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I do feel like most beginner/intermediate lifters with gym access would be better served just picking a standard full-body workout routine (e.g. GZCLP) and stic

I do feel like most beginner/intermediate lifters with gym access would be better served just picking a standard full-body workout routine (e.g. GZCLP) and sticking to it. Figuring out which muscle groups you'd like to be targeting with specialized exercises is not something you should be doing as a novice.

capableweb 3y ago
This strikes me as a general comment about workouts, not about this application specifically, correct? I see nothing to indicate this application is targeting novices in particular.
- hk__2 3y ago
  I don’t see anything either that indicate it’s targetting people experienced with the matter; it just targets everyone.
- suddenclarity 3y ago
  That's kinda the issue. Who does it target? You pick an equipment and a muscle, and it builds a workout with six exercises to target that one specific muscle. Your performance will suffer and it will take countless of gym sessions to go through the full body. Who would benefit from this workout? It's one thing to use such a tool to find new exercises to target a specific body part but then you should probably use the source the tool is importing videos from, not build a full workout just to see.
  - rob74 3y ago
    TBF, you can also select several muscle groups. But yes, consulting a specialist is definitely better...
siva7 3y ago
Could you explain why this is considered bad to just pick the muscle groups you want to train as a novice?
- matwood 3y ago
  Lack of time is one of the biggest reasons people stop lifting. Standard full body programs are going to be more efficient time wise than picking muscle groups. For example, a program with a lot of rows and presses needs little to no biceps or tricep work.
- taccicardia 3y ago
  let's consider two movements: a deadlift and a prone hamstring curl. the deadlift is something you've done a million times whether you know it or not, though the novice is probably more uncoordinated than they realize at higher weights. like it would be a struggle if not dangerous to move a couch, for example. this is a very practical skill to develop, and you're still "targeting" the same muscle group as... ...a prone hamstring curl. how often do you find yourself prone and flexing your knees against a load? probably never, right? how do you contextualize a movement like this to someone's day to day? what i mean is, what is even compelling about a movement like this and what does it actually mean to someone just starting out? i'm the world's biggest proponent of "keep it simple, stupid" when it comes to working out, especially as a novice. super detailed split routines are more often than not overwhelming and set people up to develop bad habits while never meaningfully addressing the core issue that drive many people to go to the gym in the first place: people suck at moving.
- sjamaan 3y ago
  "Targeted" exercises tend to be body-builder type stuff which can only really be done with light weights. Instead, bigger compound movements like squat and deadlift can be incrementally trained leading up to much, much heavier weights and they train the body as an integrated whole. In daily life, the body is used to move with many muscle groups working together. By using a targeted exercise, you can create muscle imbalances and injury is more likely (especially stuff like tendonitis).
- lukas099 3y ago
  It's not actually bad, it's just not the current Internet fad. If you like to work out that way, you should do it.
ghosty141 3y ago
The issue with most of those workouts is that they often incorporate „unhealthy“ exercises like squats (with weights) or situps. I find it really hard to find one that focuses on health rather than building muscle.
- alfons_foobar 3y ago
  ... how are squats "unhealthy"?
  - faichai 3y ago
    If you're new to lifting, your form is likely to be terrible, it's easy to do some damage to your lower back and knees.
    - taccicardia 3y ago
      i've seen this mentality floating around and i don't quite understand it. i think the real problem is this sense of competition and machismo where new lifters feel like they have to be good at it on day one and can't employ a little humility and patience to work on their mobility. these movements are essential and it blows my mind the excuses people will make not do do them. to anyone here who routinely jumps to one plate without warming up and struggles to hit depth: know that i pity you, but you can still back off and get good at these movements if you really care.
    - _v7gu 3y ago
      If you are new to lifting, you probably shouldn’t be handling weights that can damage your lower back and knees. You will learn the correct form as you progress. Ego is more dangerous than squats.
      - kjkjadksj 3y ago
        This is why bodyweight or lower weight squats like goblet are safer. Failure with bodyweight squat doesnt put you out two months. Very easy to add too much weight in the squat rack. Asking beginners to know good form on day 1 squatting means they need a trainer.
Brendinooo 3y ago
Not sure exactly what you’re arguing here but I think I disagree quite a bit. I’ve been lifting for about six months, and I think this is the longest stretch I’ve been able to go without getting bored with it, because I’m at a gym this time and have access to a ton of equipment. Variety can really make a difference, and some will say it’s good for your muscles anyways to do different exercises that are targeting the same muscle groups. And the point of apps like this is that it makes it easy to say “today is push day, push is chest and triceps, show me chest and triceps exercises.” What’s wrong with a novice saying that?
- blitzar 3y ago
