5 ms·

Cool, you have an affordable, tenuously waterproofed, chinese mass produced e-bike, it's your only available mode of transportation, you need to go into the off

Cool, you have an affordable, tenuously waterproofed, chinese mass produced e-bike, it's your only available mode of transportation, you need to go into the office for a meeting, and it's raining. Welcome to hell. Also, not sure if you've used public transportation recently, but man, it SUCKS. Far less time efficient than a car, often crowded during the times you want to use it, and ZERO enforcement of proper etiquette or rules or regulations as far as riders are concerned. If you could promise me a pleasant public transportation service, clean, no panhandling, no dude blasting music from his shitty offbrand bluetooth speaker, not unbearably hot/cold, armed security keeping the peace, then sure, I'll ride it every day. We both know that is literally never going to happen, and public transport will continue to be a minimally viable pipe dream that we spend far too much money on. TL;DR; Cars are here to stay, you need to make the cities work with them. Yes it's a harder problem to solve, but it's the problem you've got.

nerdbert 3y ago
> Cool, you have an affordable, tenuously waterproofed, chinese mass produced e-bike, it's your only available mode of transportation, you need to go into the office for a meeting, and it's raining. Welcome to hell. It's raining half the time here in the Netherlands. You can stand under a convenient overhang in the banking district of Amsterdam at 8am and watch the bankers pour into the underground bike parking lots. They use cheap and readily available outerwear that covers their clothes - including shoes - and keeps them dry. Suits, skirts, high heels, whatever.
- sitkack 3y ago
  No! It is impossible, simple untrue and cars are the only solution. /s If you come up with more evidence, I’ll move the straw goal post.
- themaninthedark 3y ago
  And thus contributing to the PSAF/forever chemical problem.
renewiltord 3y ago
It's not that hard to do. I ride in the rain and fog here in SF (the city under discussion), but you need dry pants. The real thing is that this is not an AV vs. ebike thing. Almost all people who ride bikes/ebikes here are pro-AV. It's mostly people not from SF and people who don't ride who are anti-AV. AVs are so much safer and predictable than human drivers.
- fnimick 3y ago
  I'd be cautious, considering Teslas in "self driving" have a nasty habit of running over single track vehicles (motorcycles and bicycles) because their systems don't recognize that anything narrower than a car exists. https://www.carscoops.com/2022/10/motorcycle-advocates-warn-of-tesla-autopilot-after-latest-fatal-crash-with-biker/ https://www.carscoops.com/2022/10/motorcycle-advocates-warn-...
_whiteCaps_ 3y ago
Something like the West Coast Express train in Vancouver is what you want - tables, washrooms, AC plugs for charging your stuff, etc. It's a great way to commute.
coryrc 3y ago
I agree with you on public transportation. But pre-pandemic I e-biked to the office rain or cloudy in Seattle 4 days a week. Albeit Seattle rains aren't usually heavy.
sfpotter 3y ago
The problem here is your attitude: it sucks. I’d elaborate on this, but it’s enough to read your post. Instead of baselessly concluding that everything you dislike and feel inconvenienced by will suck forever, have you considered feeling hope and optimism instead?
- briandear 3y ago
  Hope and optimism from the climate alarmist crowd? We’ve been told since Al Gore that the world should have already ended. That people want to take us back to the 1800s in transport tech isn’t very optimistic to me. People would rather have a train than airplanes. People would rather ride a bike in crappy weather than a comfortable car. People would rather we set our thermostats to 78 degrees than enjoy whatever temperatures we want in our house. There are people exciting about eating bugs because apparently cows are going to make the planet explode. Not much hope and optimism these days when the sky is perpetually falling.
  - fnimick 3y ago
    That's rich considering we just set a global record for highest average temperature ever recorded. Have you watched the record flooding recently? Just because your personal personal upper class bubble world hasn't ended yet, doesn't mean people's lives aren't being upended by climate change. How selfish of you. (and trains are infinitely better than airplanes for short (<300) mile trips. regular schedules, less expensive tickets, no baggage checking and getting lost, no endless and invasive security procedures? yes please.)
    - chasd00 3y ago
      > How selfish of you. Heh one person berating the op for not being optimistic enough and another berating them for not being doom/gloom enough. What a perfect example of social media “engagement”.
jasonlotito 3y ago
Rain jackets. Outer wear solving this problem has been around for a long, long time.
majormajor 3y ago
About 11 years ago I road some rush hour subways in China for a couple weeks while working in an office out there for a project. It was clean, people were quiet, all the sort of "crime" or "etiquette" concerns seemed addressed from my POV. It was still terrible because it was crowded as hell and we were packed in and standing up for 20-40 minutes. From talking to locals, people's commute time tolerance still stretched out and with cost of living and demand and all that, it was no "just take a jaunty 5 minute walk to work" paradise compared to the US. Maybe that 40 min standing is better for my long-term posture and joint health than sitting in a car? But it would still be a really really really hard sell.
