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How to Pick a Mate (1946)
- Quinzel 3y agoThis made me laugh a lot. Thank you for sharing.
- drno123 3y agoInterestingly that today we laugh at the fact that there is a book helping people how to make one of the most important decisions in their life. It is normal to have books about how to cook food, how to travel, how to exercise. But God forbid there should be a book on how to select a good marriage partner.
- langitbiru 3y agoBecause picking a good marriage partner is ableist. That's why it's controversial. For example, people prefer good looking people as marriage partners. That makes people who are not good looking sad. And you can imagine for other traits like income, age, height, social status.
- the_sleaze9 3y agoWhat a time to be able to read.
- irrational 3y agoThey were clearly joking. I think.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y agoI'm going to assume that you believe that there is only one standard for "good looking people" and that everyone conforms to it?
- welshwelsh 3y agoWhat "good looking" means might vary somewhat from person to person, but it's not completely subjective. Some people look better than others, which makes them more desirable partners in general.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y agoI beg to differ, but this isn't a hill I care about dying on, so I'll leave it at that.
- Veraticus 3y agoWait, isn't there still a huge industry of self-help books focused on relationships and romance?
- friend_and_foe 3y agoSure, for women. But to tell a man to be selective when searching for a female partner, and to give him criteria and heuristics to help him select are labeled as sexist. After all, every woman has worth, a woman can never be told that she has to do any self reflection to find a quality man, we can't be allowed to admit that some women are undesirable just like some men are.
- Veraticus 3y agoYikes, it sounds like you have something you need to work on.
- friend_and_foe 3y agoLike what?
- Veraticus 3y agoNot creating weird misogynistic strawmen would be a cool start
- friend_and_foe 3y agoOh I see, you don't have a point. Got it.
- Veraticus 3y agoNo I said it. Not really my problem if you can’t read that, since it was honestly pretty obvious. And the other reply to your comment laid out basically the same criticism.
- vorpalhex 3y agoNo no, you'll just see someone and realize through sight alone they are your _true love_. Fate will have happened. Or you'll hookup with someone and then through a rom com series of mishaps end up falling in love accidentally! Remember, you can't choose to love someone. You are a powerless pawn. You need fate or the stars or an accident to fall in love. I'm being grumpy but we've developed a weird cultural learned helplessness when it comes to relationships. We're so afraid to be seen as judging other people most folks can't even seem to directly take action.
- ddalex 3y agoAnd I hoped this is about chess end games.
- Xeoncross 3y ago> There are still other people who don’t marry because they lack a decent opportunity. Girls who choose nursing as a career, for example, cut their marriage prospects at least fifty per cent. It is much the same for librarians and social workers. In fact a girl can reduce her chances of marriage merely by going to a girls’ college. you have been warned /s
- lukas099 3y agoYou don't think this is true?
- revscat 3y agoJudging by how you feel it necessary to even ask such a ridiculous question, I strongly doubt you would accept any answer but that which supports your anachronistic views.
- vorpalhex 3y agoA man goes to the office every working day. He works long hours as he is trying to prove himself and really grow his career. Even after work, he's more likely to just quietly hit the gym or read in the evenings. He's obviously hurt his chances at marriage. He's not investing in any women. He's not socializing or dating, he's not learning to be a good partner. Now go back and pretend I said "woman" instead of "man".
- oh_sigh 3y agoData about marriage among people who choose various lifepaths is not a viewpoint.
- vehemenz 3y agoThere is an increasingly prevalent view among the "freshman profundity" set that if you've arrived at any view that is counter to theirs, then it's because you oppose their political or moral value system. However, a good understanding of the world rarely yield beliefs that cohere with the kind of convenient, value-oriented rhetorical slogans that people get self-righteous over online.
- DaveExeter 3y ago"Your chances of getting a mate you will like are even affected by your sex. If you are a girl your chances are not as good as if you were a man. This is largely due to the fact that a girl cannot gracefully take the initiative in stalking a mate who looks attractive to her." <giggle> Ladies, stalking a man does work, sometimes.