  I have found it essential to have a plan on the day. No thinking or deciding, just look at the piece of paper and it says do X 3x10 times, and you do it. Then look at the next thing to do. Do the thinking every 4-6 weeks as you rotate the plan - but also repetition lets you track some progress (reps / weight / how hard set was).
  - anakaine 3y ago
    This is so incredibly important. As a beginner you can basically hit anything often enough and see progress. Once you hit intermediate and the gains slow down you really do need to walk in with a plan. The plan let's you not think and just work. Just working and not thinking, and basically just being told what to do (even if it is just telling yourself) let's you get through the workout repeatably, and with experiencing less of the grind. It also means you hit the body parts with incremental progressive overload in a planned and repeatable fashion, causing growth. And every 6-10 weeks you get the fun of changing it up. And then there's the days where stuff doesn't quite work, but you have turned up anyhow. Those are days I chalk up to fun.
  - Brendinooo 3y ago
    I've been using the Strong app to save workout templates (in a broad push/pull/leg framework) so I have a list of stuff to do each time, but if I'm bored with an exercise or (more typically) someone's been using the rack for 30 minutes and I need to move on, that's when I'll look for an alternative exercise. Apps like Strong or Fitbod or this new site are great in this scenario - can filter by what you have and will show you how to do it.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Daneel_ 3y ago
“Just picking a standard full-body workout routine” - that’s the issue, I have no idea what the names of standard routines are or where to find them. I’d love to know several. I know none. Like many things, knowing the name or term of what you’re looking for is the gateway - without that you’re stuck floundering.
- 50 3y ago
  see https://stronglifts.com/ https://stronglifts.com/, reasonable program/philosophy to abide by - i came across it on here on hn, if i recall correctly
- _v7gu 3y ago
  Starting strength is the most classic one: https://startingstrength.com/get-started/programs https://startingstrength.com/get-started/programs Or you know, you could go into a couple of fitness forums and see which programs pop up again and again.
  - somethingreen 3y ago
    Please don't do SS as a beginner, unless you are sure lifting heavy is what you want and are positive you'll be able to get through setbacks. Absolutely, read SS the book and apply its wisdom to corresponding lifts in the bodybuilding program you'll pick up instead. Then, once you are comfortable in the gym, slowly progress to add heavier lifts/sessions into your program. From there decide if you want to prioritize either.
    - lukas099 3y ago
      The main problem with SS for me is that encourages you to push through extreme exhaustion, because weight resets are based on failure to complete reps, and completely ignore Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE). I got a lot stronger on SS, but the last few weeks were killer and ended with injuries for me.
      - zls 3y ago
Aerroon 3y ago
>would be better served just picking a standard full-body workout routine (e.g. GZCLP) But many people aren't going to follow those routines. It's my impression that deadlifts and squats aren't good exercises for this use case because of the danger they present. Sure, they might be "completely safe" when "done correctly", but somebody using an app and trying to mimic exercises they see in videos or pictures is only guessing at whether they do the exercises correctly. To build muscle you need progressive overload, but that also means that "doing the exercises correctly" gets even more difficult. With most other lifts it's not that big of a deal, but with squats and deadlifts the weights get really high. A dropped barbell with squat weights can easily lead to injury. Hell, it can lead to injury when it's even just lifted the wrong way. And when you remove those two lifts then a lot of 'standard full body workout' regimes don't work anymore.
- matwood 3y ago
  As humans we squat and dead lift all day. Every single person should learn how to do those two movements with some proficiency and intention. They should be part of basis of any weight program focused on health and longevity. And while progressive overload is needed, no one is going from the bar to massive weight overnight. Also, not everyone needs to have the goal of being a power lifter. Peter Attia talks about wanting his older clients to be able to a 45lb kettlebell squat, the average weight of a toddler grandkid for example.
  - datavirtue 3y ago
    Not with weight on their back. You should seek professional advice for weight training. I learned that trainers don't even let people touch a bar for a year as they repair and strengthen their core. It's all body weight and PVC pipes to develop form.
    - jayGlow 3y ago
      if your trainers aren't letting you touch weights for a year you need better trainers. form is important but perfect is the enemy of good enough. if you try and be absolutely perfect before progressing at all you'll never move an inch.
hospitalJail 3y ago
100% with you. A few full body lifts + cardio is what most people need. This might be useful for physical therapists or body builders though.
- datavirtue 3y ago
  The amount of horrible, dumb fitness advice on here is almost surprising.
  - hospitalJail 3y ago
    "Post bod"
bjornasm 3y ago
I disagree with you. Its over 10 years ago I medaled in an national powerlifting competition. Nowadays I just want to lift some weights, and have no intention of following a set program ad I have no end goals other than to keep healthy and fit. I'm pretty sure im not the only one who likes some variation without going full crossfit.
- herculity275 3y ago
  But you're not a novice, you clearly know what you're doing. I'm saying that somebody who's just starting out and doesn't know how to do a proper squat shouldn't be tinkering with their sets too much.

