16 ms·
I would have fired this person as soon as humanly possible for basically (actually) telling customers of the company to go F themselves, and making horribly ins
by constantly 3y ago
I would have fired this person as soon as humanly possible for basically (actually) telling customers of the company to go F themselves, and making horribly insensitive and inappropriate jokes at their expense.
imho the point of this article seems to be to tell the story where big bad VMWare or the target of VMWare’s employee’s ire stomped on poor VMWare employee, but I think it makes the employee look bad. I would absolutely not hire this person based on this post. Work isn’t the right time to be attacking people on a personal level.
- squeaky-clean 3y agoIt makes them look so bad. Also that bit about their friend live-tweeting the private meeting with the VP??! I had to scroll up and check this wasn't fiction.
- ralfd 3y agoAnd did I understand it right, that the first “witness” who “lightly live tweeted” didn’t even work there?
- WheatMillington 3y agoTotally agree. The author seems so incredibly obnoxious and insufferable, I don't understand how anyone could work with them. This should have been a lesson on the toxic and pointless nature of social media, but the author seems to have misread the situation entirely.
- oefrha 3y agoAll the fist bumps and cheers in these social media echo chambers won’t help them reflect. Unlike the OP who casually tagged some tech guy on Twitter and said “I’d shake your hand but the blood never washes off” (what the actual fuck), reasonable people won’t engage them on social media and tell them how incredibly toxic they are.
- Apocryphon 3y agoIt would seem that the legal vindication from the NLRB decision on non-disparagement clauses is the true victory.
- bbor 3y ago[flagged]
- yakshaving_jgt 3y agoIn what way is the US military analogous to Nazi Germany? Spoiler alert: It isn't. And I'm sure I'm far from the only person here who's near relatives died in the holocaust, so this little bit of rhetoric you're employing is grossly offensive.
- HydianSnake1 3y ago[flagged]
- oefrha 3y agoYou don’t need to invoke “some people”, I happen to find the U.S. military immoral, and you can find posts supporting that from my comment history right on this site. Still, this person displayed unbelievable lack of judgement by posting like that to a speaker of their employer’s conference, and it crossed at least two more lines beyond the simple “fuck you” preceding it.
- SergeAx 3y agoRight now the US military tech, created with k8s among other components, is used by Ukrainian army to fight Putin invasion. Where this fact sits on your (im)morality scale?
- gdy 3y agoYou mean used by these guys? [0][1] Where do they sit on your morality scale? [2][3][4] [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols... [1] http://cup.columbia.edu/book/from-the-fires-of-war/9783838215082 http://cup.columbia.edu/book/from-the-fires-of-war/978383821... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ukraine-hasbetter-heroes-than-this-friend-of-fascism/2022/07/07/77a14454-fdb2-11ec-b39d-71309168014b_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ukraine-hasbetter-he... [3] https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-row-over-holocaust-history-israel-and-poland-issue-joint-critique-of-ukraine/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-row-over-holocaust-history-... [4] https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-tells-israel-to-stay-out-of-debate-about-honoring-nazi-collaborators/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/ukraine-tells-israel-to-stay-o...
- wenger12 3y ago[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- random_kris 3y agoIndeed couldn't agree more
- js98 3y agoAgreed. Being technically right isnt the only thing which matters in an employer/employee context. They (the employee) represent the company
- wiseowise 3y agoThey’re not even technically right. Leave your edgy fursona (is that how they call it?) to your personal life.
- morelisp 3y ago> VMware is committed to harnessing the power of human difference by enabling a workplace where we can all be proud to be our authentic selves.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- wiseowise 3y agoWhat’s your point?
- bitwize 3y ago[flagged]
- wiseowise 3y ago> If you cannot deal with people bringing their true identities to the job, you are free to choose another industry to work in. I don’t know, looks like VMWare found another way to deal with it.
- Apocryphon 3y agoThey dealt with problematic tweets, not an "edgy fursona."
- parineum 3y agoYeah, I thought the same thing. Like, yeah, the guy was being thin-skinned and over reactive but publicly accusing your employer's client of war crimes should get you fired. If you're upset that your employer is dealing with these people, quit. Work for someone you don't hate.
- morelisp 3y ago> publicly accusing your employer's client of war crimes What other factual statements should you not be allowed to make about your employer's clients?
- clnq 3y agoIt’s very clear that in the interest of business, those statements should not be made by an employee. They are free to make these claims in a way that doesn’t damage the business. Like a second personal Twitter account.
- michaelt 3y ago> They are free to make these claims in a way that doesn’t damage the business. Like a second personal Twitter account. Are they, though? I mean, presumably they were posting from a personal account to begin with. Just how separate would a second account have to be - Is it enough to just say all opinions are their own, and only post on their own time? Could they use their own name? What about an online handle they'd used before, if a highly motivated doxxer could possibly identify their employer?
- parineum 3y agoIf you read the rest of my comment, I don't actually have a problem with accusing people of war crimes. I think it's assinine to think one could do so and hope to continue to be paid by those people though. I would think that someone so ready to stand on this moral high ground wouldn't want that money but I guess when it actually comes to backing up her morals, she'll take the money instead.
