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San Francisco loses 2 big conferences
- pengaru 3y ago> Access to this page has been denied
- KindOne 3y agohttps://archive.is/VVciz https://archive.is/VVciz
- kneebonian 3y agoFor those curious > Meta and Red Hat, called off 2024 conferences that were set to be held at San Francisco's Moscone Center
- _delirium 3y agoAlso mentioned: Red Hat is moving the 2024 Red Hat Summit to Denver and the 2025 event to Orlando. Pre-covid they always alternated between SF and Boston (even years in SF, odd years in Boston), so I guess they’re moving away from that. The article does not say whether Meta is moving its conference elsewhere or just canceling it.
- CoastalCoder 3y agoAnyone know the reasons for the cancellations? I didn't see that in the article.
- benatkin 3y agoMore expensive and a pain to go to the conference. I guess that's a big part of why they're attempting to extend CalTrain to Salesforce Transit Center at a ridiculous per-mile cost.
- Calvin02 3y agoBut aren’t most conference attendees from out of town? My guess is either shrinking demand for the conference (vs the cost) and or location desirability.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- benatkin 3y agoI'd have to see a map of where conference attendees stay. I assumed some would be commuting every day just like residents. I also could be wrong but I thought a lot would stay in hotels near the airport, especially those who live out of town but work for companies that have offices in South Bay and are going to visit the offices while they're in the Bay Area. One option for commuting conferencegoers is to take transit into the conference to beat the traffic and take Uber or Lyft back after having dinner near the conference, when there is less traffic. Except some would take it on the way back as well because the traffic got them to familiarize themselves with public transit.
- dehrmann 3y agoMoscone isn't that much closer to the Salesforce bus station than to Caltrain. It's about the same time once you add in the extra time to wind through the tunnel and get out of the terminal. The issue with Caltrain is it ends about 1.5 miles short of downtown.
- inferiorhuman 3y agoNobody's going to take Caltrain from the airport to Moscone. Spending a few billion dollars on a bus station is ridiculous but it's orthogonal to the issue at hand. Moscone now has a subway stop, which may help with downtown connectivity (but I won't hold my breath).
- benatkin 3y agoNobody? How about people staying at an airport hotel? And you realize that conference attendees have to fight traffic if they aren't staying at a hotel downtown, because conferences start at about the same time a regular work day starts.
- dehrmann 3y agoInterestingly, they danced around it. It's one thing for conference organizers to not say it in case they want to come back, but normally local news will try to put it in a broader context.
- treeman79 3y agoHomelessness. Theft. Human poop everywhere, safety.
- lordnacho 3y agoIt wouldn't surprise me if this were the real reason. It really jumps out at you as a visitor. I mean literally last time I was there, a dude pooped in front of me. Another person ran into a restaurant to grab my leftovers. Numerous people were cursing at their imaginary enemy. All in areas of town where visitors might be quite common. It's really quite bad and it's an impression someone ought to do something about.
- stanford_labrat 3y agoI found used condoms on and around my car not once but twice, and that was enough for me…
- alephnerd 3y agoJust make sure not to wear a technicolor dreamcoat and remember they won't refund your deposit.
- stubybubs 3y agoWest Coast city stuff then. It's everywhere. I'm convinced there isn't any kind of immediate solution to these problems. Not that we should give up on mental health and addictions treatment. I just think the solution is way broader. Reduce income inequality, improve schools, keep up the drug treatment so the children of people with drug problems stand a chance, better research about when opiate prescriptions are appropriate (like 24 hours post surgery at most then just acetaminophen), universal healthcare and childcare to stop people falling into poverty... Then wait a good 20 years for those things to ripple through society. I know HN loves solutioning and grand projects, but at least consider that this isn't always the way. Consider the article from a couple of days ago about letting ACL tears heal on their own rather than doing surgery. You cannot engineer your way out of everything and often it makes things worse.
- AmericanOP 3y agoConferences are held downtown.
- pixelgeek 3y agoIn lieu of Red Hat and Meta saying why they cancelled, it would be pure speculation.
- MisterSandman 3y agoMeta cancelled altogether, so that is probably just a cost-saving measure (Meta isn't doing too well rn). RedHat moved their conferences to other states in the US, but still plan on holding future conferences in SF. Which, to me, also sounds like a temporary cost saving measure. I highly doubt it's because of safety or homelessness, if that was the case then they wouldn't be commiting to hold future conferences in SF.
- fedbtfbh 3y ago> Meta cancelled altogether, so that is probably just a cost-saving measure (Meta isn't doing too well rn). Poorly informed comments like this by otherwise intwlligent people hurt hn. Meta is minting money right now.