capableweb 3y ago

This strikes me as a general comment about workouts, not about this application specifically, correct? I see nothing to indicate this application is targeting novices in particular.

hk__2 3y ago
I don’t see anything either that indicate it’s targetting people experienced with the matter; it just targets everyone.
suddenclarity 3y ago
That's kinda the issue. Who does it target? You pick an equipment and a muscle, and it builds a workout with six exercises to target that one specific muscle. Your performance will suffer and it will take countless of gym sessions to go through the full body. Who would benefit from this workout? It's one thing to use such a tool to find new exercises to target a specific body part but then you should probably use the source the tool is importing videos from, not build a full workout just to see.
- rob74 3y ago
  TBF, you can also select several muscle groups. But yes, consulting a specialist is definitely better...

siva7 3y ago

Could you explain why this is considered bad to just pick the muscle groups you want to train as a novice?

matwood 3y ago
Lack of time is one of the biggest reasons people stop lifting. Standard full body programs are going to be more efficient time wise than picking muscle groups. For example, a program with a lot of rows and presses needs little to no biceps or tricep work.
taccicardia 3y ago
let's consider two movements: a deadlift and a prone hamstring curl. the deadlift is something you've done a million times whether you know it or not, though the novice is probably more uncoordinated than they realize at higher weights. like it would be a struggle if not dangerous to move a couch, for example. this is a very practical skill to develop, and you're still "targeting" the same muscle group as... ...a prone hamstring curl. how often do you find yourself prone and flexing your knees against a load? probably never, right? how do you contextualize a movement like this to someone's day to day? what i mean is, what is even compelling about a movement like this and what does it actually mean to someone just starting out? i'm the world's biggest proponent of "keep it simple, stupid" when it comes to working out, especially as a novice. super detailed split routines are more often than not overwhelming and set people up to develop bad habits while never meaningfully addressing the core issue that drive many people to go to the gym in the first place: people suck at moving.
sjamaan 3y ago
"Targeted" exercises tend to be body-builder type stuff which can only really be done with light weights. Instead, bigger compound movements like squat and deadlift can be incrementally trained leading up to much, much heavier weights and they train the body as an integrated whole. In daily life, the body is used to move with many muscle groups working together. By using a targeted exercise, you can create muscle imbalances and injury is more likely (especially stuff like tendonitis).
lukas099 3y ago
It's not actually bad, it's just not the current Internet fad. If you like to work out that way, you should do it.

ghosty141 3y ago

The issue with most of those workouts is that they often incorporate „unhealthy“ exercises like squats (with weights) or situps. I find it really hard to find one that focuses on health rather than building muscle.

alfons_foobar 3y ago
... how are squats "unhealthy"?
- faichai 3y ago
  If you're new to lifting, your form is likely to be terrible, it's easy to do some damage to your lower back and knees.
  - taccicardia 3y ago
    i've seen this mentality floating around and i don't quite understand it. i think the real problem is this sense of competition and machismo where new lifters feel like they have to be good at it on day one and can't employ a little humility and patience to work on their mobility. these movements are essential and it blows my mind the excuses people will make not do do them. to anyone here who routinely jumps to one plate without warming up and struggles to hit depth: know that i pity you, but you can still back off and get good at these movements if you really care.
  - _v7gu 3y ago
    If you are new to lifting, you probably shouldn’t be handling weights that can damage your lower back and knees. You will learn the correct form as you progress. Ego is more dangerous than squats.
    - kjkjadksj 3y ago
      This is why bodyweight or lower weight squats like goblet are safer. Failure with bodyweight squat doesnt put you out two months. Very easy to add too much weight in the squat rack. Asking beginners to know good form on day 1 squatting means they need a trainer.

Brendinooo 3y ago

Not sure exactly what you’re arguing here but I think I disagree quite a bit. I’ve been lifting for about six months, and I think this is the longest stretch I’ve been able to go without getting bored with it, because I’m at a gym this time and have access to a ton of equipment. Variety can really make a difference, and some will say it’s good for your muscles anyways to do different exercises that are targeting the same muscle groups. And the point of apps like this is that it makes it easy to say “today is push day, push is chest and triceps, show me chest and triceps exercises.” What’s wrong with a novice saying that?

