9 ms·

EVs from Toyota, Ford, Audi and Genesis are sitting on dealer lots

23 points by ourmandave 3y ago

megamike 3y ago
in my area to few spots to re-charge
- Tagbert 3y ago
  Yet there are likely many people in your area with garages where they can charge. Unless you live in a very remote area, there are likley more fast charging stations that you may have noticed and the plan is to double those by 2025.
beanjuiceII 3y ago
The problem is why would I want to but an EV that's not a tesla? what would i buy a FORD?
- Tagbert 3y ago
  One valid reason is that it is not a Tesla. Not everyone wants the same thing.
- edmundsauto 3y ago
  Repair time, dealer network, fit and finish, not trusting Tesla or wanting to support Musk. Additionally, the ford lightning can be used as a home battery which afaik isn’t on the Tesla roadmap.
  - igrekel 3y ago
    In my experience over the last fours years, 1 and three are a thing of the past. I'd even say that the second is less of a problem as they added many service centers closeby. But I am not in the US. The two last ones are an increasing annoyance.
    - edmundsauto 3y ago
      The latest consumer reports suggests average level of repair ability in the 2023 Tesla line (https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla/model-3/2022/reliability/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla/model-3/2022/reli...), not as bad as in the past. However, I believe the company will reduce slack in the system in unhealthy ways as fits their corporate goals. More than other mfg. In this case, moving slowly is an advantage. I just trust Ford to be able to support 100 millions cars on the road more than Tesla. But thanks for checking my priors - I was still assuming it was 3+ month delivery time for eg bodywork. The home battery, however, is really important to me. Buy a ford lightning and you get something like 8 powerwalls, with a truck for free.
- atombender 3y ago
  Tesla is highly overrated, in my opinion. While they should be commended for being a pioneer, other brands have already eclipsed them. Personally, I vastly prefer the VW ID.3 (and the slightly larger ID.4). It doesn't have the sleek looks, of course, but in terms of feel, comfort, features, and so on, it's a much nicer car. It's probably a better car than a Tesla for most people. The U.S. market is struggling to offer enough lower-budget electric cars. Not every car needs to be a sleek $80k Tesla. In Europe, electric cars have now become normalized thanks to models covering the entire range of affordability. Plenty of "normal working people budget" cars — Renault Zoe, Opel Corsa-e, Skoda Enyaq, and so on, all great cars. The U.S. has the Bolt, Leaf, Niro, and then the cars quickly become expensive after that. (The Niro is a terrific car, though!)
  - frumper 3y ago
    >Not every car needs to be a sleek $80k Tesla. Tesla would agree with you, that's why the Model 3 starts at 40k and in the US is eligible for a $7500 credit. Bonus points if you're in a state like California where you can get additional credits.
    - beanjuiceII 3y ago
      or where I am and got one for 27k
- jfim 3y ago
  There are people who value having a wiper stalk, a button to defog the windshield, and an instrument cluster when driving.
  - dzhiurgis 3y ago
    Some even make it their personality trait
- Rebelgecko 3y ago
  Maybe you want a truck in 2023? Or something with V2L that can power your house for a week?
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
Very Bad headline, given this is the second paragraph: > The latest reports from Cox Automotive indicate that car buyers are much more interested in EVs now than in the past: 51 percent of buyers who participated in a recent Cox survey are considering buying a new or used EV, which is up from 38 percent in 2021. And Cox says that EV sales will break the 1 million mark for the first time in 2023, with sales reportedly accounting for about 6.5 percent of the entire auto market in the U.S. so far.
- somerandomqaguy 3y ago
  Eh, it's Jalopnik, they do a lot of misleading headlines. And at least with the Mach E; anecdotally they're kind of correct in that there's a bunch of Mach E's sitting on the lot. Thing that they're either fully optioned Premium variants or GT variants, so you're talking $82,000 to $90,000 Canadian dollars even before you starting thinking about taxes and other costs. The $55,000 to $70,000 price ranged EV's seem to be selling well enough for the time being.
  - dangus 3y ago