- coderenegade 3y ago
  Yeah, this. I've done the Asian subway commute thing, and it's pretty crap. Tolerable, but only because using a car in those places is mostly untenable. It's even worse in western countries, because we don't have the commitment to rock-solid subway schedules that places like Japan and Korea do. Here we get poorly planned maintenance works, and commute times that can balloon out by hours because you're taking replacement buses. That's before we get into factors like assaults and harassment. I will never use public transport for commuting in my home country again. I got a car at the onset of COVID, and I'm not going back. As for the suggestion of using bikes, well... I grew up the monsoon zone. Good luck convincing people that a bike will fit their needs for the 5 months of the year when it's raining. People honestly forget what a miracle cars are. They're not perfect, but they're reliable, they get the job done, and there's a car that can meet just about anybody's needs. Even if you made an e-bike with some kind of weather protection, I'd be willing to bet that at some point, you just end up with a downsized car. Bikes just aren't the universal workhorses that cars are.
evandale 3y ago
> Also, not sure if you've used public transportation recently, but man, it SUCKS. Far less time efficient than a car, often crowded during the times you want to use it, and ZERO enforcement of proper etiquette or rules or regulations as far as riders are concerned. I've been using public transportation for 13 years and it's better than its ever been in terms of speed, reliability, and the crowds. Where have you experienced public transportation that is worse off today than it was in the past?
- fragmede 3y ago
  Have your tried driving? everyday, in stop and go traffic, bumper to bumper, with assholes waving in and out, impatiently, or sitting there for literal hours on a highway with turns but no distraction besides the podcast about some inane bullshittery? rather be sitting uninterrupted on public transportation, with an app or timer to warn, and then tell me when to get off, than sit in a car as a driver, having to pay half attention. it's enough to drive someone to drink. not that I would while driving, the repercussions are too steep. Oh no, I sit there and play with my phone on the bus and ignore people. Guess what I'm going to go home to do from my couch. the same except except be lonely while doing it.
  - evandale 3y ago
    Wow that sounds fun! I think I might try it next time I need to go somewhere. You have no idea how long I've been sitting on public transit wishing that _I_ was the person controlling the bus in stop and go traffic and having to put my 100% undivided attention on the road in front of me. I stare at the bus driver, and I bet he can feel my daggers piercing his back, my disdain for him that I'm forced to sit here on my phone reading people's stupid opinions on HN and Reddit and pointlessly arguing with them. Trying to change the mind of an idiot who doesn't even want to change their mind. I had no idea you could go out and buy those things people drive around everywhere. I thought you got them on your tax return if the government owes you > $20k, so thanks for the TIL.
  - jtriangle 3y ago
    I drive every day, and I've made it a point to pick places to live that are near-ish to where I work. Current commute is right around 15 minutes, but, I've lived places an hour from work, commuting every day. It wasn't the best, mainly from a time-optimization standpoint, got in the way of socialization, but, I listened to a ton of audiobooks and podcasts, so, wasn't exactly suffering in any way. Personally, I don't spend that much time "plugged in" to my phone these days. I don't have social media (HN is as close as it gets), and I keep most of my e-socializing to group messages between various friend groups on signal. So an hour on a train/bus/etc would likely be too much downtime for me. I do have an uncle who lives in Chicago, at the end of the line, train wise, so, it's over an hour to get into the city. He just catches the train and goes to sleep, because he's riding the whole thing to the end, sets an alarm, earbuds in, +1hour nap. Nice side benefit, but, truth is, he'd drive if he could, but the way chicago is laid out, he'd be walking a half mile from parking, and it's only like a 2 block walk from the end of the line to get to his work, so, makes alot of sense for him. For most, makes zero sense. Understand that, time is the only truly non-renewable resource. Everything else can be replaced, somehow, someway, but time is irreplaceable. Ultimately, if you're going to have universally viable public transport, it needs to be clean, safe, comfortable, and at least as fast as owning a car. So far, after decades of advancement, it's still none of those things for most people.
tomjakubowski 3y ago
Bicycle commuting in the rain would be no big deal except for all the 4000lb vehicles you have to share the road with. You can put rain gear on. Braking and steering are hardly affected. You can't go fast enough for hydroplaning to happen. Your visibility is impaired, but visibility on a bike saddle is already infinitely less obstructed compared to a driver's seat. You don't even need windshield wipers!