- alexpotato 3y agoThe whole "he wouldn't stop calling me/stopping by my work etc till we went on a date and now we've been married 40+ years" was apparently a LOT more common back in the mid 20th century. Hard to imagine that happening today.
- HeyLaughingBoy 3y agoNo, not really. There's a difference between persistence and stalking. Sometimes a very fine line, depending on the personalities involved. The reality is that some people enjoy being pursued, but often their signals can be subtle or misunderstood. If it's been suggested or hinted at that you should stop (or outright told, "quit bugging me"), then continuing is stalking. You'd think everyone would understand that but evidently that's not the case.
- Scubabear68 3y agoThere obvious historical issues with this book that make it hard to apply to today, but I was still surprised at how well written this was for it’s time. This also shows the importance of birth control in women’s lives. In 1946, sex was a roll of the dice to being pregnant. The odds are now massively improved to avoid pregnancy by using modern birth control methods.
- alexpotato 3y ago> but I was still surprised at how well written this was for it’s time. I've read several books written by soldiers who fought in WW1 and the Boer War. It's fascinating to read a book written 100+ years ago that is easy to read, informative and witty all at the same time. Sure, there are some things that are hard to understand b/c they don't exist anymore (E.g. "the crates were packed with excelsior") but overall they've been very interesting.
- op00to 3y agoMarriage would be so much more straightforward if many of the lessons that we had to learn anyway were presented up front. It’s too bad that so many pre-marriage “courses” are religious in nature.
- solardev 3y agoTotally this. I wish schools taught relationship dynamics, family issues, basic finance, etc. rather than useless maths and archaic grammar. I never learned that stuff from my parents and spent decades learning it the hard way.
- mighmi 3y ago> how well written this was for it’s time This is the first time I've encountered the sentiment that things have become better written in the last 3-6 generations. Are you really surprised that a book from 1946 would be well written? I´d love to glean an idea of your views on this to widen my own views.
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- jackblemming 3y agoNine Dangerous Characters is unironically good advice. But people of course love to look for “sexist” snippets instead, so they can laugh at people of past, as if they would have been any better.
- dxbydt 3y agoAmazingly well written. I found myself vigorously agreeing with several strong statements therein...I guess its because I'm an immigrant from a conservative culture and this is kinda how we think about these things. Very cut and dry, doesn't waste time hemming & hawing. Gets to the point. Just to be safe, I downloaded this book. I'm pretty sure we won't see this freely hosted online a decade from now, given the current cultural mores.
- thrtythreeforty 3y ago> pretty sure we won't see this freely hosted online a decade from now Eh, regardless of cultural mores, I think you'll still be able to find it on sites like Gutenberg whose explicit goal is to preserve public domain works. I agree that it is very cut and dry, and I miss that tone in more modern nonfiction literature - this tone is present in many genres from the WWII era; even technical manuals for old radios read very conversationally yet tersely.
- bookofjoe 3y agoCo-author Vance O. Packard's 1957 book "The Hidden Persuaders" was a best-seller. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_Packard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vance_Packard
- mihaic 3y agoThank you for the link. His output seems to be remarkably perenial and valid today, the kind that's usually done by a profound observer that has all the information but that can also see things through the eyes of an outsider.
- bookofjoe 3y agoFree PDF: https://archive.org/download/the-hidden-persuaders-vance-packard-1957-pdf-february-11-2012-7-09-pm-9-6-meg https://archive.org/download/the-hidden-persuaders-vance-pac...
