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Are one million people in the UK using anabolic steroids? (2022)
- backtoyoujim 3y ago[flagged]
- nkozyra 3y agoGetting a hair transplant carries a stigma in society, so "accept" could use some qualifiers.
- KSPAtlas 3y agoI've never heard of this stigma myself, can you explain
- dfxm12 3y agoPeople don't get murdered for getting hair transplants & people getting hair transplants aren't being targeted politically, so considering the scale of stigmas associated with gender affirming care, no, I don't think it does.
- nkozyra 3y agoI think you've added context that I didn't write. I'm not saying it's as "unaccepted" in society as, say, HRT for transitioning. Just that it's not accepted and is still a point of derision.
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y agoThis is gender affirming care.
- ravenstine 3y agoI'd be willing to bet a substantial number of these men wouldn't take steroids if society/women didn't reward them for having a chiseled (and often times unnatural) aesthetic, so considering it gender affirming care is a stretch in the general sense.
- LanceH 3y agoThere is the whole feeling younger, stronger, healthier aspect that people really like.
- ravenstine 3y agoTaking exogenous steroids is usually contraindicated. Some people will take steroids for other reasons, but a key reason many people work out the gym is for the physique. Speaking as if nobody is going to the gym to look good to other people is a form of denial.
- smcl 3y agoWait now it's "other people" - before you were pretty certain the problem was women
- AbrahamParangi 3y agoGender affirming care actually can include gender-affirming procedures for cisgender people such as reconstructive or cosmetic surgeries. Under that frame I don't see how "I need higher T to feel like a real man" is much different.
- LanceH 3y agoSure, if you want to deliberately conflate different issues.
- pessimizer 3y agoOnly if you think that comparing a trans man who wants to take testosterone to feel more like a man to a biological male who wants to take testosterone to feel more like a man is silly or deceptive.
- pessimizer 3y ago[flagged]
- dang 3y agoPlease don't do this here.
- mrits 3y agoWhat gender? The result of steroids is beneficial to how most men and women would prefer to look. Leaner and more defined bodies.
- pessimizer 3y agoBoth, then. Or all?
- archsurface 3y agoAre you sure? This is the UK (not US), where eg the Tavistock clinic was closed down.
- pjc50 3y agoSeems to be nothing to do with Tavistock, and transmasc people are (perhaps surprisingly) never mentioned in the article. The OP was making the point that "making your body conform to your gender" is also something that cis people can and do do. (By the time it was closed down the queues at the Tavistock were on the order of years, so lots of UK trans people have had to go private at some point)
- archsurface 3y agoEdit: deleted. This topic is too muddled.
- dang 3y ago"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: we already asked you once to stop posting unsubstantive comments and flamebait, and your account has unfortunately continued to do this. We end up having to ban such accounts because this is not what this site is for and destroys what it is for. I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please review the guidelines and stick to them, we'd appreciate it.
- anigbrowl 3y agoIt's not flamebait. This perspective is widespread and discussed with nuance in the fitness community, and also in the medical community, eg https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37285414/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37285414/ It's in no way a controversial or baity observation.
- dang 3y agoIn that case it needed more information to disambiguate from flamebait. Especially since the account has a history thereof.
- anigbrowl 3y agoHave you considered the possibility that many people posting in this thread are sufficiently interested in physical culture to already know about this point of view? Anyone who reads weightlifting forums where steroids are likely to be discussed already encounters this idea on a daily basis. I get that it's a new concept for you, but your assumption was misplaced.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y agoI didn't intend the comment to be taken that way. Also not sure what other comment I made that was considered flamebait. Maybe I missed that being called out or just forgot. Anyway, steroid use is gender affirming care. They're taken by men who perceive themselves as what society has generally considered a man and they want to emphasize those characteristics. I think it's interesting all the discussion lately of gender affirming care but barely see any discussion on cis/heterosexual people taking hormones and undergoing cosmetic procedures to emphasize those gendered physical characteristics. I think there are 4 groups of people who take hormones. 1. Those who take them for competitive advantage in sports 2. Those who take them because a doctor has told them that their body is producing less than it should be 3. Those who take them because they want the physical attributes that goes along with it because of how they identify 4. Biohackers All of those reasons are valid
- nkozyra 3y agoTRT is now a fully embedded thing in the United States so this isn't totally surprising. I've talked to way too many 20 year olds who get cypionate from a doc in the box who manages to find "low T" It's just so easy now. And if you need it, great. But for a lot of people it's just a way to boost T for athletic/aesthetic reasons without a ton of attention to the health side of it. The risks are generally low, but boosting to higher T levels does come with real health risks that should be met with regular testing with a doctor.