nerdbert 3y ago

> Cool, you have an affordable, tenuously waterproofed, chinese mass produced e-bike, it's your only available mode of transportation, you need to go into the office for a meeting, and it's raining. Welcome to hell. It's raining half the time here in the Netherlands. You can stand under a convenient overhang in the banking district of Amsterdam at 8am and watch the bankers pour into the underground bike parking lots. They use cheap and readily available outerwear that covers their clothes - including shoes - and keeps them dry. Suits, skirts, high heels, whatever.

sitkack 3y ago
No! It is impossible, simple untrue and cars are the only solution. /s If you come up with more evidence, I’ll move the straw goal post.
themaninthedark 3y ago
And thus contributing to the PSAF/forever chemical problem.

renewiltord 3y ago

It's not that hard to do. I ride in the rain and fog here in SF (the city under discussion), but you need dry pants. The real thing is that this is not an AV vs. ebike thing. Almost all people who ride bikes/ebikes here are pro-AV. It's mostly people not from SF and people who don't ride who are anti-AV. AVs are so much safer and predictable than human drivers.

fnimick 3y ago
I'd be cautious, considering Teslas in "self driving" have a nasty habit of running over single track vehicles (motorcycles and bicycles) because their systems don't recognize that anything narrower than a car exists. https://www.carscoops.com/2022/10/motorcycle-advocates-warn-of-tesla-autopilot-after-latest-fatal-crash-with-biker/ https://www.carscoops.com/2022/10/motorcycle-advocates-warn-...

_whiteCaps_ 3y ago

Something like the West Coast Express train in Vancouver is what you want - tables, washrooms, AC plugs for charging your stuff, etc. It's a great way to commute.

coryrc 3y ago

I agree with you on public transportation. But pre-pandemic I e-biked to the office rain or cloudy in Seattle 4 days a week. Albeit Seattle rains aren't usually heavy.

sfpotter 3y ago

The problem here is your attitude: it sucks. I’d elaborate on this, but it’s enough to read your post. Instead of baselessly concluding that everything you dislike and feel inconvenienced by will suck forever, have you considered feeling hope and optimism instead?

briandear 3y ago
Hope and optimism from the climate alarmist crowd? We’ve been told since Al Gore that the world should have already ended. That people want to take us back to the 1800s in transport tech isn’t very optimistic to me. People would rather have a train than airplanes. People would rather ride a bike in crappy weather than a comfortable car. People would rather we set our thermostats to 78 degrees than enjoy whatever temperatures we want in our house. There are people exciting about eating bugs because apparently cows are going to make the planet explode. Not much hope and optimism these days when the sky is perpetually falling.
- fnimick 3y ago
  That's rich considering we just set a global record for highest average temperature ever recorded. Have you watched the record flooding recently? Just because your personal personal upper class bubble world hasn't ended yet, doesn't mean people's lives aren't being upended by climate change. How selfish of you. (and trains are infinitely better than airplanes for short (<300) mile trips. regular schedules, less expensive tickets, no baggage checking and getting lost, no endless and invasive security procedures? yes please.)
  - chasd00 3y ago
    > How selfish of you. Heh one person berating the op for not being optimistic enough and another berating them for not being doom/gloom enough. What a perfect example of social media “engagement”.

jasonlotito 3y ago

Rain jackets. Outer wear solving this problem has been around for a long, long time.

majormajor 3y ago

About 11 years ago I road some rush hour subways in China for a couple weeks while working in an office out there for a project. It was clean, people were quiet, all the sort of "crime" or "etiquette" concerns seemed addressed from my POV. It was still terrible because it was crowded as hell and we were packed in and standing up for 20-40 minutes. From talking to locals, people's commute time tolerance still stretched out and with cost of living and demand and all that, it was no "just take a jaunty 5 minute walk to work" paradise compared to the US. Maybe that 40 min standing is better for my long-term posture and joint health than sitting in a car? But it would still be a really really really hard sell.