- coding123 3y agoI thought this was interesting: People Who Should Not Marry at All Qualifications for Marriage Percentage Voting for Them Freedom from venereal disease 100% Freedom from feeble-mindedness (If sterilized, 24% would permit marriage) 99% Freedom from insanity 97% Freedom from criminality 94% Freedom from dipsomania 91% Freedom from drug addiction 85% Freedom from neuroticism 76% Proof by groom that he can support bride (This includes evidence of occupational proficiency and at least $150 in savings) 69% Record of no more than one divorce, if any 50%
- igotstandards 3y agoReminds me of: https://igotstandardsbro.com/ https://igotstandardsbro.com/ Similarly: https://realitycalc.com/ https://realitycalc.com/
- mock-possum 3y agoAccording to that first one I only had a 4% chance of meeting my boyfriend, so that’s interesting. 4% actually seems pretty doable regardless, not sure I really deserve the ‘cat lady’ rating - go on a hundred dates, and you should at least run across a few solid possibilities.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago$150 USD/1946 is about $2,340 USD/2023. Interesting.
- aaronscott 3y agoI was curious for a summary of what the book suggested. Here is Kagi’s summarizer: - Emotional maturity and stability are key traits for a happy marriage. People who are well-adjusted, have good self-confidence, and can handle problems well tend to have more successful marriages. - Communication and companionship are vital for a happy marriage. Couples need to develop a strong bond through sharing interests, aspirations, and conversations. - Compatibility and similar traits between partners promote marital happiness. Couples who have similar personalities, backgrounds, and interests tend to get along better. - Sexual satisfaction and intimacy are important for a fulfilling marriage. Couples need to develop a good sexual relationship and intimacy to avoid infidelity and build closeness. - Mutual understanding, trust, and respect are crucial for a lasting marriage. Partners need to be considerate of each other's needs, supportive, and willing to compromise. - Shared goals and values help strengthen a marriage. Couples who have common life goals and moral values tend to be more content in their relationships. - Financial stability and compatibility aid marital happiness. Couples who manage their finances well and agree on spending habits tend to have fewer conflicts. - Physical and mental health issues can strain a marriage. Conditions like addiction, mental illness, and disabilities require effort and understanding from both partners. - Similar family backgrounds promote marital success. Children of happily married parents tend to have more successful marriages themselves. - Premarital counseling can help resolve issues before marriage. Seeking advice from professionals and discussing expectations can prepare couples for the challenges of married life.
- Aachen 3y agoNon-native speaker here. Is there a ranking to "key", "vital", "crucial", and "important", or should I read these as being equivalently important? I'm taking the latter as lesser than the former three, though that also depends on what Kagi is I suppose.
- ethanbond 3y agoInteresting question! I think I’d agree with your ranking. Maybe important < key < [crucial or vital] But this strikes me more as a question of author’s emphasis rather than a ranking of the actual factors in reality?
- xethos 3y ago> More than ten per cent of the eligible men today won’t marry, but that will largely be due to the fact that they prefer to remain bachelors. I'm sure that's the full story on why they won't marry, 1940's era author ;)
- Aachen 3y agoNot sure what this is getting at
- readthenotes1 3y agoGay marriage wasn't legal back then
- jedberg 3y agoIt's worse than that. Back then being gay wasn't even legal, much less gay marriage.
- chongli 3y agoOnly about 2-3% of men report being gay in western countries today. “Over ten percent” is a much larger number.
- jedberg 3y agoBecause there is still a stigma to it and there are still many men who hide that part of their identity (and women too). And also because being gay obviously isn't the only reason men stay single.
- auveair 3y agoYou can also be Bi, Pansexual, Asexual, Queer, etc > "In 2021, Ipsos interviewed people in 27 countries spanning all continents on their sexual orientation and gender identity. For some countries the samples were weighed for representativity, but in others with less internet access, they skewed more urban. In this survey, 80% of people worldwide identified as heterosexual, 3% as homosexual, 4% as bisexual, and 1% each as pansexual, asexual, and other. Results indicated that significant differences in sexual identity have emerged between generations across the globe, with the youngest group, or Generation Z, being more likely to identify as bisexual (9%) than Millennials (4%), Generation X (3%) and Boomers (2%). Generation Z and Millennials were also more likely to identify as homosexual, with 4% and 3% doing so respectively, compared to 2% of Generation X and 1% of Boomers."
- RedShift1 3y agoLol, pick :'). I have to stop at the title because I don't even get to the part where I get to pick :').