- justrealist 3y agoLot of parallels to legal pot here. If the medical community had been more open about the negligible risks of moderate doses, we could have had a real conversation about it and gotten people reasonable supplementation. Instead, the medical community stayed lockstep in calling it unhealthy/illegal and people learned about it from youtube and bb.com forums.
- tayo42 3y agohah i was thinking about trt too when i saw this title. I cant believe how much seemingly casual use it is getting for people to be a little better at their hobbies.
- rcarr 3y ago> I cant believe how much seemingly casual use it is getting for people to be a little better at their hobbies. From my general observations, insecurity is rife in bodybuilding but generally nonexistent in powerlifting and strongman. Powerlifters/strongmen will use steroids for sport performance reasons and they’re generally in the sport because they just like lifting heavy shit. They’re not really comparing themselves to others, just trying to beat their previous PR and they’re generally not doing it to attract women. To an untrained eye they can often times look like a fat dude. In contrast, a lot of bodybuilders are in the sport because they’re insecure and/or want to attract women. I would say the majority of lads training in the gym are really doing it for these two reasons. This is only made worse when they scan the gym and compare the weight they can lift with that of a power lifter who’s often times no where near as big yet capable of lifting more. As a result, you’re far, far more likely to see bodybuilders getting in scraps than powerlifters and strongmen, half because of the testosterone and half because of the insecurity. Sometimes they’ll find the confidence they’re seeking if they get big enough or start getting women but often times not. A lot of them would be better off doing a a martial art or boxing, probably the former as there’s more of a culture of “you only use this in self defence if you absolutely have to” whereas the majority of local street fighters almost always seem to have a boxing background and something to prove.
- klooney 3y ago"Maybe steroid abuse is too common" was my thought after watching a shirtless RFK Jr (69) do pushups the other day.
- seper8 3y agoWow look how cool you are bringing politics into this health issue (which takes place in the UK).
- roamerz 3y agoI’m all for keeping politics out of non political discussions for sure but I don’t see any political connection in using a public figure for an example.
- archsurface 3y agoI guess the political connection is the politician. As opposed to eg the rock.
- anigbrowl 3y agoThat was so weird. Not one good pushup (more bouncing up and down in the middle of the action without ever reaching the top or bottom of the movement) and he struggled to get to 9. He looks fit, but he's not.
- kkielhofner 3y agoLiving in FL (the home of TRT therapy) I’m blown away with what I see regularly at the gym. Like RFK you will regularly (every day) see men in their 60s that have the muscle mass and definition of someone in their 20s. It’s still a lot of hard work, and I’m not calling it cheating, but it’s extremely obvious. There’s a lot of talk of female beauty standards but looking at The Rock, Hugh Jackman, and countless others all the diet and training in the world cannot maintain that physique into their fifties. It’s ridiculous they do interviews and give the classic “broccoli and chicken” line. Personally I’m also skeptical younger actors are able to achieve physiques that are top tier for professional athletes naturally - and often do it in months between roles. Even when they give details of their training (two a days for hours) that’s just not possible at that age without the tremendous improvements in recovery that performance enhancing drugs provide.
- EatingWithForks 3y agoIs there a similar thing for estrogen? What's the estrogen use in the UK and how is it used comparatively?
- mrits 3y agoI don't know about estrogen but I am really surprised that 98% usage are from males. Anecdotally I see an increase usage of steroids in women. The fat burning is incredible.
- bemusedthrow75 3y agoYes. Apparently men using anabolic steroids only outnumber women by a factor of 10:1, which strikes me as kind of low!
- mrits 3y agoWhere did you get 10:1 from?
- bemusedthrow75 3y agoA PDF that I found earlier and then bloomin' lost because I was accidentally in a private browsing window while testing an app logged out... This one I think. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/119132/anabolic-steroids.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... Can't copy and paste from it. Section 6.5. I may have misinterpreted it though to be honest, and I don't have time to get back into it in depth.
- diath 3y agoBecause Testosterone is a bad choice for women if they want to use PEDs, Anavar is a much better option, and Clen is often used for fat burning (although Anavar on its own is really decent for that as well).