    That was my take about this article: bad EV deals are what are sitting on car lots. EVs are just barely mature enough to have mass appeal, and the worst models don’t have almost any appeal if you ask me. If you have $80-90k you should be buying a BMW iX, not a Ford Mach-E or a Genesis G80. The BZ4X is also not competitive especially without available tax credits. You can snag yourself a Model Y long range for less money. Audi e-tron models have weak range BMW or Mercedes EQ* instead. Volvo C40 should be avoided until the new rear wheel drive revision comes out. The Hummer EV is a completely insane show car and limited run tech demo. The list of “obsolete” EVs goes on and on.
    - quantified 3y ago
      Some of really want the Hummer EV, just don't have the $$$ to splash for it. Knock an order of magnitude off the price...
  - WeylandYutani 3y ago
silisili 3y ago
I want electric, but I still have reservations. Range is a big one, and many times I mention it, people will say 'oh just wait for x, then batteries will last y.' Meaning it's probably evolving quickly. That in turn makes me want to wait, why would I spend more money than ICE on something that will be outdated soon? Which brings me to the second point: costs are still pretty heavy on most of these.
- db48x 3y ago
  How far do you drive every day? I knew an importer of fine foods that drove over 200 miles every day, but he was a bit of an outlier.
  - silisili 3y ago
    Very rarely, daily. But about once a month I'll drive 250ish miles to sight see or visit family. And once a year or so, cross country.
    - 26fingies 3y ago
      why not just rent a car instead?
      - gottorf 3y ago
        Not the GP, but many people prefer to make long trips in cars that they're used to and personalized to their liking. I've certainly been in rental cars whose seats have contorted my body uncomfortably, if nothing else only because I wasn't used to it.
      - nradov 3y ago
        Because most rental cars suck, and if you want an actual good one for a week or more they charge a fortune. And sometimes when you show up at the rental car agency the specific model you reserved isn't even available.
        3y ago
chiefalchemist 3y ago
Gasoline remains relatively inexpensive. These vehicles are relatively more expensive. Furthermore, lease cycle aside, a car is something you replace, as necessary. Few are going to wake up and think, "I need a car payment. And I want it to be more than the one I recently paid-off." Finally, in terms of planning and production, it makes sense the supply of EVs is greater than that of gasoline-fueled. That is, as brands prepare for EV sales, they likely cut back on making traditional vehicles, which lowered that supply. That is, it's not simply sales per se.
- Amezarak 3y ago
  > These vehicles are relatively more expensive. Yeah, until this gets fixed, I'm not buying an EV. I ran the numbers and after 10 years of ownership and almost 200k miles, the cost of a brand-new ICE car + 10 years of gasoline + maintenance is still less than the cost of a Model 3. To be fair there are cheaper EVs than Teslas, but then you start looking at losing out seriously on things like range...and they're still more expensive than just buying another ICE car, just not as much more expensive. Plus, like many people, I live in a rural area and don't have a garage. Not sure what I'd do about home charging, and I don't want to think about it, to be honest. Going to be some $$$ involved, no doubt.
  - frumper 3y ago
    > To be fair there are cheaper EVs than Teslas There are also ICE cars more expensive than your unnamed brand-new ICE car. It's fair to say EVs aren't for everyone, but the average price of a new car is around where you can get a Model 3 or Y.
  - com2kid 3y ago
    > Yeah, until this gets fixed, I'm not buying an EV. I ran the numbers and after 10 years of ownership and almost 200k miles, the cost of a brand-new ICE car + 10 years of gasoline + maintenance is still less than the cost of a Model 3. My math is even worse, in 5 years I have driven maybe 30k, but I am also constantly annoyed that my 1.6L subcompact gas car gets less than 20 MPG driving up and down Seattle's hills at 20 MPH. A city electric car would be nice, but our road infrastructure just isn't built for them.
jghn 3y ago
Anecdata, but for me personally there is a 100% chance my next car will be an EV. Ok, 99% with a 1% chance that it's a PHEV. The issue is I don't foresee needing a new car for at least a few years. Probably more.
vsskanth 3y ago
