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It’s a long article lamenting that onshore manufacturing doesn’t work. But, maybe it’s just they weren’t good at it? Maybe their leadership was poor? Perhaps th

by medion 3y ago

It’s a long article lamenting that onshore manufacturing doesn’t work. But, maybe it’s just they weren’t good at it? Maybe their leadership was poor? Perhaps their technical automation solutions were poor? I refuse to believe that the only way to make things is on effectively slave labour.

DieBruderBauer 3y ago
The response is always: "Oh, well, we're not making enough profit to justify staying open." Are you serious? It's greed manifest at sociopathic levels.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  When employees quit to take a higher paying job elsewhere, do you feel the same way? They weren’t making enough to “justify staying open” at their old job, so they changed and we celebrate them for their action (as we should, IMO). When we use a coupon or shop on Black Friday, we’re being smart, frugal purchasers. When companies do the equivalent, what are they doing?
  - eschneider 3y ago
    Most companies frown on employees working multiple full time jobs, so yeah, gotta quit the existing job to take a new one. Companies can operate multiple lines of business.
    - teeray 3y ago
      Unless they’re hourly. Then sure, go work another shift elsewhere as long as you can keep your eyes open here. Wooooah, FTE and want to tend bar on the weekend? Forget it.
  - genocidicbunny 3y ago
    We don't have to have the same rules for people as for companies. There's absolutely nothing preventing us from saying "If person does X, it's fine. If company does X, it's bad."
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
- Barrin92 3y ago
  For regular commodities economics obviously matter, it makes sense to produce goods where it is done most efficiently, both for the buyer as well as for the producer. A wrench isn't a cutting edge semiconductor, if you're going to ignore price signals what's next, state level wrench patriotism because those bastards in Ohio can't get away with stealing our wrench industry in Tennessee? Business should focus on what they're profitable at, that's just indicates proper allocation of resources.
happytoexplain 3y ago
It is not the only way, it is the most cost-effective way. Our system is designed to evolve for cost, which inevitably means harm to workers, by rewarding slavish work in cheap places to live and discouraging American work. We absolutely can do loads of stuff onshore with some investment, but it clashes with our system at a deeply fundamental level. If there is one singlular solitary sentiment I agree with hard-conservatives on, it's "America first" (or really just the idea of "<our society> first" in general). Scrubbed of the oft-hinted disdain for others, of course.
- medion 3y ago
  It’s also about driving everything to the bottom. Why does society need a cheap throwaway tool? What if only high quality, well made tools were available that truly reflected their production cost - both materially, environmentally and in terms of complete labour cost (as in, well paid employees with adequate 401k, holidays, etc). Not everyone needs a cheap tool, what if the tool reflected the true cost and it was very expensive and only a few have them? What happens? You borrow one. You save up for one. You pay a professional who has all the right tools. I’m pretty sure this is (put very simply), how it always worked until globalization was sold as a good idea. It’s funny how democracy attempted to trickle down into materialism - as in we think it’s our god damn right to own whatever we want at the lowest possible cost regardless of its effects.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
    I suspect that it has more to do with the desire to have tools. No one in the year 1900 would have said they did not want tools. They were essential, and even if you had no particular need for a tool yourself, it was something to loan for favor trading. If someone would've have given them high quality tools, it'd be like gifting you or me a spaceship. Today? Who wants a tool, they live in places where they can't even keep more than the tiniest assortment of tools, and they use them infrequently enough for them to be more of a burden than an asset. If such people do not want tools, they sure as hell don't want expensive, high quality tools. Those are like the cheap ones, but they cost more and you cry more when you lose them moving to the next apartment. And if no one wants high quality tools... Well, no one's going to bother to sell them. If I'm honest, it's a little bit of what you say and the two effects play off on each other as it spirals down into the void.
bombcar 3y ago
As I mentioned in another comment, it's clearly their fault; because Milwaukee has successfully (so far) done it, and prices aren't up "that much". https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-usa-made-pliers-screwdrivers-pricing-preorders-2023/ https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-usa-made-pliers-screwdrivers-...
r00fus 3y ago
Perhaps this isn't just a case of labor costs and failure of automation but also a story of business venture that simply failed due to a once-in-a-century pandemic and our government's poor handling of it (by two administrations): "Executives said at Stanley’s May 2019 investor day that the factory would be in production in 18 months. Former employees said that timetable, thrown off by the pandemic, meant the system wasn’t properly tested before being brought up to scale. " Consequently: "By then, Stanley had already announced it was divesting its security business, its oil-and-gas unit and a door-making division in a bid to become a more focused company. An earnings call in July 2022 revealed that the core tool business had suffered a sudden drop in demand after the boom times of the pandemic."
Rapzid 3y ago
This idea that "the USA can't manufacture anything any more" is bullshit. Just looks at all the stuff we DO manufacture like Boeing aircraft, the latest microprocessors, and most advanced spacecraft.
- lyu07282 3y ago
  Also you don't have to either, you really only have to make airplanes, ships, weapons and missiles, everything else is kind of unnecessary if you have those. As long as you have the bigger stick nothing else really matters, of course you'll be hated by everyone else but that's not really a problem. You just call that stick "liberalism" and call it a day.

