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New Trans-Atlantic Data Privacy Framework Largely a Copy of “Privacy Shield”

63 points by sarnowski 3y ago

tmikaeld 3y ago
It still doesn't help EU businesses navigate the clash between the US Cloud Act and the EU's GDPR, and seems more focused on appeasing US interests than safeguarding European rights.
- creshal 3y ago
  Yeah, looks like this will be valid for just as long as it takes Schrems to drag it through the courts. Again.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
jjgreen 3y ago
It seems there is no cost to those who repeatedly implement these illegal frameworks. A modest proposal: Jail-time of twice their duration (from implementation to judicial strikedown) for the EU negotiators involved.
abwizz 3y ago
fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me. fool me thrice, ??? profit
TekMol 3y ago
Here in Europe, we are in a paradoxical downward spiral. And unfortunately, I see no end to it. Understandably, we don't want our citizens to be spied upon by the US and have all that data stored in the US. Unfortunately, our "solution" is to create regulations which cause so much disadvantage to European tech companies, that we will see our citizens use even more US built tools in the future. We already live in a mostly US-built internet. Throwing more and more regulations at it only cements this situation. It seems there is nothing to get out of this rut. Looks like we will keep feeding the patient a treatment that worsens their condition.
- autoexec 3y ago
  > Unfortunately, our "solution" is to create regulations which cause so much disadvantage to European tech companies, that we will see our citizens use even more US built tools in the future. What is the "disadvantage" to European tech companies who don't want to spy on anyone? What advantage do Europeans who don't want to be spied on gain by using US services that will spy on them instead of using European ones that couldn't spy on them as easily/completely due to pro-privacy laws?
  - pgeorgi 3y ago
    The US business model has established "free" for services on the net, paid for by others using behavioral data for advertising. That has its advantages (access for all, no matter the socioeconomic background!) but no "paid for by others" scheme that is less intrusive has popped up yet and "free" is very hard to compete with. There's also less of a culture of "pour billions into tons of startups and see what sticks", which is a market distortion of its own. That aspect is drying up in the US though, thankfully.
    - kergonath 3y ago
      > paid for by others using behavioral data for advertising And some generous VC funding sloshing around in the Silicon Valley, and the associated global brain drain. This is proving to get harder to reproduce elsewhere.
    - autoexec 3y ago
      Europeans can use ad supported models without resorting to surveillance capitalism. They can even use targeted advertising without it. You don't need to have people's entire internet history, a full list of their past sexual partners, and their GPS coordinates to push ads relevant to a person's interests. The spying is entirely unnecessary, and there's a history going back long before the internet even existed proving that ads without the spying are effective. Privacy laws don't prevent Europeans from offering ad based services on the net, and being limited to providing more privacy friendly services will make those services more attractive to consumers outside of the EU as well. There's a lot of opportunity created when you can't simply fall back on the most exploitative practices the US allows for.
FinnKuhn 3y ago
So the current approach is just to implement the same law after it was deemed illegal with minor changes as it takes some time until the courts decide it is illegal? What a joke.
- kergonath 3y ago
  Unfortunately, yes. The Commission is playing dumb and hoping we’ll get tired before they do.
autoexec 3y ago
I wish that all of our governments would just be honest and admit that they are involved in massive amounts of illegal data collection, that they really love spying on their own citizens because it gives them a lot more power, and that they will never do anything to protect the people if it might mean they have to give up even a little of that power. Any discussion about what can be done to help protect people's privacy and safety would go a lot smoother and progress faster if they'd skip all the theater and stopped pretending to take meaningful action. It's a waste of everyone's time.
Havoc 3y ago
>the US still takes the view that only US persons are worthy of constitutional rights. Lovely. That makes me feel all warm & fuzzy about data privacy... /s

63 points by sarnowski 3y ago

It still doesn't help EU businesses navigate the clash between the US Cloud Act and the EU's GDPR, and seems more focused on appeasing US interests than safeguarding European rights.

creshal 3y ago
Yeah, looks like this will be valid for just as long as it takes Schrems to drag it through the courts. Again.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

jjgreen 3y ago

It seems there is no cost to those who repeatedly implement these illegal frameworks. A modest proposal: Jail-time of twice their duration (from implementation to judicial strikedown) for the EU negotiators involved.

abwizz 3y ago

fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me. fool me thrice, ??? profit

TekMol 3y ago

Here in Europe, we are in a paradoxical downward spiral. And unfortunately, I see no end to it. Understandably, we don't want our citizens to be spied upon by the US and have all that data stored in the US. Unfortunately, our "solution" is to create regulations which cause so much disadvantage to European tech companies, that we will see our citizens use even more US built tools in the future. We already live in a mostly US-built internet. Throwing more and more regulations at it only cements this situation. It seems there is nothing to get out of this rut. Looks like we will keep feeding the patient a treatment that worsens their condition.

autoexec 3y ago
> Unfortunately, our "solution" is to create regulations which cause so much disadvantage to European tech companies, that we will see our citizens use even more US built tools in the future. What is the "disadvantage" to European tech companies who don't want to spy on anyone? What advantage do Europeans who don't want to be spied on gain by using US services that will spy on them instead of using European ones that couldn't spy on them as easily/completely due to pro-privacy laws?
- pgeorgi 3y ago
  The US business model has established "free" for services on the net, paid for by others using behavioral data for advertising. That has its advantages (access for all, no matter the socioeconomic background!) but no "paid for by others" scheme that is less intrusive has popped up yet and "free" is very hard to compete with. There's also less of a culture of "pour billions into tons of startups and see what sticks", which is a market distortion of its own. That aspect is drying up in the US though, thankfully.
  - kergonath 3y ago
    > paid for by others using behavioral data for advertising And some generous VC funding sloshing around in the Silicon Valley, and the associated global brain drain. This is proving to get harder to reproduce elsewhere.
  - autoexec 3y ago
    Europeans can use ad supported models without resorting to surveillance capitalism. They can even use targeted advertising without it. You don't need to have people's entire internet history, a full list of their past sexual partners, and their GPS coordinates to push ads relevant to a person's interests. The spying is entirely unnecessary, and there's a history going back long before the internet even existed proving that ads without the spying are effective. Privacy laws don't prevent Europeans from offering ad based services on the net, and being limited to providing more privacy friendly services will make those services more attractive to consumers outside of the EU as well. There's a lot of opportunity created when you can't simply fall back on the most exploitative practices the US allows for.

FinnKuhn 3y ago

So the current approach is just to implement the same law after it was deemed illegal with minor changes as it takes some time until the courts decide it is illegal? What a joke.

kergonath 3y ago
Unfortunately, yes. The Commission is playing dumb and hoping we’ll get tired before they do.

autoexec 3y ago

I wish that all of our governments would just be honest and admit that they are involved in massive amounts of illegal data collection, that they really love spying on their own citizens because it gives them a lot more power, and that they will never do anything to protect the people if it might mean they have to give up even a little of that power. Any discussion about what can be done to help protect people's privacy and safety would go a lot smoother and progress faster if they'd skip all the theater and stopped pretending to take meaningful action. It's a waste of everyone's time.

Havoc 3y ago

>the US still takes the view that only US persons are worthy of constitutional rights. Lovely. That makes me feel all warm & fuzzy about data privacy... /s