Current EVs are really expensive and pretty much a luxury product. There's reasonable fear about finding charging stations if you don't have a Tesla. The plug seems to be converging to Tesla now. Needs one more iteration in battery tech so we can reach 450 miles EPA and under 40K USD. It's not that you're going to drive 450 miles but there needs to be enough cushion left for degradation, optimal charge cycles, winter, etc. so you can atleast go 300 miles without any issues for the entire life of the vehicle. Long term, EVs are definitely superior and simpler tech in terms of maintenance, but the current gen isn't fully there yet. Tesla is ahead right now in terms of product maturity and seems to have enough margins to be able to discount. I'm really excited to see what they offer with their next platform.
- jghn 3y ago
  > so you can atleast go 300 miles without any issues for the entire life of the vehicle. I see this line brought up in every single conversation. But I always wonder how many people have sat down and analyzed how often they actually drive XYZ miles in one go. I'm not saying that *no one* has this problem, but I would bet good money that the majority of folks who believe they do don't encounter this very often. For instance with myself I know that I would need to rent a car once every year or two given current battery ranges. But that's pretty much it.
  - vsskanth 3y ago
    I just drove NYC to CLT in a day. I encountered rest stops with Tesla chargers but not anything else. Great if you have a Tesla but would really suck otherwise. If you have a family, flying gets expensive real quick so you have to be able to drive 8-10 hours for vacation if needed maybe twice a year. Obviously none of this applies if you have a second gas car.
    - jghn 3y ago
      Sure. I even some people will needs this. What I was wondering out loud was how many people actually look at the number of overly long journeys they make and compare it to their perception of the number of overly long journeys they make.
LUmBULtERA 3y ago
I want a Prius Prime. With a 44-mile range on battery, the vast majority of my driving would be electric, plus there's zero range anxiety. BUT, I hate hate hate having to go to car dealerships and deal with their obnoxious shenanigans. Wish I could just buy it online for a fair price.
- gottorf 3y ago
  You can find barely-used Prius Primes on no-haggle used car dealers like Carmax or Carvana. But I guess that depends on your definition of a "fair price" -- no-haggle means you also never get a good deal, merely an OK deal at best.
  - LUmBULtERA 3y ago
    I just searched Carmax and Carvana for 2023 Prius Primes and zero showed up on either of them. EPA range on battery between the last model and the current one increased from 25 to 44 miles, so a substantial difference. Also, I don't think there's really much of a discount compared to new for many vehicles right now.
  - jerlam 3y ago
    44 miles EV range probably means they want the new 2023 Prius Prime, which is not readily available used. Previous generation only had 25 mile EV range.
- listenallyall 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - mdekkers 3y ago
    > Negotiating with car dealers is not difficult if you can simply act like an an adult and stand up for yourself just a little bit. Would it really be that hard to just give some advice without being condescending and insulting about it? Do you stop to think what kind of vibe you are putting into this community?
dvorak_typist 3y ago
Or perhaps between interest rates and working 4 jobs nobody can afford to give billionaires anymore of their future incomes?
JohnFen 3y ago
The headline is obviously nonsense. There are clearly lots of people in the US who want to buy EVs, as the article even indicates. I am one of the few who doesn't want an EV, though. Not because of being an EV specifically, but because there seems to be no EVs on the market that don't phone home.
damnesian 3y ago
Well, we just bought a 100% EV, and it wasn't even a Tesla. And we are Americans. In my neighborhood, I'd say we see about 20% EVs. I'm sure it's above the national average- it seems like all I see on highways are conventional crossovers, trucks, bigger trucks, "SUVs" that are so big they're basically small RVs. A smattering of these cars- and a few sedans- are hybrid. Very few EVs, except for, of course, Teslas- which are pretty hot in our area. It might be the fastest growing brand of vehicle in these parts. I can tell you what made us hesitate: lack of a usable charging station infrastructure. We will basically use our EV for in-town and nearby area use. No serious highway trips. Battery replacement cost is real concern. Quick charging would make longer trips feasible- if we could find more charging stations on major highways, a charge of half an hour or so is not bad- but frequent quick charging will prematurely wear out our battery which currently would cost $6000 to replace. So we won't be quick charging it. That leaves trickle charging so every 70 mi or so we'd have to stay at a hotel while the car charged fully. The final concern for us was EVs are still dirtier to produce than combustion machines. We hope this balance will change as adoption increases, but it's a little discouraging that the owner of the fastest growing EV brand is a right-of-center ideologue which makes me doubt he'll be converting his plants to solar and wind energy anytime soon.
