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Why do wealthy people get so interested in societal collapse? It almost seems like if you don't have a visceral need for anything you have to invent a problem

Why do wealthy people get so interested in societal collapse? It almost seems like if you don't have a visceral need for anything you have to invent a problem to solve.

api 3y ago
The percentage is probably the same as average people who get sucked into 'doomerism'.
krapp 3y ago
There's no point in having wealth without an economy, or the power to control society without a society.
sangnoir 3y ago
> Why do wealthy people get so interested in societal collapse My theory is that they have opted-out of the social contract (or never believed in it), and they figure the rest of us have opted out too - or will do so in time, and we'll fall back to rugged individualism as civil order is undone.
- Dracophoenix 3y ago
  There was never a social contract people signed into in the first place. Every individual is born free, and not as thrall to retroactive "obligations" one had no part in instituting or causing.
  - sangnoir 3y ago
    > Every individual is born free, and not as thrall to retroactive "obligations" Moving from the philosophical realm into the practical - do you suppose a world free from law enforcement, a justice system, Delaware courts and enforcement of property right is better than the one with those things? These rich tech / VC guys see themselves as natural leaders, but I doubt they have what it takes to be warlords in their fantasy dystopia.
    - Dracophoenix 3y ago
      Aside from the Deleware Chancery, the world had everything you described long before the notion of the "social contract" was presented as a formal political theory by Hobbes. Also, the bit about warlords isn't a reasonable comment. The rich tech/ VC guys you speak of are in no more or less of a position to establish a dystopia, than Washington and the Continental Congress (many of whom were merchants and traders) were during and after the Revolutionary War.
      - sangnoir 3y ago
        > Aside from the Deleware Chancery, the world had everything you described long before the notion of the "social contract" was presented as a formal political theory by Hobbes Small-s "social contracts" predates Hobbes' formalization. The notion that different levels of the ruling- or socio-economic strata keep within certain unnegotiated norms seems intuitive to me and was well-known since before the feudal age: don't over-tax your citizens or risk rebellion, landlords not over-exploiting their serfs or the serfs would vote with their feet. Noblisse oblige has strains of the same thinking, and it predates Hobbes by quite a bit.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
user982 3y ago
They see the deaths of others as an opportunity to become kings over the survivors. As Reddit CEO Steve Huffman put it: "I also have this somewhat egotistical view that I’m a pretty good leader. I will probably be in charge, or at least not a slave, when push comes to shove." - https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-for-the-super-rich https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-... Perhaps notably, that same CEO is currently having to use admin tools to erase an r/place community drawing of his mascot head in a guillotine https://old.reddit.com/r/place/comments/154wiwk/admins_clearly_messing_with_things/ https://old.reddit.com/r/place/comments/154wiwk/admins_clear...
mattlondon 3y ago
Because they have reached a position in society where they get whatever they want. Nothing to worry about - just throw some money at a problem and a lackey makes it go away for you. But if there is a catastrophe/pandemic/war/flood/whatever they'd not be able to simply buy their way out of it like they can with pretty much everything in normal life that they can do today. Their startegy is buy a place (not just a property!) where they are largely in control of who comes there and what they do. Isolated islands obviously help with this because people won't be climbing over your fence like they wood on the mainland.
bugglebeetle 3y ago
Because their steering of society to their own, pernicious ends makes societal collapse far more likely.

Why do wealthy people get so interested in societal collapse? It almost seems like if you don't have a visceral need for anything you have to invent a problem to solve.

api 3y ago

The percentage is probably the same as average people who get sucked into 'doomerism'.

krapp 3y ago

There's no point in having wealth without an economy, or the power to control society without a society.

sangnoir 3y ago

> Why do wealthy people get so interested in societal collapse My theory is that they have opted-out of the social contract (or never believed in it), and they figure the rest of us have opted out too - or will do so in time, and we'll fall back to rugged individualism as civil order is undone.

Dracophoenix 3y ago
There was never a social contract people signed into in the first place. Every individual is born free, and not as thrall to retroactive "obligations" one had no part in instituting or causing.
- sangnoir 3y ago
  > Every individual is born free, and not as thrall to retroactive "obligations" Moving from the philosophical realm into the practical - do you suppose a world free from law enforcement, a justice system, Delaware courts and enforcement of property right is better than the one with those things? These rich tech / VC guys see themselves as natural leaders, but I doubt they have what it takes to be warlords in their fantasy dystopia.
  - Dracophoenix 3y ago
    Aside from the Deleware Chancery, the world had everything you described long before the notion of the "social contract" was presented as a formal political theory by Hobbes. Also, the bit about warlords isn't a reasonable comment. The rich tech/ VC guys you speak of are in no more or less of a position to establish a dystopia, than Washington and the Continental Congress (many of whom were merchants and traders) were during and after the Revolutionary War.
    - sangnoir 3y ago
      > Aside from the Deleware Chancery, the world had everything you described long before the notion of the "social contract" was presented as a formal political theory by Hobbes Small-s "social contracts" predates Hobbes' formalization. The notion that different levels of the ruling- or socio-economic strata keep within certain unnegotiated norms seems intuitive to me and was well-known since before the feudal age: don't over-tax your citizens or risk rebellion, landlords not over-exploiting their serfs or the serfs would vote with their feet. Noblisse oblige has strains of the same thinking, and it predates Hobbes by quite a bit.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

user982 3y ago

They see the deaths of others as an opportunity to become kings over the survivors. As Reddit CEO Steve Huffman put it: "I also have this somewhat egotistical view that I’m a pretty good leader. I will probably be in charge, or at least not a slave, when push comes to shove." - https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-for-the-super-rich https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/01/30/doomsday-prep-... Perhaps notably, that same CEO is currently having to use admin tools to erase an r/place community drawing of his mascot head in a guillotine https://old.reddit.com/r/place/comments/154wiwk/admins_clearly_messing_with_things/ https://old.reddit.com/r/place/comments/154wiwk/admins_clear...

mattlondon 3y ago

Because they have reached a position in society where they get whatever they want. Nothing to worry about - just throw some money at a problem and a lackey makes it go away for you. But if there is a catastrophe/pandemic/war/flood/whatever they'd not be able to simply buy their way out of it like they can with pretty much everything in normal life that they can do today. Their startegy is buy a place (not just a property!) where they are largely in control of who comes there and what they do. Isolated islands obviously help with this because people won't be climbing over your fence like they wood on the mainland.

bugglebeetle 3y ago

Because their steering of society to their own, pernicious ends makes societal collapse far more likely.