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We make the world's best baby car seats. https://www.kioma.us https://www.kioma.us Fatherly Magazine calls it "The Car Seat of the Future". It's been crash t
by aquaphile 3y ago
We make the world's best baby car seats. https://www.kioma.us https://www.kioma.us Fatherly Magazine calls it "The Car Seat of the Future". It's been crash tested, flight inversion tested, flammability tested and mom tested. It is full of patented innovations to make kids safer and parenting more enjoyable.
It required lots of material science, production techniques, supply chain adjustments, and a surprising amount of software (to model dynamic stress, and to run the robot and CNC trim paths). Once you get to the point you can clearly articulate your BOM and Specs to a manufacturer for MOQ=50, things get a lot easier. At the prototype stage we built everything ourselves, but now we use OEM manufacturers.
- the_svd_doctor 3y agoLooks nice and easy to clean. I don't know why the regular "Target car seats" have so many creases and folded layers, it's a major PITA to clean :)
- bombcar 3y agoSome are better than the Target basic ones, but even the "good" ones are way too complicated to clean, and it's like they've never even considered a kid might barf whilst in one, and some of the effluent will disappear into some weird crevice never to be revealed again.
- aquaphile 3y agoThanks! All the cushions are removable (velcro) so you can hit it with a hose and separately wash the cushions. The interior chassis surface is smooth, which is a big point of pride for us as it is easier to clean.
- qingcharles 3y agoThis feature is totally underrated in industrial design. I've had to clean many fridges over my years and every time I find horrible black mold in all sorts of crevices caused by poor design decisions and decisions based solely on cost.
- rootusrootus 3y agoFor anyone else who doesn't know off hand what MOQ stands for... BOM: bill of materials, aka list of what it takes to manufacture a product MOQ: minimum order quantity, the lower limit the manufacturer will accept
- sbrother 3y agoThese look amazing, like they solve all the pain points I've had with car seats over the past five years. I'm a little past that stage now but wish these had been around when I had little babies.
- aquaphile 3y agoThanks!
- esalman 3y agoI am a bit skeptical dad but damn these look nice! The price is justifiable, although personally I'd hesitate because the seat is only good for about 2 years, and the seat seems to weigh higher than Nuna products which we got.
- huskyperv 3y agoMore like 18 months or less based on the height and weight limit, completely impractical pricing
- dumpster_fire 3y agoYou totally underestimate how much baby fever tax first time parents are willing to pay using the logic "once in a lifetime only".
- esalman 3y agoThis is exactly what I meant when I said the price is justifiable. It is designed to be advertised as a premium product to an exclusive set of customers.
- foooorsyth 3y agoLots of couples stair-step their kids. It’s not 18 months for a lot of families. It’s 4-6 years with hand-me-downs.
- remote_phone 3y agoBaby seats have expiration dates and it’s scary how many parents fall for the emotional manipulation around that. It makes the used car seat market dead as well as hand-me-downs
- foooorsyth 3y ago>it’s scary how many parents fall for the emotional manipulation around that Are you saying that the expiration dates are bogus? I knew that rated sports helmets and similar products had expirations, but not car seats. Maybe I'll go check the handed-down seat my son is using...
- sgt 3y agoWe also have a baby seat that can pretty much say all the same things. There must be tons of these on the market with swivel etc. What makes this better than the rest?
- aquaphile 3y ago1. Safety (* see below) 2. Ease of Installation (* see below) 3. Bauhaus Design 4. 1-Hand Operation 5. Ease of Cleaning 6. Built in Rocker (a full one) 7. Quiet (* see below) * Safety > The US regs are pass/fail so lots of seats on the market have mediocre test scores that don't reflect the real danger of severe concussions. For those of you interested in digging into the obscure world of Head Injury Criterion: greater than 390 HIC is linked with severe concussions (Source: Proposed limits for HIC From Kleinberger et al., 1998, and Eppinger et al., 2000.) Kioma seats do a number of things (crumple zones, etc) to create a lower (better) HIC score. By comparison some of the top sellers in the industry are at 600+ HIC. * Installation > The regs don't have standards that really address this, but the incredible complexity of legacy car seats has led to a lot of installation errors by parents and caregivers. This can lead to some really unpleasant outcomes and injuries. We designed KIOMA to minimize use and installation errors by making things as simple and intuitive as possible. This seat is optimized for lap belt use only (no base required). The companion base has a number of innovations too that make it intuitive and easier to use. * Quiet > There are no clicking or snapping or button parts that wake a sleeping child (with the exception of the harness buckle). This is the quietest baby car seat made.