- db48x 3y ago
  Surely fast charging your car when you go on vacation a few times a year won’t put a big dent in the battery life :)
- Kirby64 3y ago
  You're valuing the very wrong thing if you think it makes economic sense to pay for a hotel and trick charge to attempt to save you BEVs battery. The cost of the hotel and your time will easily, easily, easily, exceed the marginal cost/damage to the battery by rapid charging them. Also, take a look at any of the economic impact of production. Gas vehicles are worse from an environmental perspective after only a few years. If you destroy an EV as soon as its made then sure, it'll be worse, but otherwise it's a win.
slotrans 3y ago
Most of these EVs are just bad cars. I went to the big local auto show in the spring and sat in a ton of cars, including a bunch of the new EVs. They all have Tesla envy. Giant touchscreens. No buttons. Interior and exterior design that's there to shout at you that you drive an EV rather than be useful. Hard pass.
- abracadaniel 3y ago
  Many are just not competitive in the market as well. They tend to be priced higher than Tesla with less range and performance. No one's going to outsell Tesla on EVs until they bring prices down and capabilities up. I feel like many manufacturers are still just producing a token handful of EVs for tax purposes or to prove out their logistics. No one has given it a serious push yet.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
RagnarD 3y ago
The headline is disingenuous. Maybe nobody wants to buy second-tier EVs when they can buy a Tesla. I see Teslas all the time around here.
jameslars 3y ago
As someone who has recently went through an EV shopping and purchase exercise, the dealership model has SO MUCH room for improvement. Every dealer was immediately talking to me about financing options and specials before I even sat in any single car, let alone test drove one. Of the 5 makes I test drove: only 1 was willing to have the car configured with an actual single-pedal-driving experience (Volvo). Most were worried that my unfamiliarity with single-pedal-driving would lead to a bad test drive experience. only 1 was willing to talk to me in clear terms about how route planning and mapping would work with the charging network. 2 different dealers told me I would have to download "an app off the appstore" for route planning & charging. every dealer had some sort of dealership mark-up on the EV. Usually in the range of $1K - $3K. The Audi dealer was kind enough not to lie to us about the purpose, it was a dealership markup that he thought would be negotiable if it meant losing the sale. Our Tesla test-drive experience - we showed up for our appointment, got some brief instructions / Q&A, and were handed a set of keys to tool around with for an hour. Another Q&A after, and no pressure to do anything else. We left without any purchase commitment, and made that separately online on our own time after more deliberation about the decision. My partner and I went into this process sure we would pick a non-Tesla, it was the last car type we test drove after weeks of trying others. Every dealership turned us off in some way. That combined with the raw numbers (price of car, range, cargo space, towing capacity) it's no contest that Tesla has both the best EV and the best buying experience for an EV.
chiefalchemist 3y ago
The (US) government strives to keep the price of gasoline artificially low (as compared to other comparable countries), and then at the same time offers tax incentives to encourage the adoption of EVs. Certainly, there's got to be a relationship between the price at the pump and how attractive EV become to car buyers. Instead, we get a solution(s) that's good for politicians but not so good for citizens?
foxyv 3y ago
Weird, it's like no one wants to pre-order a massive depreciating asset for a 20% inflated price at 10% interest and then, when it finally shows up on the dealer 4 months later, get scammed for an additional $5-10k to pay for REQUIRED ceramic coatings and other stuff you never asked for. Then, when you refuse they take the pre-ordered car and sell it to a used car dealer that will then sell it for 30% above MSRP. For some reason, dealers and automakers are making the purchasing process for electric cars 10x harder than it needs to be.

