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There’s a heatwave in the sea and scientists are worried
- gardenfelder 3y ago>Could warmer ocean temperatures be a sign climate change has progressed further than we thought?
- retrocryptid 3y ago[flagged]
- itsanaccount 3y ago"if you set off a rube goldberg type death trap to kill someone, if its a long enough machine, it ceases to become your fault if somebody dies at the end."
- _Algernon_ 3y ago"If you want something to sound profound, put it between quotation marks"
- fluoridation 3y agoQuidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
- plonk 3y agoYeah Latin works too.
- itsanaccount 3y agoif it would help that i would be more direct for you, i mean to say i think those who both knew and continued to make extreme profits off of oil extraction at the expense of a planets worth of people should be considered murderers. and lacking judicial means for justice due to those same murderers control of most governments, i predict they will probably be executed by small vigilante groups in the middle of the night, though mobs with torches and pitchforks are also a possibility. but that kind of statement and that rising sentiment behind it is generally scrubbed off the internet. who knows why, maybe its not profound enough.
- rootusrootus 3y agoNot a great analogy. It doesn't matter how big the rube goldberg machine is if there was only one input to begin with, it would still trace back to that input. The problem with climate is that there are billions of inputs spanning centuries. Trying to assign blame is a waste of time anyway, time that we don't have.
- yamazakiwi 3y agoIt's a great analogy for what they were pointing out. The point is not that these issues are traceable and thus inarguably someone's fault. The point is many times people don't have to take responsibility for these issues because they are indirect. The more indirect (the larger the Rube Goldberg Machine) the higher chance of avoiding responsibility.
- JohnFen 3y agoThen perhaps we need to reframe the issue from one of "taking responsibility" to one of "this is what we need to change in order to survive".
- yamazakiwi 3y agoThat's a much harder problem :)
- athrowaway3z 3y agoThe last month I've thought about this clip at least twice a week. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SYpUSjSgFg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SYpUSjSgFg
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bcrosby95 3y agoI think about this clip regularly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi6n_-wB154 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qi6n_-wB154
- sillywalk 3y agoIt could never happen today unfortunately.
- sillywalk 3y ago"Once and for all!" I think of this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNYp6oc37ds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNYp6oc37ds
- kardianos 3y ago[flagged]
- jmclnx 3y agoI am sure you are right /s - It has nothing to do with this: https://slate.com/technology/2014/08/atmospheric-co2-humans-put-40-billion-tons-into-the-air-annually.html https://slate.com/technology/2014/08/atmospheric-co2-humans-... Sorry, but you get the honor of getting my first real down vote.
- f6v 3y agoI’m to fried to read it today. Is it based on actual science? I mean people measuring natural phenomena and not just fantasizing about it?
- olddustytrail 3y agoNo, it's crap written by a clueless arse who doesn't know any physics but is trying to handwave over it with philosophical pretention.
- FrustratedMonky 3y agoIsn't this the plot to the movie 2012?
- jaynetics 3y ago[flagged]
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoThis may be a bit harsh, but it reminds me of the scene from A Beautiful Mind when they walk into John Nash's office and it's just magazine clippings pasted all over the wall with lines and numbers.
- jacquesm 3y ago> "Gefährliches Halbwissen" My English version: Articulate idiots.
- olouv 3y ago[flagged]
- slowmovintarget 3y agoWell... No. This is pretty much what scientists have been expecting for a few decades now.
- bad_alloc 3y agoThis pseudo-intellectual doubt in the face of overwhelming scientific consensus is pathetic and part of the problem. What is the goal? Laying breadcumbs for climate-change deniers to follow to some trap for the gullible?
- bena 3y agoThis is the one thing I dislike about Penn Jillette. The way he excuses himself from his former stance on climate change. He accepts it now, but he says "there wasn't enough evidence back then" and "they didn't do a good enough job to convince [me]". But it's not their job to convince him. They're the ones who have spent their lives studying this. And they're convinced. The number of people with the education and expertise who are convinced far outnumber those who even claim the same level of education and expertise who are not convinced. And this has been true for at least 30 years.
- JohnFen 3y agoBut he changed his position, and that's all that really matters. Why he held a different position before isn't actually that important, and I'm not inclined to criticize or shame anyone for stances they no longer have.
- jacquesm 3y agoIt actually is important. Let me try to explain: the way he phrases it is is as though he needed some internal level to be crossed before he would change his mind. Even though he is way out of his area of expertise. He should have said instead "I didn't know what I was talking about". That way others who also don't know what they are talking about (see some of the commenters in this thread) might take the hint that this isn't about your personal standards for facts, it is about the scientists who have devoted their lives to this subject whose standards apply. So he could have done a better job on the retraction.