- Jeff_Brown 3y agoSearch does come first. Someone would be happy to have you, I'm almost sure. And if not, well, you know what to work on. I thought I was unworthy for a long time, and basically invested in myself until my 40s. Then when I started looking in earnest, I got married scary fast.
- RedShift1 3y agoWhere do you look? Inside my friend circle there's nobody (all married or in a relationship), Tinder is a bust (I don't even remember when my last match was). I used to attend some Linux clubs but even if they are available they are so defensive about a man coming over to chat that the best thing I can muster is saying how good the cola is... Nobody at workplace either...
- FredPret 3y ago(Assuming you're a straight male) I'm happy that there are more women in computing than before, but I would bet money against even finding one, let alone a single one who is a match, at a Linux club. It's a numbers game, and you have to go where the numbers are. But you also shouldn't go to spots with lots of single women - like yoga or something - solely to pick one up. Dating with an aim to marry is not easy for any demographic, especially if you're starting from scratch, but you only have to hit the jackpot once
- Jeff_Brown 3y agoI used Tinder in Colombia. (I'm from the US, but I live here now -- to which fact my wife surely deserves some credit.)
- wnolens 3y agoSkimmed through a few sections, can't help but compare it to "The Game" with marriage as the goal instead of pickup/sex. But treats it like a game all the same, and treats women like pawns in that game.
- Veraticus 3y agoUnfortunately this was probably pretty close to reality for most women in the timeframe that this author was writing this in.
- judge2020 3y agoYes, given the author says this: > A basic argument for marriage is that it offers a logical division of labor. Imagine how much more complicated and inconvenient life would be if men had to do their own cooking and sewing, and women—all women—had to compete with men for a livelihood! Of course, since '46 capitalism has demanded women enter the workforce to compete with men and drive down wages.
- Veraticus 3y agoThis is a weird way to frame women working.
- sandworm101 3y ago>> By marrying, a man becomes a better employment risk. Married men usually are regarded as more steady, more trustworthy employees than single men. This is logical. Marriage exerts a stabilizing influence on most men. Oh wow has that changed. Kids and families = time away from the office. Marriage is also the leading cause of divorce, which tends to reduce productivity across a few years, especially if child custody is an issue. And, contrary to past working conditions where promotions were steady, a married person with a young family is now probably more likely to jump ship for a better job at higher pay rather that wait out a decade for in-house promotions.
- warmwaffles 3y ago> Marriage is also the leading cause of divorce Did you mean to say children instead of Marriage? You can't have divorce without marriage.
- sandworm101 3y agoIt's an old joke. It is also a statement illustrating a type of logical absurdity. I had a tax professor once rave at a student because her answer to "how to reduce your client's tax burden" was to have the client quit their job and have no income. "Having money is the leading cause of paying taxes!"
- warmwaffles 3y agoAh makes way more sense.
- ble 3y agoInteresting. What personal experiences or survey data are you drawing on for these conclusions? All of what you say sounds like solid, believable inferences but I doubt most people are exposed to enough data about the interaction of family life and work to draw meaningful generalizations. (If you turn out to be a professor of quantitative sociology, my face will be bright red :) ).
- ankaAr 3y agoAs Argentinian I should tag this as clickbait
- ricc 3y agoI seriously thought this was about finding a friend- or buddy-for-life...
- sacnoradhq 3y agoThe most optimal situation to pick a mate is during college, undergrad or grad school. This other institution has been eroding because of the lack of men going to college and excessive tuition costs, i.e., debt, for all reducing the net economic incentive that it once was. The questions they must eventually answer in the affirmative are: 1. Do you trust them implicitly with your life and everything else? 2. Are you better with them than apart? The irreducible problem is: very few people today can or would meet this standard. There aren't that many good, decent, mature, reliable people who are also available and mutually attracted. There are millions of cowardly narcissists working on their sun tans, personal brands, and increasing numbers of people they've slept with without knowing anything about them because they're too afraid to have emotional courage.