- tobz 3y agoRegarding safety, do you have any links around the test results for the Kioma, or other car seats? You've mentioned a lot about the safety scores/test results in comparison to other car seats, but I couldn't seem to find a single mention of that stuff on the website? I also tried to see if something like Consumer Reports had a review of a Kioma car seat (either the current one or the carbon fiber one) but they had nothing.
- aquaphile 3y ago
- Solvency 3y agoOk, I'll bite. I don't want to expose my child to exotic glues, adhesives, PFAS, or any other foreign molecules in their car seat. How does your product stack up?
- gambiting 3y agoWhy are you driving them inside a car that has literally all of these in the first place then?
- fsckboy 3y agoGP's asking a legitimate question about chemical outgassing etc. Parents have concerns like this, and some parents more than others. let me go pedantic and teach: "The customer is always right" does not mean that no matter what a customer says, you give them a false smile, and pretend you agree with them. "The customer is always right" means "you are hearing actual feedback from your target audience; somebody giving attention to your product is experiencing friction and wants information or reassurance, and is taking the time to let you know" Do you know how valuable that is? Most people exposed to your product (ads, PR, etc.) just move along. Customers who don't like your product generally just disappear. Free market research should not be ignored. This customer is not only right, but is representative of a whole class of customers that you need to learn to win over.
- gambiting 3y ago>>GP's asking a legitimate question about chemical outgassing etc. Parents have concerns like this, and some parents more than others. Obviously, and outgassing happens a lot in any car especially if it's brand new. So I'll ask again - why drive kids in a car at all if this concerns them this much?
- lijok 3y ago>> why drive kids in a car at all if this concerns them this much? Because they have to Genuinely confused what stance you're taking here
- bigdict 3y agoDo you use these for your children?
- aquaphile 3y agoYes, but my kids have outgrown them. When my son outgrew his seat, he sometimes still used it as a rocking chair to read his books in his room.
- gambiting 3y agoThe price is insane man. The best of the best car seat according to lots of reviews(Cybex Anoris-T) is "only" £599, your thing is significantly more and I don't see why it's any better. Edit: sorry, let me rephrase that - not insane, just hard to justify.
- lotsofpulp 3y agoI am always entertained by the extra amount people are willing to pay for the tiniest bit of risk reduction (or appearance thereof) for baby and kid related products. For example, paying an extra $900 for a car seat, but then taking the kid on unnecessary car rides, which are magnitudes riskier than not taking the kid in a car. If you are willing to pay that much for such an immaterial decrease in risk, surely you should avoid taking the kid in a car unless absolutely necessary. Although, I guess some of it is also showing what you can afford.
- reaperman 3y agoAnd some of it is buying convenience. The peace of mind from knowing you have the safest seat allows risking more rides which frees up impromptu errand scheduling. Whether the math actually works out is orthogonal to the psychological effects.
- Cyberdog 3y agoWhat counts as an unnecessary car ride for you? If I'm going to the grocery store and there's someone else to watch my toddler, I don't need to take her with me, but I think the bit of stimulation of getting out of the house and seeing a new place, new experience, and new people has a benefit that outweighs the almost inconsequential odds of a major car accident as I drive there and back on roads with a speed limit of 35 MPH.
- mrb 3y agoIt's about convenience. Refraining from taking certain car rides to reduce the risk is inconvenient. But for a wealthy customer, there is no difference between buying car seat A or B, but if A is $900 more and slightly safer, it's logical and just as convenient to choose it.