coderenegade 3y ago
Yeah, this. I've done the Asian subway commute thing, and it's pretty crap. Tolerable, but only because using a car in those places is mostly untenable. It's even worse in western countries, because we don't have the commitment to rock-solid subway schedules that places like Japan and Korea do. Here we get poorly planned maintenance works, and commute times that can balloon out by hours because you're taking replacement buses. That's before we get into factors like assaults and harassment. I will never use public transport for commuting in my home country again. I got a car at the onset of COVID, and I'm not going back. As for the suggestion of using bikes, well... I grew up the monsoon zone. Good luck convincing people that a bike will fit their needs for the 5 months of the year when it's raining. People honestly forget what a miracle cars are. They're not perfect, but they're reliable, they get the job done, and there's a car that can meet just about anybody's needs. Even if you made an e-bike with some kind of weather protection, I'd be willing to bet that at some point, you just end up with a downsized car. Bikes just aren't the universal workhorses that cars are.

evandale 3y ago

> Also, not sure if you've used public transportation recently, but man, it SUCKS. Far less time efficient than a car, often crowded during the times you want to use it, and ZERO enforcement of proper etiquette or rules or regulations as far as riders are concerned. I've been using public transportation for 13 years and it's better than its ever been in terms of speed, reliability, and the crowds. Where have you experienced public transportation that is worse off today than it was in the past?

fragmede 3y ago
Have your tried driving? everyday, in stop and go traffic, bumper to bumper, with assholes waving in and out, impatiently, or sitting there for literal hours on a highway with turns but no distraction besides the podcast about some inane bullshittery? rather be sitting uninterrupted on public transportation, with an app or timer to warn, and then tell me when to get off, than sit in a car as a driver, having to pay half attention. it's enough to drive someone to drink. not that I would while driving, the repercussions are too steep. Oh no, I sit there and play with my phone on the bus and ignore people. Guess what I'm going to go home to do from my couch. the same except except be lonely while doing it.
- evandale 3y ago
  Wow that sounds fun! I think I might try it next time I need to go somewhere. You have no idea how long I've been sitting on public transit wishing that _I_ was the person controlling the bus in stop and go traffic and having to put my 100% undivided attention on the road in front of me. I stare at the bus driver, and I bet he can feel my daggers piercing his back, my disdain for him that I'm forced to sit here on my phone reading people's stupid opinions on HN and Reddit and pointlessly arguing with them. Trying to change the mind of an idiot who doesn't even want to change their mind. I had no idea you could go out and buy those things people drive around everywhere. I thought you got them on your tax return if the government owes you > $20k, so thanks for the TIL.
- jtriangle 3y ago
  I drive every day, and I've made it a point to pick places to live that are near-ish to where I work. Current commute is right around 15 minutes, but, I've lived places an hour from work, commuting every day. It wasn't the best, mainly from a time-optimization standpoint, got in the way of socialization, but, I listened to a ton of audiobooks and podcasts, so, wasn't exactly suffering in any way. Personally, I don't spend that much time "plugged in" to my phone these days. I don't have social media (HN is as close as it gets), and I keep most of my e-socializing to group messages between various friend groups on signal. So an hour on a train/bus/etc would likely be too much downtime for me. I do have an uncle who lives in Chicago, at the end of the line, train wise, so, it's over an hour to get into the city. He just catches the train and goes to sleep, because he's riding the whole thing to the end, sets an alarm, earbuds in, +1hour nap. Nice side benefit, but, truth is, he'd drive if he could, but the way chicago is laid out, he'd be walking a half mile from parking, and it's only like a 2 block walk from the end of the line to get to his work, so, makes alot of sense for him. For most, makes zero sense. Understand that, time is the only truly non-renewable resource. Everything else can be replaced, somehow, someway, but time is irreplaceable. Ultimately, if you're going to have universally viable public transport, it needs to be clean, safe, comfortable, and at least as fast as owning a car. So far, after decades of advancement, it's still none of those things for most people.

tomjakubowski 3y ago

Bicycle commuting in the rain would be no big deal except for all the 4000lb vehicles you have to share the road with. You can put rain gear on. Braking and steering are hardly affected. You can't go fast enough for hydroplaning to happen. Your visibility is impaired, but visibility on a bike saddle is already infinitely less obstructed compared to a driver's seat. You don't even need windshield wipers!