23 points by ourmandave 3y ago

megamike 3y ago

in my area to few spots to re-charge

Tagbert 3y ago
Yet there are likely many people in your area with garages where they can charge. Unless you live in a very remote area, there are likley more fast charging stations that you may have noticed and the plan is to double those by 2025.

beanjuiceII 3y ago

The problem is why would I want to but an EV that's not a tesla? what would i buy a FORD?

Tagbert 3y ago
One valid reason is that it is not a Tesla. Not everyone wants the same thing.
edmundsauto 3y ago
Repair time, dealer network, fit and finish, not trusting Tesla or wanting to support Musk. Additionally, the ford lightning can be used as a home battery which afaik isn’t on the Tesla roadmap.
- igrekel 3y ago
  In my experience over the last fours years, 1 and three are a thing of the past. I'd even say that the second is less of a problem as they added many service centers closeby. But I am not in the US. The two last ones are an increasing annoyance.
  - edmundsauto 3y ago
    The latest consumer reports suggests average level of repair ability in the 2023 Tesla line (https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla/model-3/2022/reliability/ https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla/model-3/2022/reli...), not as bad as in the past. However, I believe the company will reduce slack in the system in unhealthy ways as fits their corporate goals. More than other mfg. In this case, moving slowly is an advantage. I just trust Ford to be able to support 100 millions cars on the road more than Tesla. But thanks for checking my priors - I was still assuming it was 3+ month delivery time for eg bodywork. The home battery, however, is really important to me. Buy a ford lightning and you get something like 8 powerwalls, with a truck for free.
atombender 3y ago
Tesla is highly overrated, in my opinion. While they should be commended for being a pioneer, other brands have already eclipsed them. Personally, I vastly prefer the VW ID.3 (and the slightly larger ID.4). It doesn't have the sleek looks, of course, but in terms of feel, comfort, features, and so on, it's a much nicer car. It's probably a better car than a Tesla for most people. The U.S. market is struggling to offer enough lower-budget electric cars. Not every car needs to be a sleek $80k Tesla. In Europe, electric cars have now become normalized thanks to models covering the entire range of affordability. Plenty of "normal working people budget" cars — Renault Zoe, Opel Corsa-e, Skoda Enyaq, and so on, all great cars. The U.S. has the Bolt, Leaf, Niro, and then the cars quickly become expensive after that. (The Niro is a terrific car, though!)
- frumper 3y ago
  >Not every car needs to be a sleek $80k Tesla. Tesla would agree with you, that's why the Model 3 starts at 40k and in the US is eligible for a $7500 credit. Bonus points if you're in a state like California where you can get additional credits.
  - beanjuiceII 3y ago
    or where I am and got one for 27k
jfim 3y ago
There are people who value having a wiper stalk, a button to defog the windshield, and an instrument cluster when driving.
- dzhiurgis 3y ago
  Some even make it their personality trait
Rebelgecko 3y ago
Maybe you want a truck in 2023? Or something with V2L that can power your house for a week?

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

Very Bad headline, given this is the second paragraph: > The latest reports from Cox Automotive indicate that car buyers are much more interested in EVs now than in the past: 51 percent of buyers who participated in a recent Cox survey are considering buying a new or used EV, which is up from 38 percent in 2021. And Cox says that EV sales will break the 1 million mark for the first time in 2023, with sales reportedly accounting for about 6.5 percent of the entire auto market in the U.S. so far.

