinitely illegal in Europe, never heard of it. Wouldn't that massively hurt the environment???
- Timshel 3y agoYes the goal is that three spots will become permanent in 2025.
- ugiox 3y agoSwimming in the Rhine river in Basel (Switzerland) has been possible for a long time and is even officially sanctioned by the city https://www.basel.com/en/activities-excursions/swimming-rhine https://www.basel.com/en/activities-excursions/swimming-rhin...
- refactor_master 3y agoSwimming in the Copenhagen harbor (Denmark) is also possible https://www.visitcopenhagen.com/copenhagen/activities/baths-and-beaches https://www.visitcopenhagen.com/copenhagen/activities/baths-... It might have a slight upper hand in cleanliness with being directly connected to the sea.
- harry8 3y agoSwimming in Sydney Harbour is also possible. They did it for a leg of the triathalon in the olympics a couple of decades back. Wouldn't recommend though, there's a lot of bull sharks in there and they're kinda aggressive. Netted beaches and bays are the go.
- dredmorbius 3y agoOr the North Sydney pool, when it re-opens, with luck next month. Not open water, but salt, and an absolutely gorgeous location.
- lmpdev 3y agoOnly ~1,000km north, bullsharks have been filmed swimming in groups of ~150 near the Story Bridge in the Brisbane River To any tourists visiting Aus, please only ever swim where locals swim and only between the flags if on the coast
- mcv 3y agoI live in the eastern docklands of Amsterdam, and there's always lots of swimming here. Amsterdam has invested a lot in cleaning up its canals and other waterways and water quality has improved a lot over the past couple of decades. And there's no sharks.
- wdavidw 3y agoI live on a boat on the seine river in meudon, facing boulogne, just outide of paris downhill, about 15mn biking from eiffel towel. Me and our neighboors enjoy swiming and padding on hot days, many friends are fishing just outside our windows. Like mentioned in the article, we don’t go in the water after heaving rains. It is a wonderful environment with trees and fresh air.
- consumer451 3y ago> we don’t go in the water after heaving rains. I cannot emphasize enough how important this part is. I have a major incurable health issue from ignoring this rule.
- konschubert 3y agoIs this general advice or specific to Paris? And what is the background here?
- dukoid 3y agoHeavy rain tends to overloads combined sewer systems, leading to potential discharge of untreated sewage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_sewer#Health_impacts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_sewer#Health_impacts
- consumer451 3y agoThis rule applies to any water near land. You get runoff from dog, cat, bird defecation among whatever chemicals may be found on land. This is even if storm water sewage does not overflow. I lived in Key West for half of my life. I got addicted to swimming daily and would always go, no matter what. Now I have sinusitis caused cluster headaches. When I trace back events, the first one happened about a year into the swimming. Now they are truly debilitating. I would even add not swimming during an out-going tide if the water passes by nasty land. (nasty = like seemingly lovely mangroves where birds live or bird poo covered rocks) Now I always check water quality reports to find the cleanest water on vacation as well. Most places do them, even if not advertised.
- MezzoDelCammin 3y agoFor a bit of added context - swimming in Seine is way less risky already these days. The son of mayor of Paris has made a bit of a name for himself when he swam down the whole length of the river in 2021: https://www.thelocal.fr/20210224/paris-mayor-anne-hidalgos-son-reveals-challenge-to-swim-length-of-seine https://www.thelocal.fr/20210224/paris-mayor-anne-hidalgos-s...
- nerdbert 3y agoHimself?
- MezzoDelCammin 3y agowhat do You mean? As far as I know, he was accompanied on occasions by some media. But yes, he did the swimming himself.
- nerdbert 3y ago> what do You mean? I mean that Anne Hidalgo is a woman.
- MezzoDelCammin 3y agoShe is. Her son (the one who swam the length of Seine) is not.
- woodpanel 3y agoWhile certainly not the intention of media outlets worldwide abetting this PR stunt of a socialist mayor, it does highlight the question of a) was the Seine (or any urban river) really that much cleaner 100 years ago? b) since most cities with a polluted river tend to be situated down-stream – what actually did mayor Hidalgo really do in order to demand the praise here? I assume not much other than stop enforcing restrictions?
- seszett 3y ago> PR stunt of a socialist mayor Although the mayor who actually does it is socialist, it was initiated by a right-wing mayor (Jacques Chirac, who went on to become president) famously announcing he would himself swim in the Seine in the 90s (he didn't). a) it was probably not cleaner 100 years ago, but that's the year when swimming in the Seine was banned because of pollution b) Paris is not really downstream of any large city on the Seine and most of the pollution by far is produced by Paris and its suburbs, not by Troyes 150 km upstream. What they are doing to reduce pollution is explained in detail in the linked article.
