26 ms·

Are you aware of how privileged you are?

tomrod 3y ago
When discussing with someone, proper manners enlightens a discussant to avoid painting them into a proverbial corner, since such is a negative interaction. From what I read, the person worked their tush off to get through a graduate program, then pushed for more money in a career. What aspect of this do you find privileging? Working their tush off? Pushing for opportunities? A small set of comments online tells one nothing about the background of a person, unless one actively looks for dog whistles and shibboleths.
- lumiukko 3y ago
  It appeared they rant about how "doing all the things in life later" was the biggest drawback and continues to contradict the point by providing a timeline that places them at 33yo with all of the listed life goals achieved, starting with a graduation (I assume by the context, with a PhD, at 27). Some of such life goals are not even achievable for some. It sounds like a simple attempt to humble-brag. Assuming that they worked their tush off or pushed for opportunities also sounds coming from some privileged background, as it seems to assume that hard work and proper initiative would be sufficient in achieving such things, while for some people the first guard is already getting the necessary elementary education, while being in a stable and safe environment.
  - tomrod 3y ago
    Paradoxically it is privileged to think that people who didn't get sufficient, necessary elementary education yet did bust their tushes to succeed in academia don't exist in sufficient quantity to be seen on a high traffic internet board. Rather than looking at your neighbor's privilege, it's better to introspect on our own and how we can use to for others.
    - calf 3y ago
      > Rather than looking at your neighbor's privilege, it's better to introspect on our own and how we can use to for others. Then why don't you tell that to the other guy who openly complained about a PhD time-shifting their life plans???
      - tomrod 3y ago
        Because I don't view that as privilege. I view that as goals accomplished, which _may_ have been influenced by privilege.
latency-guy2 3y ago
Do you have anything specific to add to the conversation? Immediately starting off taking away things is a not so good start.
akomtu 3y ago
Unless the law grants him special permissions that others dont have, he is not privileged.
- tomrod 3y ago
  I called out the prior comment already, but this also needs to be called out. There are more channels for privilege than special permission in the law. Social mores, law, and luck in birth are the three channels from which privilege can elevate someone's starting point over someone else. I think limiting the source of privilege to only legal permissions misses the discussion, either disingenuously or naively.
calf 3y ago
Not only privileged (in terms of outcome and socioeconomic status of a post-PhD career and family), but also rather ideological. The person you asked the question to casually equates "life things" with family, house, career. It's surprisingly a conservative worldview, and IMO a PhD should expand a person's thinking more deeply than to accept ideology that way. To me this says a modern PhD education is too careerist and subverts the purpose of it, and some professors have pointed this out as well.
- lumost 3y ago
  It’s arguably an artifact of an increasingly competitive society. The base “cost” of existing keeps rising, its simply becoming impractical to not be career focused. While I’m sure it benefits professors to have an idealistic employe who will work for peanuts… it’s not sustainable. While a grad student is expected to be paid - they would need a 1 hour commute to afford the housing options around my rural alma matter.
  - calf 3y ago
    That cynicism is the basis of every form of conservative argument, of the form: "It is not practical/sustainable/expedient/pragmatic/realistic...(insert any other uncritical value judgment)... and the problem is because of hypercompetitive capitalism out there, not the agency of particular individuals (some who succeed and many who shall fail under said system that is source of unsustainability) who are speaking and acting right here." It is a clever, cynical argument that reinforces status-quo thinking about the social order, and is therefore a conservative response.
    - lumost 3y ago
      Hmm I wouldn’t associate this with a conservative argument. The argument provides a claim that we are building an unsustainable system which is not producing the outcomes that we want. Encouraging competition and unrestrained capitalism is typically considered a defacto conservative argument in the US. However the lines are blurry in different decades and in different countries.
alienicecream 3y ago
Why not just be happy for them? Does bringing them down bring everyone else up or is that maybe just a second best you're willing to settle for out of spite?
- lumiukko 3y ago
  I am truly happy for them, but I would like to see that this is placed in the appropriate context for this public forum. From an international viewpoint, this is the exception, not the norm. "Ranting" about a rather exceptional life path seems misplaced, without providing additional context.
  - alienicecream 3y ago
    Why would that need to be placed "in the appropriate context"? How does that help anyone who is worse off?
    - lumiukko 3y ago
      Because they are stating this story as something negative, some drawback. Perhaps it is, for them, but that's where the context and perspective should come in. To me it sounds like an incredible success story. Most people I know, me included, don't have any of those things, although some are well on their list of goals. Having achieved all of them at that young age is a privilege, maybe also due to privilege (I don't know), but certainly not a burden or drawback.
      - alienicecream 3y ago
        How about just let them enjoy their success and strive to achieve your own instead of policing it?
janalsncm 3y ago
I actually don’t understand the idea of privilege. Things like having two loving parents, a stable household, and good health are seen as privileged. There’s an underlying assumption that people should feel bad for having nice things because some people don’t have them. But aren’t these just things we should be trying to provide for everyone? Privilege is the dividend of running a successful society, a reflection that we aren’t in a constant state of nature.