somerandomqaguy 3y ago
Eh, it's Jalopnik, they do a lot of misleading headlines. And at least with the Mach E; anecdotally they're kind of correct in that there's a bunch of Mach E's sitting on the lot. Thing that they're either fully optioned Premium variants or GT variants, so you're talking $82,000 to $90,000 Canadian dollars even before you starting thinking about taxes and other costs. The $55,000 to $70,000 price ranged EV's seem to be selling well enough for the time being.
- dangus 3y ago
  That was my take about this article: bad EV deals are what are sitting on car lots. EVs are just barely mature enough to have mass appeal, and the worst models don’t have almost any appeal if you ask me. If you have $80-90k you should be buying a BMW iX, not a Ford Mach-E or a Genesis G80. The BZ4X is also not competitive especially without available tax credits. You can snag yourself a Model Y long range for less money. Audi e-tron models have weak range BMW or Mercedes EQ* instead. Volvo C40 should be avoided until the new rear wheel drive revision comes out. The Hummer EV is a completely insane show car and limited run tech demo. The list of “obsolete” EVs goes on and on.
  - quantified 3y ago
    Some of really want the Hummer EV, just don't have the $$$ to splash for it. Knock an order of magnitude off the price...
- WeylandYutani 3y ago

silisili 3y ago

I want electric, but I still have reservations. Range is a big one, and many times I mention it, people will say 'oh just wait for x, then batteries will last y.' Meaning it's probably evolving quickly. That in turn makes me want to wait, why would I spend more money than ICE on something that will be outdated soon? Which brings me to the second point: costs are still pretty heavy on most of these.

db48x 3y ago
How far do you drive every day? I knew an importer of fine foods that drove over 200 miles every day, but he was a bit of an outlier.
- silisili 3y ago
  Very rarely, daily. But about once a month I'll drive 250ish miles to sight see or visit family. And once a year or so, cross country.
  - 26fingies 3y ago
    why not just rent a car instead?
    - gottorf 3y ago
      Not the GP, but many people prefer to make long trips in cars that they're used to and personalized to their liking. I've certainly been in rental cars whose seats have contorted my body uncomfortably, if nothing else only because I wasn't used to it.
    - nradov 3y ago
      Because most rental cars suck, and if you want an actual good one for a week or more they charge a fortune. And sometimes when you show up at the rental car agency the specific model you reserved isn't even available.
      - 3y ago

chiefalchemist 3y ago

Gasoline remains relatively inexpensive. These vehicles are relatively more expensive. Furthermore, lease cycle aside, a car is something you replace, as necessary. Few are going to wake up and think, "I need a car payment. And I want it to be more than the one I recently paid-off." Finally, in terms of planning and production, it makes sense the supply of EVs is greater than that of gasoline-fueled. That is, as brands prepare for EV sales, they likely cut back on making traditional vehicles, which lowered that supply. That is, it's not simply sales per se.

Amezarak 3y ago
> These vehicles are relatively more expensive. Yeah, until this gets fixed, I'm not buying an EV. I ran the numbers and after 10 years of ownership and almost 200k miles, the cost of a brand-new ICE car + 10 years of gasoline + maintenance is still less than the cost of a Model 3. To be fair there are cheaper EVs than Teslas, but then you start looking at losing out seriously on things like range...and they're still more expensive than just buying another ICE car, just not as much more expensive. Plus, like many people, I live in a rural area and don't have a garage. Not sure what I'd do about home charging, and I don't want to think about it, to be honest. Going to be some $$$ involved, no doubt.
- frumper 3y ago
  > To be fair there are cheaper EVs than Teslas There are also ICE cars more expensive than your unnamed brand-new ICE car. It's fair to say EVs aren't for everyone, but the average price of a new car is around where you can get a Model 3 or Y.
- com2kid 3y ago
  > Yeah, until this gets fixed, I'm not buying an EV. I ran the numbers and after 10 years of ownership and almost 200k miles, the cost of a brand-new ICE car + 10 years of gasoline + maintenance is still less than the cost of a Model 3. My math is even worse, in 5 years I have driven maybe 30k, but I am also constantly annoyed that my 1.6L subcompact gas car gets less than 20 MPG driving up and down Seattle's hills at 20 MPH. A city electric car would be nice, but our road infrastructure just isn't built for them.

jghn 3y ago

Anecdata, but for me personally there is a 100% chance my next car will be an EV. Ok, 99% with a 1% chance that it's a PHEV. The issue is I don't foresee needing a new car for at least a few years. Probably more.