- omnibrain 3y ago> socialist This word doesn't have the same meaning in Europe, than it has in the US. "Socialist" mainly describes some sort of social democratism, even when some people calling themselves socialist won't accept that label for themselves. On the other hand in the US you seem to call everything left of the republicans "socialist" and everything left of right wing democrats "marxist". And you even label totally unrelated things like gender expression "marxist".
- pjc50 3y agoThe phenomenon of Americans calling things like "working public transport" or "clean water" "communism" has led to a reaction where people who want all sorts of perfectly normal social-democrat things start labelling themselves as "communist" on the internet. It's very silly.
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- sideshowb 3y agoMeanwhile in the UK https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57947635 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57947635
- curiousgal 3y agoYou have always been able to swim in the Thames albeit only in Canary Wharf.
- hermitcrab 3y agoAs an occasional kayaker and outdoor swimmer I am appalled at what greedy water companies (looking at you, Thames Water) and sloppy environmental enforcement have done to river and beaches in the UK. It is an absolute disgrace that the government have allowed the current state of affairs.
- devnullbrain 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Holmes#Biography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Holmes#Biography https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Ramsey_(mathematician)#Early_death https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Ramsey_(mathematician)#E...
- w-m 3y agoMy aunt used to live in Paris. I remember, she used to come home and tell us these stories about being abroad. And I remember she told us that she jumped into the river once, barefoot. She smiled, leapt without looking and tumbled into the Seine. The water was freezing, she spent a month sneezing, but said she would do it again. Here's to the ones who dream, foolish as they may seem. Here's to the hearts that ache, here's to the mess we make.
- lightdusk 3y ago[flagged]
- milanhbs 3y agoI live in Basel, Switzerland, where it is common sport to jump into the river Rhine on a hot day, and float right through historic downtown. It’s a marvellous thing, even just to watch. Really adds to quality of life! Edit: Missed the other comment by a fellow Baseler.
- ggambetta 3y agoSame on the Limmat in Zürich, such a relaxing 2-hour float down the river (only interrupted by the deadly dam in the middle).
- 01acheru 3y agoI would like to post a small advice: know the river or lake before you go swimming into it. If you don't ask the locals. I'm from northern Italy and we have a lot of small rivers and lakes here, from the outside most of them seem pretty innocent but there are drownings every single year. Most people that drown here are immigrants that don't know how treacherous an alpine river or lake might be, it usually happens in the summer and is always a sad story to hear. A couple of weeks ago two people died in my province: the son went swimming, an undercurrent pulled him under the surface, then his father tried to save him and got pulled under in the same way. Please be careful!
- asymmetric 3y agoDo you know if there are public resources one can check to know how to stay safe, or is asking locals the best options? My only gripe with that is that it’s not always possible, one might find oneself by a seemingly nice river/lake with nobody around.
- 01acheru 3y agoI'm sorry but I don't know any source for this kind of data, if there is nobody around to ask to then it is up on you to risk it.
- dghughes 3y agoI saw a video of a small stream and I mean small just 2m across a bit more in other places but it can be 10m deep! It looks like you can step in to your knees but really it's very deep. It's in England it is called Bolton Strid. I'm not in England myself I just read about it.
- jacquesm 3y agoThat's the most dangerous stream in Europe afaik.
- jfim 3y agoOut of curiosity, what's dangerous about Alpine lakes? I understand that rivers can have currents that can pull and hold people underwater, but I can't think of a risk for lakes other than hypothermia.
- rurban 3y agoFor a more technical explanation, because we had the same problem in our city, and fixed it in a similar way: > One of the main problems has been the 19th-Century "single system" drainage infrastructure, which unites household waste water from kitchens and toilets with run-off from rain on the street. Big cities came up with their canalization in the 18th century in two ways: open or closed canals. A closed canal system (with proper tubes) would be safe, no dirt (street dirt, mostly dog shit) could overspill on heavy summer rains into the canals and river, but this would require about 10x larger tubes, just for the few summer days (about 10 days a year). And a normal river with normal oxygen levels can easily fixup itself after such a spill. I.e. a flowing river, no dams near cities. And no industrial sewage directly into the river (which does not happen in civilized countries since the 80ies). Almost every european city uses an open canal system, where in those few heavy rain days during the summer (and this can likely happen during summer olympics), the canal gates need to be opened so that the street water can overspill into the river, and it mixes with the dirt water from the open canal. So you do have heavy shit pollution in the river for about 3 days. No swimming, bad smell, E.Coli poisoning, rat bacteria (black plague). So what a few richer cities, or the stupid ones which destroyed the natural cleaning abilities of the river by building dams near their cities for electricity (such as my city Graz, Austria), had to do, was to build such huge overspill cylinders or side canals to keep it from flowing directly into the river, but into their water treatment plant instead. With more southern cities this would be impossible, as the rainfall is too heavy. E.g. in Houston you'll get a downpoor for 20minutes, with streets and canals flooded, cars need to stop, but then it goes on. In such subtropical cities you cannot think of building closed canal systems or such side spill reservoirs. The peek volume is way too high to be able to control it. And their rivers do contain poisonous snakes and alligators anyway.