- jmclnx 3y agoThen there is this: https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66256101 https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66256101 >in fact I'm very pessimistic about achieving even 2C In the US, the GOP refused to do anything and held the US hostage so they could cash in by taking bribes from the fossil fuel industry. The other party was too afraid to stand up to the GOP and fossil fuel industry, so nothing at all was done except talk. All the hot air from the pols taking about climate changed, probably contributed to the raising ave temp. So here we are, baking in a pot where temps are raising slowly, like a lobster.
- srgpqt 3y agoLike the boiled frog, perhaps we have not even realized that we are already cooked/doomed.
- hn_throwaway_99 3y agoI don't know, I feel like it's already pretty obvious that we're "cooked/doomed", with some caveats: 1. Even in the worst case I haven't seen any level-headed scientists argue that the Earth will be uninhabitable a la Venus. We'll get a hotter planner, sea levels will rise considerably inundating coastal areas, the current anthropocene extinction event will accelerate, storms will be a lot more intense, etc. Obviously a major set of problems, but I think it's important to be specific about what those problems will be as opposed to "we'll all be dead". 2. Whenever someone even remotely argues that we'll be able to stick to some reasonable emissions targets I like to show this graph, https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions#global-co2-emissions-from-fossil-fuels-global-co2-emissions-from-fossil-fuels https://ourworldindata.org/co2-emissions#global-co2-emission.... That is, it's good news that global emissions have largely stabilized over the past decade, but we're still pumping out over 35 billion tons of carbon every year. We need to find a way, somehow, to bring that to near 0, and while tech may get us there eventually I don't see that happening in my lifetime (I'm middle aged).
- snarf21 3y agoAgreed .. A lot of people will die as places become uninhabitable for a very very long time .. Access to clean water will become a major issue and the poor will lose (even more than they already are) .. Humans are a greedy species and this planet just can't support 8B+ (and counting of us) .. I don't know what it can support but we'll soon find out .. We are still decades away from near zero fossil fuels globally and yet we are still growing crops in the desert and watering it so people can have fun hitting a white ball .. Even if we can get to near 100% wind/solar/battery, we'll be busy polluting anything and everything with rare earth minerals as we churn through batteries like candy .. I don't see life being very fun in 50 years, even for the richest people
- gfdsgvbcd 3y ago[flagged]
- danielovichdk 3y agoThe faster humans can get off the planet the better the earth will become. I don't mind all the climate change talk. But I do mind the symptoms curing. The best people can come up with are fucking electrical cars and artificial meat. Because we too many fucking people to serve natural foods. What the fuuuck is wrong with us? I might sound pessimistic but I don't have any faith in humanity as for saving the world. Absolutely none. Very few are willing to sacrifice what it really takes to adjust. And I get that. It would probably mean we needed to kill a few billion in the west, india and far east. Who wants to join that lottery? No way. I want my car, my fairly big house, two kids, my fridge and my flights out when it's cold. Let it burn for all I care. I hope it will. Because deep inside i know the earth will prevail. Its just a matter of how many humans it will take along with it.
- 7952 3y agoThe best we can come up with is not electric cars and synthetic meat but bicycles and vegetables.
- valval 3y agoWhen you atrophy on your vegetable only diet, at least you’re guaranteed to be easy to overpower when the meat eaters need to get rid of some people to sustain resources further.
- 7952 3y agoYour hypothetical meat eaters are stuck at the side of the road where they ran out of petrol.
- selimthegrim 3y agoBartertown vs Flavortown, which will prevail?
- foobiekr 3y agoThe only way any significant fractions will get off the earth is in the metaphoric sense: they died. The energy required to move any even a trivial population people off the planet is not attainable.
- happytiger 3y agoI don’t think it’s just the scientists that are worried at this point. The question is whether there is a general willingness to accept the implications of our currently unsustainable course needing a hefty correction in a timeframe that doesn’t lead to devastating consequences is looking increasingly unlikely. It’s nice that “scientists are concerned,” buts it’s deeply dismissive language that should have stayed in the 90/ and genuinely, headlines like these actively contribute to the problem.
- SentinelLdnma 3y agoCharts Antarctic Sea Ice: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1jhzeRagAE_lAd?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1jhzeRagAE_lAd?format=jpg&name=... North Atlantic Sea Surface: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1kbWmLaMAA48AI?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1kbWmLaMAA48AI?format=jpg&name=...