by medion 3y ago

DieBruderBauer 3y ago

The response is always: "Oh, well, we're not making enough profit to justify staying open." Are you serious? It's greed manifest at sociopathic levels.

sokoloff 3y ago
When employees quit to take a higher paying job elsewhere, do you feel the same way? They weren’t making enough to “justify staying open” at their old job, so they changed and we celebrate them for their action (as we should, IMO). When we use a coupon or shop on Black Friday, we’re being smart, frugal purchasers. When companies do the equivalent, what are they doing?
- eschneider 3y ago
  Most companies frown on employees working multiple full time jobs, so yeah, gotta quit the existing job to take a new one. Companies can operate multiple lines of business.
  - teeray 3y ago
    Unless they’re hourly. Then sure, go work another shift elsewhere as long as you can keep your eyes open here. Wooooah, FTE and want to tend bar on the weekend? Forget it.
- genocidicbunny 3y ago
  We don't have to have the same rules for people as for companies. There's absolutely nothing preventing us from saying "If person does X, it's fine. If company does X, it's bad."
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
Barrin92 3y ago
For regular commodities economics obviously matter, it makes sense to produce goods where it is done most efficiently, both for the buyer as well as for the producer. A wrench isn't a cutting edge semiconductor, if you're going to ignore price signals what's next, state level wrench patriotism because those bastards in Ohio can't get away with stealing our wrench industry in Tennessee? Business should focus on what they're profitable at, that's just indicates proper allocation of resources.

happytoexplain 3y ago

It is not the only way, it is the most cost-effective way. Our system is designed to evolve for cost, which inevitably means harm to workers, by rewarding slavish work in cheap places to live and discouraging American work. We absolutely can do loads of stuff onshore with some investment, but it clashes with our system at a deeply fundamental level. If there is one singlular solitary sentiment I agree with hard-conservatives on, it's "America first" (or really just the idea of "<our society> first" in general). Scrubbed of the oft-hinted disdain for others, of course.

medion 3y ago
It’s also about driving everything to the bottom. Why does society need a cheap throwaway tool? What if only high quality, well made tools were available that truly reflected their production cost - both materially, environmentally and in terms of complete labour cost (as in, well paid employees with adequate 401k, holidays, etc). Not everyone needs a cheap tool, what if the tool reflected the true cost and it was very expensive and only a few have them? What happens? You borrow one. You save up for one. You pay a professional who has all the right tools. I’m pretty sure this is (put very simply), how it always worked until globalization was sold as a good idea. It’s funny how democracy attempted to trickle down into materialism - as in we think it’s our god damn right to own whatever we want at the lowest possible cost regardless of its effects.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  I suspect that it has more to do with the desire to have tools. No one in the year 1900 would have said they did not want tools. They were essential, and even if you had no particular need for a tool yourself, it was something to loan for favor trading. If someone would've have given them high quality tools, it'd be like gifting you or me a spaceship. Today? Who wants a tool, they live in places where they can't even keep more than the tiniest assortment of tools, and they use them infrequently enough for them to be more of a burden than an asset. If such people do not want tools, they sure as hell don't want expensive, high quality tools. Those are like the cheap ones, but they cost more and you cry more when you lose them moving to the next apartment. And if no one wants high quality tools... Well, no one's going to bother to sell them. If I'm honest, it's a little bit of what you say and the two effects play off on each other as it spirals down into the void.

bombcar 3y ago

As I mentioned in another comment, it's clearly their fault; because Milwaukee has successfully (so far) done it, and prices aren't up "that much". https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-usa-made-pliers-screwdrivers-pricing-preorders-2023/ https://toolguyd.com/milwaukee-usa-made-pliers-screwdrivers-...

r00fus 3y ago

Perhaps this isn't just a case of labor costs and failure of automation but also a story of business venture that simply failed due to a once-in-a-century pandemic and our government's poor handling of it (by two administrations): "Executives said at Stanley’s May 2019 investor day that the factory would be in production in 18 months. Former employees said that timetable, thrown off by the pandemic, meant the system wasn’t properly tested before being brought up to scale. " Consequently: "By then, Stanley had already announced it was divesting its security business, its oil-and-gas unit and a door-making division in a bid to become a more focused company. An earnings call in July 2022 revealed that the core tool business had suffered a sudden drop in demand after the boom times of the pandemic."

Rapzid 3y ago

This idea that "the USA can't manufacture anything any more" is bullshit. Just looks at all the stuff we DO manufacture like Boeing aircraft, the latest microprocessors, and most advanced spacecraft.

lyu07282 3y ago
Also you don't have to either, you really only have to make airplanes, ships, weapons and missiles, everything else is kind of unnecessary if you have those. As long as you have the bigger stick nothing else really matters, of course you'll be hated by everyone else but that's not really a problem. You just call that stick "liberalism" and call it a day.