vsskanth 3y ago

Current EVs are really expensive and pretty much a luxury product. There's reasonable fear about finding charging stations if you don't have a Tesla. The plug seems to be converging to Tesla now. Needs one more iteration in battery tech so we can reach 450 miles EPA and under 40K USD. It's not that you're going to drive 450 miles but there needs to be enough cushion left for degradation, optimal charge cycles, winter, etc. so you can atleast go 300 miles without any issues for the entire life of the vehicle. Long term, EVs are definitely superior and simpler tech in terms of maintenance, but the current gen isn't fully there yet. Tesla is ahead right now in terms of product maturity and seems to have enough margins to be able to discount. I'm really excited to see what they offer with their next platform.

jghn 3y ago
> so you can atleast go 300 miles without any issues for the entire life of the vehicle. I see this line brought up in every single conversation. But I always wonder how many people have sat down and analyzed how often they actually drive XYZ miles in one go. I'm not saying that *no one* has this problem, but I would bet good money that the majority of folks who believe they do don't encounter this very often. For instance with myself I know that I would need to rent a car once every year or two given current battery ranges. But that's pretty much it.
- vsskanth 3y ago
  I just drove NYC to CLT in a day. I encountered rest stops with Tesla chargers but not anything else. Great if you have a Tesla but would really suck otherwise. If you have a family, flying gets expensive real quick so you have to be able to drive 8-10 hours for vacation if needed maybe twice a year. Obviously none of this applies if you have a second gas car.
  - jghn 3y ago
    Sure. I even some people will needs this. What I was wondering out loud was how many people actually look at the number of overly long journeys they make and compare it to their perception of the number of overly long journeys they make.

LUmBULtERA 3y ago

I want a Prius Prime. With a 44-mile range on battery, the vast majority of my driving would be electric, plus there's zero range anxiety. BUT, I hate hate hate having to go to car dealerships and deal with their obnoxious shenanigans. Wish I could just buy it online for a fair price.

gottorf 3y ago
You can find barely-used Prius Primes on no-haggle used car dealers like Carmax or Carvana. But I guess that depends on your definition of a "fair price" -- no-haggle means you also never get a good deal, merely an OK deal at best.
- LUmBULtERA 3y ago
  I just searched Carmax and Carvana for 2023 Prius Primes and zero showed up on either of them. EPA range on battery between the last model and the current one increased from 25 to 44 miles, so a substantial difference. Also, I don't think there's really much of a discount compared to new for many vehicles right now.
- jerlam 3y ago
  44 miles EV range probably means they want the new 2023 Prius Prime, which is not readily available used. Previous generation only had 25 mile EV range.
listenallyall 3y ago
[flagged]
- mdekkers 3y ago
  > Negotiating with car dealers is not difficult if you can simply act like an an adult and stand up for yourself just a little bit. Would it really be that hard to just give some advice without being condescending and insulting about it? Do you stop to think what kind of vibe you are putting into this community?

dvorak_typist 3y ago

Or perhaps between interest rates and working 4 jobs nobody can afford to give billionaires anymore of their future incomes?

JohnFen 3y ago

The headline is obviously nonsense. There are clearly lots of people in the US who want to buy EVs, as the article even indicates. I am one of the few who doesn't want an EV, though. Not because of being an EV specifically, but because there seems to be no EVs on the market that don't phone home.

damnesian 3y ago

Well, we just bought a 100% EV, and it wasn't even a Tesla. And we are Americans. In my neighborhood, I'd say we see about 20% EVs. I'm sure it's above the national average- it seems like all I see on highways are conventional crossovers, trucks, bigger trucks, "SUVs" that are so big they're basically small RVs. A smattering of these cars- and a few sedans- are hybrid. Very few EVs, except for, of course, Teslas- which are pretty hot in our area. It might be the fastest growing brand of vehicle in these parts. I can tell you what made us hesitate: lack of a usable charging station infrastructure. We will basically use our EV for in-town and nearby area use. No serious highway trips. Battery replacement cost is real concern. Quick charging would make longer trips feasible- if we could find more charging stations on major highways, a charge of half an hour or so is not bad- but frequent quick charging will prematurely wear out our battery which currently would cost $6000 to replace. So we won't be quick charging it. That leaves trickle charging so every 70 mi or so we'd have to stay at a hotel while the car charged fully. The final concern for us was EVs are still dirtier to produce than combustion machines. We hope this balance will change as adoption increases, but it's a little discouraging that the owner of the fastest growing EV brand is a right-of-center ideologue which makes me doubt he'll be converting his plants to solar and wind energy anytime soon.