blitzar 3y ago
I have found it essential to have a plan on the day. No thinking or deciding, just look at the piece of paper and it says do X 3x10 times, and you do it. Then look at the next thing to do. Do the thinking every 4-6 weeks as you rotate the plan - but also repetition lets you track some progress (reps / weight / how hard set was).
- anakaine 3y ago
  This is so incredibly important. As a beginner you can basically hit anything often enough and see progress. Once you hit intermediate and the gains slow down you really do need to walk in with a plan. The plan let's you not think and just work. Just working and not thinking, and basically just being told what to do (even if it is just telling yourself) let's you get through the workout repeatably, and with experiencing less of the grind. It also means you hit the body parts with incremental progressive overload in a planned and repeatable fashion, causing growth. And every 6-10 weeks you get the fun of changing it up. And then there's the days where stuff doesn't quite work, but you have turned up anyhow. Those are days I chalk up to fun.
- Brendinooo 3y ago
  I've been using the Strong app to save workout templates (in a broad push/pull/leg framework) so I have a list of stuff to do each time, but if I'm bored with an exercise or (more typically) someone's been using the rack for 30 minutes and I need to move on, that's when I'll look for an alternative exercise. Apps like Strong or Fitbod or this new site are great in this scenario - can filter by what you have and will show you how to do it.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

Daneel_ 3y ago

“Just picking a standard full-body workout routine” - that’s the issue, I have no idea what the names of standard routines are or where to find them. I’d love to know several. I know none. Like many things, knowing the name or term of what you’re looking for is the gateway - without that you’re stuck floundering.

50 3y ago
see https://stronglifts.com/ https://stronglifts.com/, reasonable program/philosophy to abide by - i came across it on here on hn, if i recall correctly
_v7gu 3y ago
Starting strength is the most classic one: https://startingstrength.com/get-started/programs https://startingstrength.com/get-started/programs Or you know, you could go into a couple of fitness forums and see which programs pop up again and again.
- somethingreen 3y ago
  Please don't do SS as a beginner, unless you are sure lifting heavy is what you want and are positive you'll be able to get through setbacks. Absolutely, read SS the book and apply its wisdom to corresponding lifts in the bodybuilding program you'll pick up instead. Then, once you are comfortable in the gym, slowly progress to add heavier lifts/sessions into your program. From there decide if you want to prioritize either.
  - lukas099 3y ago
    The main problem with SS for me is that encourages you to push through extreme exhaustion, because weight resets are based on failure to complete reps, and completely ignore Rate of Perceived Exertion (RPE). I got a lot stronger on SS, but the last few weeks were killer and ended with injuries for me.
    - zls 3y ago

Aerroon 3y ago

>would be better served just picking a standard full-body workout routine (e.g. GZCLP) But many people aren't going to follow those routines. It's my impression that deadlifts and squats aren't good exercises for this use case because of the danger they present. Sure, they might be "completely safe" when "done correctly", but somebody using an app and trying to mimic exercises they see in videos or pictures is only guessing at whether they do the exercises correctly. To build muscle you need progressive overload, but that also means that "doing the exercises correctly" gets even more difficult. With most other lifts it's not that big of a deal, but with squats and deadlifts the weights get really high. A dropped barbell with squat weights can easily lead to injury. Hell, it can lead to injury when it's even just lifted the wrong way. And when you remove those two lifts then a lot of 'standard full body workout' regimes don't work anymore.

matwood 3y ago
As humans we squat and dead lift all day. Every single person should learn how to do those two movements with some proficiency and intention. They should be part of basis of any weight program focused on health and longevity. And while progressive overload is needed, no one is going from the bar to massive weight overnight. Also, not everyone needs to have the goal of being a power lifter. Peter Attia talks about wanting his older clients to be able to a 45lb kettlebell squat, the average weight of a toddler grandkid for example.
- datavirtue 3y ago
  Not with weight on their back. You should seek professional advice for weight training. I learned that trainers don't even let people touch a bar for a year as they repair and strengthen their core. It's all body weight and PVC pipes to develop form.
  - jayGlow 3y ago
    if your trainers aren't letting you touch weights for a year you need better trainers. form is important but perfect is the enemy of good enough. if you try and be absolutely perfect before progressing at all you'll never move an inch.

hospitalJail 3y ago

100% with you. A few full body lifts + cardio is what most people need. This might be useful for physical therapists or body builders though.

datavirtue 3y ago
The amount of horrible, dumb fitness advice on here is almost surprising.
- hospitalJail 3y ago
  "Post bod"

bjornasm 3y ago

I disagree with you. Its over 10 years ago I medaled in an national powerlifting competition. Nowadays I just want to lift some weights, and have no intention of following a set program ad I have no end goals other than to keep healthy and fit. I'm pretty sure im not the only one who likes some variation without going full crossfit.

herculity275 3y ago
But you're not a novice, you clearly know what you're doing. I'm saying that somebody who's just starting out and doesn't know how to do a proper squat shouldn't be tinkering with their sets too much.