- eusto 3y ago"I go to conferences and I say 'Fuck you!' to presenters, but I tweet a lot so I thought nothing of it".
- smsm42 3y agoAlso when HR approaches me about it, I tell them their rules are stupid, but I am willing to educate them and show them how to write the correct rules, if they ask nicely.
- nik736 3y agoIt's also super unnecessary to tweet like that. No one wins.
- wiseowise 3y agoThe company won. Good riddance.
- magicalhippo 3y agoReminded me of that bar scene from Trainspotting where he throws a pint into the crowd from the balcony above, then goes down asking which idiot threw the pint... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUZyNLZZjMs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUZyNLZZjMs
- re-thc 3y agoTwitter wins. More traffic! Got to rate limit.
- raverbashing 3y agoThis is what people don't realize Your "hot takes" for the most part (especially when they're basically cheap dunks) on SM help only twitter. There's plenty of criticism that can be done about the parts mentioned, but those tweets are pretty much the definition of heckling. Honestly nobody cares, and nobody is there for that
- bitwize 3y agoThe Great Banality Laser -- working as designed.
- newaccount74 3y agoIf you fire someone for a few insults on Twitter then you belong in Kindergarten, not in a management position. Boy, I'm so happy I don't work for anyone, I'd hate to have to deal with sensitive pricks that think they can dictate what their employees say on social media.
- seanthemon 3y agoI'm curious, as a self-employeed worker, do you find freedom in saying "fuck you" to your clients publically online?
- grimgoldgo 3y agoThere's a great Mike Monteiro talk about contracting titled, "Fuck you; Pay me", so yes, it's not unheard of at all.
- wiseowise 3y agoI’d like to see you actually using this as a sales pitch to your client.
- Apocryphon 3y agoHilariously enough, here's some blog thought leader who's telling founders to do so as an exercise while writing up their pitch decks: https://www.alexanderjarvis.com/the-pitch-deck-fuck-you-list/ https://www.alexanderjarvis.com/the-pitch-deck-fuck-you-list... > What is the fuck you list? Simply put, it’s what you tell Billy Bob to get him to shut the fuck up, and as someone who hates you, still make him think what you are doing actually makes sense. > The fuck you list are 3-5 key points about why your business is amazing and you are going to win. They are the important points you would feel annoyed for having not conveyed when you leave that big meeting with the investor you really want to close. We have arrived at peak HN.
- grimgoldgo 3y agoYou and I roll in very different circles. I've had clients who told me to go fuck myself (and vice versa) without any real damage to our relationship. A New Yorker using the expression is just frankly a different reading than a Washington DC type.
- rewmie 3y ago> (...) but I think it makes the employee look bad. The fact that the author claimed brought a third party to a work-related meeting with a VP with the purpose of live tweeting it to the world already speaks volumes.
- bigbacaloa 3y agoYou are a typical employer unfortunately. Thin skin and no morals.
- jossclimb 3y agoEngineers with unicorn / my little pony avatars is a slight red flag to me. I am as socialist as they come (I am not even American, I am Brit and a left wing), but I always try to not engage with those folks on twitter, to easy to get caught up in personal attacks if anything you say is remotely misunderstood. It can quite easily turn into a digital lynching.
- revelio 3y ago[flagged]
- mbaraa 3y agoThis is why many hiring managers these days have a covert policy to never hire any of these people, they can absolutely ruin a team, become a management nightmare and have a high chance of causing reputational damage. Even though in larger companies there is often a diversity drive to increase their number. It's just not worth the risk of hiring from this cohort.
- hsjqllzlfkf 3y agoAre anime people the same as the pronoun people? I'm aware there's an overlap but I'm not sure it's significant.
- xena 3y agoHi, I use pony/anime/furry avatars at work and my blog is loved on this website for its technical content and innovative use of the Socratic method. People like me exist.
- ben_w 3y agoI'm not a free speech absolutist[0], but if there's one speech one ought to be free to do, it's to write mean things about a government body (or deals with one) in a country that has a constitutional right to free speech. [0] neither is the US, despite what it says; I am however a free-speech maximalist, and the differences between these positions includes but is not limited to acknowledging that some speech chills other speech.
- jossclimb 3y agoshe has free speech, and they are free to fire her too.
- eusto 3y agoI'm assuming the "fuck you" was the one that fired her. However you choose to understand free speech, being needlessly rude as a media representative of a company should get you fired.
- ben_w 3y agoAssuming accurate reporting, in the absence of a social media clause that, when shown, your boss agrees you don't need to sign? Doesn't pass the sniff test. (Curiously, I've just seen someone walk past me with "duck off" printed on their T-shirt. But then, culture here in Germany is much more liberal about both word and deed — it's American cultural norms that made the autocorrupt inside my quote marks).
- eusto 3y agoI don't understand. What sniff test? And what do you mean by "assuming accurate reporting"?
- libealistand 3y agoGiven the tweets and the article, it's fair to assume that this is not the first time the person has exhibited such behavior and this was just the last drip overflowing the bucket.