db48x 3y ago
Surely fast charging your car when you go on vacation a few times a year won’t put a big dent in the battery life :)
Kirby64 3y ago
You're valuing the very wrong thing if you think it makes economic sense to pay for a hotel and trick charge to attempt to save you BEVs battery. The cost of the hotel and your time will easily, easily, easily, exceed the marginal cost/damage to the battery by rapid charging them. Also, take a look at any of the economic impact of production. Gas vehicles are worse from an environmental perspective after only a few years. If you destroy an EV as soon as its made then sure, it'll be worse, but otherwise it's a win.

slotrans 3y ago

Most of these EVs are just bad cars. I went to the big local auto show in the spring and sat in a ton of cars, including a bunch of the new EVs. They all have Tesla envy. Giant touchscreens. No buttons. Interior and exterior design that's there to shout at you that you drive an EV rather than be useful. Hard pass.

abracadaniel 3y ago
Many are just not competitive in the market as well. They tend to be priced higher than Tesla with less range and performance. No one's going to outsell Tesla on EVs until they bring prices down and capabilities up. I feel like many manufacturers are still just producing a token handful of EVs for tax purposes or to prove out their logistics. No one has given it a serious push yet.

deleted 3y ago

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RagnarD 3y ago

The headline is disingenuous. Maybe nobody wants to buy second-tier EVs when they can buy a Tesla. I see Teslas all the time around here.

jameslars 3y ago

As someone who has recently went through an EV shopping and purchase exercise, the dealership model has SO MUCH room for improvement. Every dealer was immediately talking to me about financing options and specials before I even sat in any single car, let alone test drove one. Of the 5 makes I test drove: only 1 was willing to have the car configured with an actual single-pedal-driving experience (Volvo). Most were worried that my unfamiliarity with single-pedal-driving would lead to a bad test drive experience. only 1 was willing to talk to me in clear terms about how route planning and mapping would work with the charging network. 2 different dealers told me I would have to download "an app off the appstore" for route planning & charging. every dealer had some sort of dealership mark-up on the EV. Usually in the range of $1K - $3K. The Audi dealer was kind enough not to lie to us about the purpose, it was a dealership markup that he thought would be negotiable if it meant losing the sale. Our Tesla test-drive experience - we showed up for our appointment, got some brief instructions / Q&A, and were handed a set of keys to tool around with for an hour. Another Q&A after, and no pressure to do anything else. We left without any purchase commitment, and made that separately online on our own time after more deliberation about the decision. My partner and I went into this process sure we would pick a non-Tesla, it was the last car type we test drove after weeks of trying others. Every dealership turned us off in some way. That combined with the raw numbers (price of car, range, cargo space, towing capacity) it's no contest that Tesla has both the best EV and the best buying experience for an EV.

chiefalchemist 3y ago

The (US) government strives to keep the price of gasoline artificially low (as compared to other comparable countries), and then at the same time offers tax incentives to encourage the adoption of EVs. Certainly, there's got to be a relationship between the price at the pump and how attractive EV become to car buyers. Instead, we get a solution(s) that's good for politicians but not so good for citizens?

foxyv 3y ago

Weird, it's like no one wants to pre-order a massive depreciating asset for a 20% inflated price at 10% interest and then, when it finally shows up on the dealer 4 months later, get scammed for an additional $5-10k to pay for REQUIRED ceramic coatings and other stuff you never asked for. Then, when you refuse they take the pre-ordered car and sell it to a used car dealer that will then sell it for 30% above MSRP. For some reason, dealers and automakers are making the purchasing process for electric cars 10x harder than it needs to be.