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I wouldn't call this a victimless crime. This is putting the vehicle out of service causing a loss of revenue. I consider victimless crimes to be things that co

I wouldn't call this a victimless crime. This is putting the vehicle out of service causing a loss of revenue. I consider victimless crimes to be things that consenting adults choose to do that would not harm anyone else. There is clear harm to the company. Although, I don't disagree with the method of protest.

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
I don't see how a putative loss of revenue causes a victimization here. A victim is an identifiable human being, with the God-given right to life and dignity, who suffers real harm. A multibillion-dollar robotaxi AI company claims to lose a hypothetical $15 fare because their dumbass vehicle is too stupid to move? Not a victim.
- NerdiDotOrg 3y ago
  It's not just 1 fare though and there are real employees and executives and investors in those companies
  - sonicshadow 3y ago
    We did decide that corporations are people after all
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Anyone with a 401k or pension is heavily invested in these businesses, so they are at least victims to these crimes. Having destitute retirees around because the economy didn’t grow enough to support their retirements is a very bad thing.
  - Two4 3y ago
    Anyone who speculates with 401k money on relatively risky tech stocks and startups should either be prevented from gambling with other people's money or should accept the risk to their own money.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Most 401K money is invested in index funds, which include GM, Alphabet, Meta, etc... These aren't victimless crimes, just that the people suffering from them are indirect (economic crimes always have victims).
sonicshadow 3y ago
So should we just start arresting annoying who results in a loss of revenue for a company? I didn’t eat at Carl’s Jr today, should I go to jail?
- veec_cas_tant 3y ago
  This is more akin to disabling their grills so they couldn't sell food
  - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
    Carl's Jr. has several workers and a manager right there to restart the grill and get it working again. These coners are exploiting a simple hack that would ordinarily be nothing but a minor nuisance to a human driver, but it turns into a showstopper for an SDC, because there is no responsible human for dozens of miles around. It disables the car for an inordinate period of time without a realistic mitigation. It's genius!
    - veec_cas_tant 3y ago
      Okay, disabling self-serve gas pumps during off hours at a 24/7 station. Removing a stop sign in the middle of the night. Turning on the faucet in an unoccupied apartment.
      - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
        The ethical difference is that none of your examples stem from an interference in public safety. SDCs are rolling into active shooter zones, they're blocking police, fire, and hydrants, they're actively stalking pedestrians. This is not some random prankery or vandalism, this coning is a non-violent statement in defense of human dignity and rule of law.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]

NoZebra120vClip 3y ago

I don't see how a putative loss of revenue causes a victimization here. A victim is an identifiable human being, with the God-given right to life and dignity, who suffers real harm. A multibillion-dollar robotaxi AI company claims to lose a hypothetical $15 fare because their dumbass vehicle is too stupid to move? Not a victim.

NerdiDotOrg 3y ago
It's not just 1 fare though and there are real employees and executives and investors in those companies
- sonicshadow 3y ago
  We did decide that corporations are people after all
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Anyone with a 401k or pension is heavily invested in these businesses, so they are at least victims to these crimes. Having destitute retirees around because the economy didn’t grow enough to support their retirements is a very bad thing.
- Two4 3y ago
  Anyone who speculates with 401k money on relatively risky tech stocks and startups should either be prevented from gambling with other people's money or should accept the risk to their own money.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Most 401K money is invested in index funds, which include GM, Alphabet, Meta, etc... These aren't victimless crimes, just that the people suffering from them are indirect (economic crimes always have victims).

sonicshadow 3y ago

So should we just start arresting annoying who results in a loss of revenue for a company? I didn’t eat at Carl’s Jr today, should I go to jail?

veec_cas_tant 3y ago
This is more akin to disabling their grills so they couldn't sell food
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  Carl's Jr. has several workers and a manager right there to restart the grill and get it working again. These coners are exploiting a simple hack that would ordinarily be nothing but a minor nuisance to a human driver, but it turns into a showstopper for an SDC, because there is no responsible human for dozens of miles around. It disables the car for an inordinate period of time without a realistic mitigation. It's genius!
  - veec_cas_tant 3y ago
    Okay, disabling self-serve gas pumps during off hours at a 24/7 station. Removing a stop sign in the middle of the night. Turning on the faucet in an unoccupied apartment.
    - NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
      The ethical difference is that none of your examples stem from an interference in public safety. SDCs are rolling into active shooter zones, they're blocking police, fire, and hydrants, they're actively stalking pedestrians. This is not some random prankery or vandalism, this coning is a non-violent statement in defense of human dignity and rule of law.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]