- LeafItAlone 3y agoWhat makes you say Meta isn’t doing well now? 2022 was rough on them, but 2023 seems to be treating them well. https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/META/ https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/META/
- Tiktaalik 3y agoI would think at this scale of conference organization, the decisions around things to do in 2023 are being made deep in 2022. So they probably decided to cancel 2023 in the midst of the big layoffs and cost cutting of 2022.
- netfl0 3y agoI was only assaulted once at my last conference there (2023).
- extasia 3y agoWhat?
- yieldcrv 3y agorookie numbers
- rib3ye 3y agoAs an SF resident, 20 years, I was only stolen from twice, and one of those times was at a restaurant next to Moscone during a convention. The data is not encouraging
- heartjudytenuta 3y agoIn 15 years, I only had a crackhead try to forcibly open my passenger door at a stoplight one time, so clearly this is an overreaction. Maybe he just needed a ride.
- jrflowers 3y agoI like the point you’re making here. SF is relatively safe because you only had one bad criminal experience in 15 years. Or SF is relatively unsafe because you had >0 bad criminal experiences in 15 years.
- reaperducer 3y agoI was only assaulted once at my last conference there I was only assaulted once the first time I was in Vancouver, BC. What's your point?
- thatswrong0 3y agoI used to work near Moscone. I know far too many people who share OPs experience. It's a shit show.
- femiagbabiaka 3y agoNature is healing.
- ldehaan 3y ago[dead]
- mirekrusin 3y ago"(...) 2028 and beyond trending to be above 90% of the average" so quite bad decline for foreseeable future. what a rhetoric gymnastic to mislead it's "ok".
- bnt 3y agoAre these venues booked 5 years in advance?
- creer 3y agoMuch longer than that. "SF Travel said Red Hat is scheduled for events at Moscone in 2026, 2028, 2030 and 2032" in one of the fine articles. They also seem to be "not cancelled" long in advance. But that makes sense, if you want a specific venue on a specific date, there is no alternative to early options.
- kiwih 3y agoWithin my community (Academic) there has also been a bit of a push to hold conferences elsewhere as well. Not because of safety, just because of cost. It's a growing fortune to hold an event in SF (both event space and then hotels or Airbnb for the attendees) and it's increasingly unclear that you're getting value for the money.
- tlogan 3y agoIn separate news, sf chief economist is saying that everything is great [1]. Why is there such strong denial among city leadership and many individuals? [1] https://sfist.com/2023/07/06/san-franciscos-chief-economist-says-doom-loop-talk-overblown-consumer-spending-nearing-pre-pandemic-levels/ https://sfist.com/2023/07/06/san-franciscos-chief-economist-...
- Fordec 3y agoIf he said anything otherwise the economic death spiral would become a cliff. He's just doing his job to not make national headlines basically telling people to run to the hills. He's not right, but he's not in a political position that will economically benefit the people of the city by being candid.
- stainablesteel 3y agothis is a repeat of what happened to philly when it went from bustling economic center to a union stronghold that stifled productivity, the politicians today still pretend like nothings changed
- DebtDeflation 3y agoI've been to tech conferences in San Francisco (Moscone specifically), Vegas, Orlando, Chicago, and Boston. While I'm not ordinarily a fan of Las Vegas, it is hands down the absolute best place for conferences, logistically. It's a 10 minute Uber to get from the airport to the strip. Tons of hotels on the strip. If the conference is at one strip hotel and you are staying at pretty much any other strip hotel, you can walk to your conference in 10 minutes or less, and you can complete the entire walk underground. Tons of food, cafes, etc. along the walk. Entertainment venues everywhere (obviously, it's Vegas). SF/Moscone is the absolute worst for getting around. The other cities are ok-ish but only if you're staying at the hotel where the conference is being held.
- 8f2ab37a-ed6c 3y agoFully agreed. We threw company offsites in a bunch of different locations around the US and Vegas was by far most affordable and convenient of them all once you got to a certain size.
- CydeWeys 3y agoDefinitely not true that you can walk the length of the entire strip in ten minutes. The strip is not super great for pedestrians because you have to keep walking up, around, and through various escalators/bridges/casino entryways. The strip would be much more pedestrian friendly if they closed the main street to cars and let you simply walk at ground level in a direct line. Anyway, it takes over an hour to walk from one end of the strip to the other. You really do need to pick a nearby hotel, not any strip hotel. And no idea what you're talking about re: walking underground. That's not true for most strip hotels. But yes, on your overall point, I agree that Las Vegas is a good spot for conventions.