- jebarker 3y ago"Mom tested" might not be the best thing to say if you want moms to buy your product
- sitkack 3y agoThe strap is a single point of failure. Each mount should be attached to the seat brackets individually. Those brackets need to be braced and not just bolted through plywood. Having patents on innovations is necessary, but if you have innovations that will save kids lives, you should find a way to make those broadly usable by all. https://patents.google.com/patent/US10967762B2/en?oq=10967762 https://patents.google.com/patent/US10967762B2/en?oq=1096776... This this TOS usual for a piece of regulated safety equipment? Terms of service The legalese. The KIOMA Car Seat is provided “as-is, where-is,” without representations, conditions or warranties of any kind, whether express or implied, including, but not limited to, warranties of merchantability or fitness for a particular purpose. The recipient or buyer is solely responsible for determining the appropriateness of using the KIOMA Car Seat.
- xeonmc 3y ago[flagged]
- bbor 3y agoDon’t think that’s fair - unless they’re selling them out of a boat in international waters to avoid regulation
- aquaphile 3y agoNot sure what you are referring to about a strap being a single point of failure. Patents > We don't work for free, and we can't buy groceries by giving away years of R&D. Companies are welcome to license our safety innovations, and they know how to reach us. The invitation to do so is on our website. TOS > Kioma seats come with an industry standard 1 year warranty. The website TOS are different than the product warranty that comes with each seat. Thanks for the heads up though. I'll have the marketing team clarify that.
- gizmo 3y ago“We don’t give years of R&D away for free” is a pretty flippant response. You make money selling car seats, and if another company can produce better seats at a lower price then consumers win and lives are saved. Which is ostensibly exactly what you want to happen? Otherwise why even be in the car seat business?
- MagicMoonlight 3y agoIt looks just like a regular one. When the special features are plastic and foam that doesn't scream high quality to me. Why not make one that's solid steel and can tank a direct hit from a bus? You could make some really funny advertisements with crash test dummies.
- aquaphile 3y agoI like your sense of humor. The engineers used to jokingly call this the "Orphanator -- the seat so safe only the kids survive the crash." Our marketing people told us to leave the ideas to them.... In a collision, rigidity is actually the enemy. A well designed seat should never be reusable after a crash because all the materials yielded to dump energy. It is better to have energy diverted into stretching, bending, and breaking materials than have it channeled into a baby's body. We don't use steel (except for one rod), but we do use a lot of 5000 series machined aluminum which is powder-coated. Aluminum is preferable because it is better for creating crumple zones where the materials yield. The other primary material we use is polycarbonate because it has fantastic impact resistance (polycarbonate is used in "bullet-proof glass"). I'll let the marketing team know their materials description failed to impress you :)
- V__ 3y agoWill you sell in Europe and does tha car base have an isofix mounting?
- aquaphile 3y ago1. Yes, it has an Isofix mounting which in the US is called "Latch". 2. We cannot currently sell directly into Europe, though we'd love to at some point. If you're a distributor please drop me a line!
- sergiotapia 3y agoThere's zero videos on your website, and zero videos of it on youtube. As someone in the market for this that's the first thing I checked. Get some videos up on Tiktok as well!
- aquaphile 3y agoI'll add it to the marketing team's todo list. Thanks for the heads up!
- bbor 3y agoJust gonna throw this out there - your pitch is awesome, and “mom tested” put me off. Maybe I’m just a Californian but “parent tested” is a bit more 2023
- aquaphile 3y agoGreat feedback. Thank you! I'll pass it on to the marketing team.
- Jun8 3y agoOne big problem with all car seats is that after 3-4 you have to dump an expensive and still usable seat. And I mean dump, since they cannot be donated AFAIK. It would be great if the seat can be disassembled to be used for another purpose.
- aquaphile 3y ago<sarcasm> Think of the dollar cost amortization! You need to have more children to average down the cost. So you can use the car seat across 3-4 kids. </sarcasm> In all seriousness, the problem with donations is people are afraid of attached liability. It is a shame, because car seats can often be used for several years across multiple children. If you keep it in the family and use it across your own kids, everyone is cool with it. As soon as you donate it to someone else, people worry about liability. I know it isn't much solace, but we try to minimize use of non-recyclable material. The 5 pounds of aluminum in a Kioma car seat is recyclable and will net about $4.00 at current Al spot rates. So you could disassemble it.