- myshpa 3y agohttps://essd.copernicus.org/articles/15/1675/2023/ https://essd.copernicus.org/articles/15/1675/2023/ We've added the energy of 25 billion nuclear bombs to the Earth system in just the last 50 years. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/climate-change-ocean-heat-new-record-atomic-bombs-getting-worse-researchers/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/climate-change-ocean-heat-new-r... Last year, researchers say, the ocean heated up an amount equal to the energy of five of those bombs detonating underwater "every second for 24 hours a day for the entire year." ... the ocean in 2022 was "the hottest ever recorded by humans." It increased by 10.9 Zetta Joules, an amount of energy equivalent to the atomic bomb dropped on Hiroshima and an amount of heat about 100 times more than the electricity generated worldwide in 2021 --- This year is off the charts completely. DATA RELEASED TODAY. North Atlantic Sea Surface Temperature Anomaly 1982 - 2023 (20/7-2023) https://preview.redd.it/7ibmzvsi6ddb1.jpg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c53a15244a605b29e1e4d785502bcd83ce34e7c9 https://preview.redd.it/7ibmzvsi6ddb1.jpg?width=680&format=p... THE DAY BEFORE (19/7-2023). North Atlantic Sea Surface Temperature Anomaly 1982 - 2023 https://preview.redd.it/payaxtpj6ddb1.jpg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3cd3f38598065f99c26baeac2c31a718ecd34f72 https://preview.redd.it/payaxtpj6ddb1.jpg?width=1080&format=... Daily Sea Surface Temperatures in the North Atlantic (20/7-2023) https://preview.redd.it/q9ejy5xl6ddb1.jpg?width=1100&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=080c49f134a271c90ad31221b002adcf2fe22680 https://preview.redd.it/q9ejy5xl6ddb1.jpg?width=1100&format=...
- CrzyLngPwd 3y agoNo they are not. This articles doesn't appear on bbc.co.uk/news homepage so it is of little interest. "Scientists" are not worried. If "Scientists" were worried theyt would be marching in the streets.
- RC_ITR 3y agohttps://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2022/05/20/climate-change-scientists-protests/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2022/05/2... https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/scientists-stage-worldwide-climate-protests-after-ipcc-report-180979913/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/scientists-stage-w... https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/10/us/private-jets-climate-protests-airport.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/10/us/private-jets-climate-p...
- edejong 3y agoI wish we rephrased stuff by mentioning actors: “Our careless actions have resulted in an unprecedented and alarming heatwave in the sea.”
- christkv 3y agoWe are going through a very active solar cycle reaching the probable maximum. The sun is pumping out a lot more energy than normal. To ignore the sun as a relevant factor for warmer summers seems just bad science. Initially, peak activity was forecast to begin in July 2025. Now, experts believe the cyclical peak is more likely to take place in mid- to late 2024. https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/07/14/world/solar-maximum-activity-2024-scn/index.html https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/07/14/world/solar-maximum-activ...
- JohnFen 3y agoI don't think the sun's influence is being ignored.
- christkv 3y agoSure it does, just read the article from the BBC, not a single place does it mention the current solar maximum.
- JohnFen 3y agoI don't think a single piece from popular media demonstrates the full spectrum of thought amongst the experts. If you look at the actual research, solar effects are absolutely being taken into account.
- lnwlebjel 3y agoIt's not ignored. From NASA: "The amount of solar energy Earth receives has followed the Sun’s natural 11-year cycle of small ups and downs, with no net increase since the 1950s. Over the same period, global temperature has risen markedly. It is therefore extremely unlikely that the Sun has caused the observed global temperature warming trend over the past half-century." Relevant figure: https://royalsociety.org/-/media/Royal_Society_Content/policy/projects/climate-evidence-causes/fig2-large.jpg https://royalsociety.org/-/media/Royal_Society_Content/polic... It's not a lot. See also: https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/climate-change-evidence-causes/question-4/ https://royalsociety.org/topics-policy/projects/climate-chan... If you have better data, I'd like to see it.
- ChuckMcM 3y agoAlways a spicy topic here on HN. I point out to folks that if you look at planets that have high heat load in their atmosphere they also have constant atmospheric storms. If this planet is typical, what that means is that eventually there will be hurricanes in the mid-latitudes that last for months. Basically one hurricane (or typhoon) slamming into the continent after another. With the higher sea level and hurricane induced storm surge, water levels will have 10 - 30' (3 - 10m) annual fluctuations. Further north and south its just going to be a lot more water during the wet season. Sadly, if you're reading this it is my expectation you will live to see it happen.
- dang 3y agoRelated. Others? Unprecedented ocean temps “surpassing model predictions,” warn experts - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36684146 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36684146 - July 2023 (29 comments) New record anomaly for North Atlantic sea surface temperatures - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36433737 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36433737 - June 2023 (56 comments) Ocean temperatures are off the charts - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36319055 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36319055 - June 2023 (13 comments) World’s oceans at record high temperature for 80 consecutive days - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36187203 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36187203 - June 2023 (119 comments) Ocean Temperature - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35926821 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35926821 - May 2023 (53 comments) Ocean-surface temperatures are breaking records - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35841748 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35841748 - May 2023 (125 comments) Ocean Warming Study So Distressing, Some Scientists Didn't Want to Talk About It - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35747417 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35747417 - April 2023 (73 comments) Oceans’ sudden temperature spike stumps and alarms scientists - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35743531 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35743531 - April 2023 (5 comments)
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- bullen 3y agoThe placement is not random. Spain and France have Nuclear estuaries north of this area and the mistral pushes the hot surface water south. http://move.rupy.se/file/nuclear-sources.png http://move.rupy.se/file/nuclear-sources.png