- gotaran 3y agoThere’s a lot of (admittedly warranted) shade been thrown on SF here over the past two days. But putting that aside, I feel sad that remote work + the tech downturn means that employers have slashed all conference travel budgets. Conferences were a great way for me to meet professionals outside of my workplace. Even if it was just an excuse to get drunk and party, I think the industry benefitted as a whole from the networking. Conferences in 2023 are just sad. The vendor/prospect ratio is way off, and you can really feel the tension on vendors’ faces. Some of these today make RSAC and BlackHat look like stodgy academic conferences.
- karaterobot 3y ago> SF Travel said Red Hat is scheduled for events at Moscone in 2026, 2028, 2030 and 2032. Maybe they'll cancel those too, but it's worth noting that Red Hat and Meta have not said anything like "we're done with San Francisco", they just both backed out of a conference booking at around the same time. Could be a coincidence. We don't know. Feels premature to draw conclusions though.
- RickJWagner 3y agoIn the 70s, NYC was a mess. Crime, drugs, sexual stuff in public, etc. The people got fed up with it and voted for different city government. Cops got more leeway, the city cleaned up. NYC again became a good tourist destination. I think SF could do the same thing. At least until the homeless & crime crowd outnumber the others. Only then would all hope be lost.
- Flatcircle 3y ago[flagged]
- rdtsc 3y agoWent to a conference there a few years ago and couldn't wait to leave quickly enough. No amount of natural and architectural beauty could make up for the sadness and hopelessness I saw among the homeless people on the street there. Somehow it was more sad on the background of fancy mansions on top of the hills and the rich tech companies. I lived in poor rust-belt areas and in developing countries before, but somehow San Francisco seemed sadder and more depressing than those places.
- SoftTalker 3y agoHave conferences outlived their usefulness? Is it worth the upheaval in routine to travel, stay in hotels, eat overpriced restaurant food, and tolerate the unsavory street environment of most big cities, to sit and listen to a bunch of companies and authors promote their latest products and books? I'm scheduled to go to a conference in October and seriously thinking about canceling, there's really nothing attractive about the idea in any way.
- temp0826 3y agoI can't speak for tech conferences as I haven't been to one in a very long time. I was recently at the Psychedelic Science conference in Denver and it absolutely was useful. There were just too many people from too many different fields that I never would've had a thought to look up or reach out to, that I was constantly acquainting with myself. A great experience imo.
- srj 3y agoThe after party scene at the Psychedelic Science conference must be fun.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 3y agoWithout the fixed cadence of a conference how much technical content do you think will be produced? There are already so few bloggers that the remainder will be heavily skewed towards the self promotion bent.
- blakeburch 3y agoI think the conference format is in need of an overhaul. The only real value in their current state is networking and lead gen for vendors. Everything else is just "Blog Posts, LIVE!" Remote sessions with small gatherings in major cities? Transition to a YouTube channel with consistent weekly live stream talks? A "tour of talks" with multiple city stops? Monthly themed topic events? The existing format has become stale and ineffective. Would love to discuss alternatives with others.
- Tiktaalik 3y agoThe situation in SF shows how much of a network cities are, with pieces relying on others for support. Big downtown conferences rely on a network of hotels and retail and restaurants to support them. The hotels also rely on the retail and restaurants for support. The retail and restaurants rely on constant foot traffic. SF made the subtle mistake of over building commercial office in its downtown, which meant that much of the foot traffic was office workers, and due to circumstance, the bias of office workers was heavily oriented toward the tech sector. As the pandemic hit and office pivoted toward WFH, suddenly all this foot traffic, a requirement for a healthy downtown evaporated. Unfortunately for SF, the bias toward tech is hurting its recovery, as tech in particular seems more likely to let the pandemic WFH status quo continue. Now we're starting to see the network of the healthy downtown unravel as things become untenable for those who rely on foot traffic, and those higher up the chain that require the amenities that rely on foot traffic. No surprise to see conferences start to pull out. In contrast other cities with less tech workers have seen more of a return to the office, and so their downtown life has picked up. As well with cities with more residential downtown, as there's a more resiliant foot traffic mix, we've seen them more easily rebound as well.
- gotaran 3y agoThere’s way too much hindsight bias here though. SF office vacancies were at an all time low in 2019. I knew many founders who were struggling to find office space.
- Tiktaalik 3y agoyeah you can't plan for a once a century pandemic. I think where SF went wrong though was over emphasis of commercial in a single district. They should have known better, but likely didn't want to touch existing residential neighbourhoods at all, so here we are.