- 3y ago
- kome 3y agoI don't know anything about this person, but I would definitely hire them just because of this story! I like this kind of ppl and i dislike bootlickers, suckers and ppl without a spine
- janejeon 3y ago> I don't know anything about this person, but I would definitely hire them just because of this story! I like this kind of ppl and i dislike bootlickers, suckers and ppl without a spine There's a difference between being a "bootlicker" and being extremely unprofessional (to the nth degree).
- DaSHacka 3y agoYou'd hire someone you barely know because you like their political opinions? You'd be doing them more of a disservice than anything, as clearly your business will go under before the year's end and they'd be stuck finding a better job.
- Apocryphon 3y agoIt's a management style, according to Wharton Prof. Adam Grant- https://qz.com/1041113/a-wharton-professor-explains-why-hiring-nonconformists-is-essential-to-any-companys-future https://qz.com/1041113/a-wharton-professor-explains-why-hiri...
- kome 3y agoit's not just political opinions, it's voicing them - living by your own values
- scns 3y agoWell, i have to concur, but there is always two parties in a conflict. And in this case the other party looks even worse [0]. Would hire neither. [0] https://www.oxebridge.com/emma/op-ed-usafs-chaillan-knausenberger-must-resign-over-suspected-ethics-violations/ https://www.oxebridge.com/emma/op-ed-usafs-chaillan-knausenb... [edit] WAY worse! Intellectual Property Theft, Gifting Officials, Misuse of Position, Abuse, “Sabotage” of Competing Platforms, Improper Contract Award, Misappropriation of Funds Zero excuse for the behaviour of the tweeter though.
- lelanthran 3y agoI thought the other party in this case was the employer?
- scns 3y agoThe presenter at the conference beein accused of war crimes.
- bsder 3y ago> I would have fired this person as soon as humanly possible for basically (actually) telling customers of the company to go F themselves, and making horribly insensitive and inappropriate jokes at their expense. OP does mention that they were with VMWare only by acquisition. Do I think that OP should have done this? No. Do I think they deserve to be fired over this? No. This is the standard chastise them for being an idiot and get back to work. The problem here was a high-ranking Federal bureaucrat (USAF Chief Software Officer) got his knickers in a twist and rattled VMWare management who should have told him to go pound sand. And, personally, even though I don't find the OP sympathetic, I'm glad this story came out as the bureaucrat in question should absolutely be named and shamed so other companies won't capitulate to him being a snot. Anybody with skin that thin shouldn't be allowed any amount of power, ever.
- lelanthran 3y ago> The problem here was a high-ranking Federal bureaucrat (USAF Chief Software Officer) got his knickers in a twist and rattled VMWare management who should have told him to go pound sand. How do you know that? Nothing in that article suggests there is even the smallest shred of evidence that the bureaucrat in question applied any pressure.
- Apocryphon 3y agoIt's not court-admissible evidence, but there was the DM (https://staging.cohostcdn.org/attachment/c8ab3389-fd41-46b9-bf3d-5ffc81fbabfc/vmwarefederal.png https://staging.cohostcdn.org/attachment/c8ab3389-fd41-46b9-...) and those links at the end of the blog entry about prior misbehavior (https://www.oxebridge.com/emma/oxebridge-files-ethics-complaint-against-usaf-chief-software-officer/ https://www.oxebridge.com/emma/oxebridge-files-ethics-compla...) and (https://www.oxebridge.com/emma/op-ed-usafs-chaillan-knausenberger-must-resign-over-suspected-ethics-violations/ https://www.oxebridge.com/emma/op-ed-usafs-chaillan-knausenb...).
- lelanthran 3y agoYour [1] is pure hearsay, no different from gossip, and it's coming from one side. It's unlikely to be true, and even if true, unlikely to have resulted in pressure on the employer. Both [2] and [3] aren't about this story at all.
- Osmose 3y ago> basically Unfortunately it's not basic; the ability to strip all context to make this about being mean to a customer makes for a poor argument. The government isn't just _any_ customer, whether you think the firing was justified or not. The DoD enjoys a ton of taxpayer budget money and a sanctioned right to kill people if it deems it necessary. And it was proactively recruiting at a tech conference for software that isn't innately violent. Is that bad? Maybe not, maybe so. Is that a basic customer? Not at all. Is this really only about criticizing the government at work? If she made the tweet off hours or wasn't even at the conference, does Nicholas Chaillan still complain to VMWare and get her fired? When is it okay for her to criticize the government without losing her job? Would it even have cost VMWare anything if they didn't fire her and just disciplined her? How about the social media policy that bans talking about incredibly generic things like "age, sex, race, religion"? Has anyone at VMWare ever gotten disciplined for tweeting out "Jesus lives"? I think your reduction to "employees must never tell any customer ever to go fuck themselves and that's basically what happened here" isn't useful nor is it one of the more interesting questions this post raises.
- Shaanie 3y agoThe comments were personal attacks on the speaker, not aimed at the government or the military. There's a huge difference between those. If the engineer had posted something criticizing the military outside of the context of the conference and without personally attacking the speaker, nothing would have happened. In fact, I bet the engineer had already done that multiple times before.
- preezer 3y agoJep, I thought the same.