- fransje26 3y ago> A closed canal system (with proper tubes) would be safe, no dirt (street dirt, mostly dog shit) could overspill on heavy summer rains into the canals and river There is a logic step I'm missing here. I fail to see how a closed canal system is safer. Will the dirty water not, by definition, end up in the lowest point anyway, i.e. the river? Whether the canals are open or closed? I mean, the dirty water is not just going to disappear, is it?
- sourcecodeplz 3y agoI dunno, used to do things like this when I was a poor kid but not anymore. Too many chemicals in todays world.
- Broken_Hippo 3y agoI can almost promise you that there were just as many chemicals then - if not more. I'm in my 40s, and river pollution started decades if not at least a century before I was born. You just weren't as aware as a child.
- contingencies 3y agoFWIW people swim every day in Sydney harbour - some naked - although some parts are polluted and there are sharks, one of whom took a chunk out of a navy diver. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/bull-shark-attack-sydney-survivor-b2140197.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/bull-sh...
- zx2c4 3y agoI love the initiative, of course. How could I not? The idea of folks casually taking a dip in this city is really nice. I spend a lot of time beside the Seine - writing code on my laptop, even! - and being able to dangle my legs in sounds nice. But... No matter what they say about bacteria measurements and other high quality quantitative indicators, there will still be swimming bags of potato chips and cigarette cartons and beer cans and receipts, and all the other junk Parisians tend to toss in there, even the occasional Vélib' bicycle. The thought of going for a nice swim only to whack my foot on a rusted underwater bicycle gear and then leave the water with a sandwich wrapper clinging to my back isn't very appealing. So I wonder how this will be managed, and how separated the three proposed swimming spots will be. With that said, I went swimming in the Ohio River as a child, and I guess I'm still alive, so ¯ \ _ ( ツ ) _ / ¯
- Galanwe 3y agoYou forgot dead animals and syringes
- jacquesm 3y agoAnd between 20 and 50 dead people every year.
- mablopoule 3y ago"It's like the ocean, but cleaner"
- jacquesm 3y agoI doubt that, actually.
- sneak 3y agoSeems that this could be addressed separately with better enforcement for littering/dumping? People there don't regularly assault people on the street, brandish firearms, or drive vehicles without number plates. There is a possibility for law enforcement to set social expectations around dumping such that people don't actually do it out of fear of serious legal consequences.
- bsaul 3y agoRented a boat on the seine once, close to Paris ( near boulogne). We saw people swimming right next to our boat. The problem is that we also knew the boat watercloset went directly outside in the river. You could even see the stream of water and feces rushing out everytime you flushed it. Felt a bit sorry for those guys.
- s_dev 3y agoThere are rules about when you can empty those bilge tanks -- you don't do it when docked and you don't do it when travelling up a river with people swimming in it.
- yardie 3y agoThis must have been a really old boat that was grandfathered in before EU RCD rules went into effect. You never really get away from feces in the water. Any natural body is going to have fish, animal, and even human waste. But you can control for the quantity. Water plant life is hugely important to natural filtering. They can be overwhelmed and destroyed by stormwater, sewage runoff, and chemical runoff.
- Reubachi 3y agoWelp, what you did was illegal and It seems that since that incident you haven't realized that. next time drop the bilge....in a spot that common sense would dictate.
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- jschveibinz 3y agoWith climate change raising water temperatures in lakes, ponds and potentially rivers, it’s important to remember the risk of N. fowleri (brain eating amoeba): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naegleria_fowleri https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naegleria_fowleri
- codyb 3y agoI saw folk swimming in the East River off of Queens here in NYC and I was really pumped. I may have to check that spot out this year. There's whales and seals again in the harbor too. It's amazing what decades of focused effort and time can do to clean up places. May we continue to do this the world round as we collectively grow to care for our planet a bit more (in order to preserve ourselves of course) here.
- js2 3y agoThe oldest standing bridge across the Seine is Pont Neuf, "New Bridge", of course. It's the setting for the remarkable film Les Amants du Pont-Neuf: https://youtu.be/y2OjjtY1A80 https://youtu.be/y2OjjtY1A80 This is what I think of whenever I see the Seine in the news. Internet Archive has the full movie: https://archive.org/details/les.-amants.-du.-pont-neuf-1991 https://archive.org/details/les.-amants.-du.-pont-neuf-1991