- diath 3y ago
- rubicks 3y agoYes, glucocorticoids are extremely effective in the treatment of respiratory inflammation diseases such as asthma and copd. I'm genuinely surprized this number isn't higher. Update: Whoops. Apparently, the submitter neglected to mention "anabolic" in the title. That's a pretty glaring omission.
- Etheryte 3y agoThis was one of the first things addressed in the linked article? > The report refers specifically to the use of anabolic steroids, which can be used to increase muscle mass, and not the use of corticosteroids, which are used to treat a wide range of medical conditions.
- HarryHirsch 3y agoLet's just say that it isn't corticosteroids that 99 % of US cops are on. It wouldn't be the worst idea to have a drug testing regime like truck drivers do. If you can keep truckers off marihuana you can keep cops off anabolic steroids. It would improve the applicant pool, besides anabolic steroids cause bad temper.
- 634636346 3y agoI'm surprised it isn't even higher. TikTok is full of zoomers who haven't even turned 18 yet, and they're already abusing steroids and SARMs. EDIT: I just remembered this article: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/24/why-there-are-more-gym-supplements-in-a-london-fatberg-than-cocaine-and-mdma https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/24/why-ther... > But more surprising was the amount of hordenine and ostarine – described by the programme-makers as often being found in gym supplements, which made up more than half of the pharmaceuticals found. Ostarine is a SARM, and supposedly there was more of that than cocaine or MDMA residue in a London sewer "fatberg."
- nkozyra 3y agoWell this is the UK. Anecdotally I'd guess it's way worse in the US
- dfxm12 3y agoWell, that's the thing, SARMs aren't "steroids" in a technical sense, but are in a colloquial sense. Maybe there's a seemingly low number of people are taking literal anabolic steroids, but are taking other PEDs recreationally instead.
- Etheryte 3y agoFor context, that works out to roughly three quarters of a percent or so of the whole population of the UK.
- jiggywiggy 3y agoYeah but more reasonable to compare it males in a certain age group.
- bemusedthrow75 3y agoIt's less than 2% of all adult males. I would guess that the peak age group for anabolic steroid use is ages 30-40 (that is, end-of-youth crisis not the youngest) but I'd be interested to know for sure. Edit: government data says I am wrong. 25-29, apparently. But that's based on self-reporting so I do wonder.
- expertentipp 3y agoAfter skipping gym for one month I'm losing all muscles and turning into the weakling I am. I'm wondering on every visit "how these guys maintain their muscles?! they must be injecting, inserting, and swallowing some substances... right?"
- nfRfqX5n 3y agoIt’s not that hard to maintain
- expertentipp 3y agoI guess "fattish" or "thick boned" people have it easier...
- r_p4rk 3y agoTo keep muscle all you need to do is counteract the catabolic pressure on lean muscle mass, you can workout your muscle groups at very low intensity 1-2 times a week and eat more in a caloric surplus/maintenance to achieve this.
- anigbrowl 3y agoCan't you just exercise at home? I am naturally skinny but put on muscle by working out diligently at home. I have not been in a gym since high school and I don't own any fancy equipment, just a few bits and pieces that I bought used (bench, pull-up bar) or found on the street (dumbbells). For most calisthenic exercises you don't need any equipment at all.
- agos 3y agoOccam's razor to the rescue: they're not skipping gym, and eating consequently (which I guess falls under "swallowing some substances")
- diath 3y agoThere's absolutely no way a natural will lose all of their gains if they skip the gym for a month, unless you're doing short periods of going to the gym, then not going to the gym (say month on, month off), then at that point you're not really losing muscle, there was not much muscle to begin with, your muscle just became depleted instead, two other explanations could be either being seriously ill, or simply severely undereating for the period of that month to the point that your body cannibalizes itself.
- roschdal 3y agoWhere can I get some?
- Traubenfuchs 3y agoSketchy online websites, sketchy online forums, sketchy people in real life who bought there in bulk. ...or you just find an open minded andrologist who gives you TRT.
- uhtred 3y agocartoon society
- JPws_Prntr_Fngr 3y agoOr a sci-fi society, a la Snow Crash's male teenagers universally juicing themselves to the gills.