When discussing with someone, proper manners enlightens a discussant to avoid painting them into a proverbial corner, since such is a negative interaction. From what I read, the person worked their tush off to get through a graduate program, then pushed for more money in a career. What aspect of this do you find privileging? Working their tush off? Pushing for opportunities? A small set of comments online tells one nothing about the background of a person, unless one actively looks for dog whistles and shibboleths.

lumiukko 3y ago
It appeared they rant about how "doing all the things in life later" was the biggest drawback and continues to contradict the point by providing a timeline that places them at 33yo with all of the listed life goals achieved, starting with a graduation (I assume by the context, with a PhD, at 27). Some of such life goals are not even achievable for some. It sounds like a simple attempt to humble-brag. Assuming that they worked their tush off or pushed for opportunities also sounds coming from some privileged background, as it seems to assume that hard work and proper initiative would be sufficient in achieving such things, while for some people the first guard is already getting the necessary elementary education, while being in a stable and safe environment.
- tomrod 3y ago
  Paradoxically it is privileged to think that people who didn't get sufficient, necessary elementary education yet did bust their tushes to succeed in academia don't exist in sufficient quantity to be seen on a high traffic internet board. Rather than looking at your neighbor's privilege, it's better to introspect on our own and how we can use to for others.
  - calf 3y ago
    > Rather than looking at your neighbor's privilege, it's better to introspect on our own and how we can use to for others. Then why don't you tell that to the other guy who openly complained about a PhD time-shifting their life plans???
    - tomrod 3y ago
      Because I don't view that as privilege. I view that as goals accomplished, which _may_ have been influenced by privilege.

latency-guy2 3y ago

Do you have anything specific to add to the conversation? Immediately starting off taking away things is a not so good start.

akomtu 3y ago

Unless the law grants him special permissions that others dont have, he is not privileged.

tomrod 3y ago
I called out the prior comment already, but this also needs to be called out. There are more channels for privilege than special permission in the law. Social mores, law, and luck in birth are the three channels from which privilege can elevate someone's starting point over someone else. I think limiting the source of privilege to only legal permissions misses the discussion, either disingenuously or naively.

calf 3y ago

Not only privileged (in terms of outcome and socioeconomic status of a post-PhD career and family), but also rather ideological. The person you asked the question to casually equates "life things" with family, house, career. It's surprisingly a conservative worldview, and IMO a PhD should expand a person's thinking more deeply than to accept ideology that way. To me this says a modern PhD education is too careerist and subverts the purpose of it, and some professors have pointed this out as well.

lumost 3y ago
It’s arguably an artifact of an increasingly competitive society. The base “cost” of existing keeps rising, its simply becoming impractical to not be career focused. While I’m sure it benefits professors to have an idealistic employe who will work for peanuts… it’s not sustainable. While a grad student is expected to be paid - they would need a 1 hour commute to afford the housing options around my rural alma matter.
- calf 3y ago
  That cynicism is the basis of every form of conservative argument, of the form: "It is not practical/sustainable/expedient/pragmatic/realistic...(insert any other uncritical value judgment)... and the problem is because of hypercompetitive capitalism out there, not the agency of particular individuals (some who succeed and many who shall fail under said system that is source of unsustainability) who are speaking and acting right here." It is a clever, cynical argument that reinforces status-quo thinking about the social order, and is therefore a conservative response.
  - lumost 3y ago
    Hmm I wouldn’t associate this with a conservative argument. The argument provides a claim that we are building an unsustainable system which is not producing the outcomes that we want. Encouraging competition and unrestrained capitalism is typically considered a defacto conservative argument in the US. However the lines are blurry in different decades and in different countries.

alienicecream 3y ago

Why not just be happy for them? Does bringing them down bring everyone else up or is that maybe just a second best you're willing to settle for out of spite?

lumiukko 3y ago
I am truly happy for them, but I would like to see that this is placed in the appropriate context for this public forum. From an international viewpoint, this is the exception, not the norm. "Ranting" about a rather exceptional life path seems misplaced, without providing additional context.
- alienicecream 3y ago
  Why would that need to be placed "in the appropriate context"? How does that help anyone who is worse off?
  - lumiukko 3y ago
    Because they are stating this story as something negative, some drawback. Perhaps it is, for them, but that's where the context and perspective should come in. To me it sounds like an incredible success story. Most people I know, me included, don't have any of those things, although some are well on their list of goals. Having achieved all of them at that young age is a privilege, maybe also due to privilege (I don't know), but certainly not a burden or drawback.
    - alienicecream 3y ago
      How about just let them enjoy their success and strive to achieve your own instead of policing it?

janalsncm 3y ago

I actually don’t understand the idea of privilege. Things like having two loving parents, a stable household, and good health are seen as privileged. There’s an underlying assumption that people should feel bad for having nice things because some people don’t have them. But aren’t these just things we should be trying to provide for everyone? Privilege is the dividend of running a successful society, a reflection that we aren’t in a constant state of nature.