- EzTargut 3y agoThere's probably a business model around refurbishing the "core" of the car seat. Take it back, run it through a CMM to make sure it's not been in any again impacts, then resell as a refurb or 2nd life unit with new padding and absorb the liability. A $600-$700 upcycled unit would be appealing. Or offer re-certification as a service. CSaaS
- SkyPuncher 3y agoI know it’s easy to be critical, but I want to provide feedback. That placement into the base looks difficult and frustrating. I see two main issues. 1. That clearly requires the installer to apply non-trivial force to lock it into place. Beyond it being awkward, a Graco Keyfit is a drop in, no force install. Amazing. 2. In most vehicles, fire-aft distance is a huge, limiting factor. It seems difficult, if not impossible to tell if the seat has latched into the correct position, without additional tilt. The Keyfit base makes this obvious since it will not latch into place at incorrect angles.
- aquaphile 3y agoFeedback is always welcome. Thanks for checking it out! I may botch the response to your points, but I'll give it a try below. Force > To use the base, yes some force is required. In our opinion, you want force to prevent false-positives on latching. False positives are a big problem with bases, as people perceive latching to have occurred when it actually has not. Visual latching indictors are not sufficient, in my opinion. Our experience and design encourages audio, visual, and tactile feedback to minimize misunderstandings and false positives. Please note that while a base is convenient (people like the quick click-in, click-out of bases) it is not needed. You can just use the seat belt. Roll with whatever you prefer. Personally, I just use the seat belt. Fire-aft> I have no idea what you mean by "fire-aft distance". But it sounds like you are worried about angles. We designed the seat to encourage good angles at rest, whether with the lap belt alone or with the companion base. Most automotive seats have a 5-10 degree upward angle. A rear-facing infant car seat should be resting in place at no lower than a 30 degree angle, and no higher than a 45 degree angle. If you go too high it increases choking risk but conversely improves the crash test scores. If you go lower it is better for a baby at rest and has less choking risk, but worsens the crash test score as more force is distributed into a smaller area and less rotation of the seat is possible. All this to say, there is a lot of variability across vehicles and seats in a vehicle, and to the best of my knowledge no car seat base accounts for all the permutations well. Regardless, angles are important because babies (especially younger ones) are still developing the muscles that hold up their head and have less head control than it might appear. For the parents out there, the final back angle should be approximately between 30 and 45 degrees as measured from a level plane, but please refer to your seat's user manual for its instructions. In most scenarios and vehicles the Kioma car seat should rest at an approximate 40 degree angle. Competitor Comparison > We try to avoid direct comparisons with other companies, because it makes the lawyers wince. However, while I'm biased, from my personal experience I can say I'd take the Kioma any day over the competitors. There are many reasons we built this product, and none of them included "existing [insert company name] does a great job at this!"
- fersarr 3y agoLooks nice. Is it foldable so that we can carry it on trips abroad?
- malfmalf 3y agoI've read the whole thread , I've looked at your product. It looks good , the materials seem fine , but have nobody heard about ISOFix? At least in europe is standard in new cars. The last baby seat that I used , manufactured by MassiCossi , had a better base than yours, with an adjustable aluminium leg and ISOFix links that kept it sturdly attached to the seat frame. It was not cheap too, around 500 euro I think. It was also removable with the press of a button , from the base and from the trolley Edit: I missed a comment referencing it, then it seems strange to me that a seat sold as somewhat of a luxury item doesn'support that
- aquaphile 3y agoGlad to hear you found the thread interesting. Kioma does provide an Isofix detachable base, but in the U.S. it is called Latch. Same thing, different name. All U.S. infant child restraint systems (CRS) must either have Latch attachments permanently to the CRS or must provide a separate detachable Latch base. So we do provide a Latch base. We don't do a base load-leg though, because there are some cool things done with rotation to dissipate energy :) This is one case where the EU regs specified an implementation rather than a result. Otherwise the EU (r129) regs are very well written.