- bemusedthrow75 3y agoThis is about 1.8% of adult males, if one starts with a (pretty good) first approximation that essentially all anabolic steroid users are adult males over 18. (I would be really surprised if this figure is higher than the USA, considering the differences in regulation)
- fnord77 3y agoI'm kinda interested in SARMs which purportedly give the benefits of anabolic steroids without the very serious side-effects There seems to be a massive grey market for peptide SARMs at least in the US
- diath 3y agoPlease avoid SARMs only cycles if you can, SARMs will suppress your natural Testosterone production either way, so running a Testosterone base is always recommended, at which point, why even bother with experimental chemicals instead of just running a reasonable T cycle?
- rcarr 3y agoBecause testosterone affects everything, including the heart and other organs, potentially causing serious problems down the line. SARMs only effect skeletal muscle tissue, and so it is likely safer in the long run. Obviously more research is needed on long term effect, but this is primarily why people are using them.
- diath 3y agoThat's not necessarily true, certain SARMs have high liver toxicity, and as I mentioned, /all/ SARMs suppress your natural Testosterone production, meaning you may need other drugs afterwards to be able to bounce back, and you will feel like shit during your SARMs-only cycle when your T levels are very low, I'd say liver toxicity and destroying your natural hormone production are serious problems as well, I feel like the main reason people use SARMs is because they may be scared of injections, and that (since they're mostly popular with younger population), it may be easier for them to explain to their parents if they find random pills/liquids than if they find syringes and needles. I do agree though that more research is needed as they're relatively new chemicals on the market whose long-term side effects are simply not known yet.
- rcarr 3y agoInjecting testosterone suppresses your natural testosterone levels just as much if not more than SARMs. If you inject anything into your body that your body naturally produces it will stop producing it as a result. That’s why melatonin is not recommended for insomniacs because your body will become incapable of producing it yourself and it’s why SSRIs are used for depression because it encourages the body to produce more serotonin itself. Both SARMs and testosterone are capable of causing liver injury, but only the latter is also running the risk of fucking up your heart and prostate as far as we know. And the whole matter is complicated by the fact that fuck knows if what they’re actually getting is SARMs/testosterone or something else entirely.
- schnebbau 3y agoUsed responsibly, testosterone supplementation has multiple upsides with relatively little downside, even for men who do not have naturally low T. Unfortunately it looks like a few tik-tok kids are going to ruin it for everyone. Same as most good things in life I guess.
- throwaway5752 3y agoHealth impacts on the individual users of trt are just one aspect, it impacts other people. I live in an area where use is common and I'm tired of running into obviously roiding men who act much more aggressive than normal people in public. My experiences are retail and and driving. I've assumed that the tacit approval for steroid usage among law enforcement in the US has at least partially responsible police brutality incidents.
- r_p4rk 3y agoAre you even confident in your ability to spot someone who is "roiding" brother? TRT is a pretty standard hormonal therapy that helps men with low testosterone levels, it is not comparable to dbol or other literal anabolic steroids. In most men it will improve attitude and mood, not cause "roid rage".
- ttrmw 3y agoTestosterone supplementation is very unlikely to be causative for what you're running into. Test is incredibly mild in psychological effect (unless you're deficient). This kind of stereotype comes from trenbolone, but I think you shouldn't under-estimate the intersection of steroid users and cocaine users. It's bigger than you might intuitively guess.
- nkozyra 3y agoAggression certainly isn't limited to tren, high testosterone & DHT levels in general increase it. This is well understood. Using TRT for its prescribed effect (baseline "normal" range) likely won't have any impact on this but taking it to go above normal levels certainly could.
- elektrontamer 3y agoI don't care much about young users but I've always wondered why the body stops producing adequate amounts of it as we age. Is it because you're too old to have viable offspring by then (with few exceptions) so there are no selective pressures to maintain testosterone levels? If so, do the benefits of TRT far out weigh the risks at old age?
- Traubenfuchs 3y ago> I've always wondered why the body stops producing adequate amounts of it as we age As our organs, tissues and glands age, they decrease their output including our testes. This paper goes a bit into detail: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8619877/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8619877/
- elektrontamer 3y agoOh I get the aging part but it just seems so much easier to fix/maintain compared to aging in other tissues. It's like evolution should have gotten that right.
- h0h0h0h0111 3y agoAfaiu, in the UK many (most?) males over 55 get prescribed TRT. Male mortality tracks quite closely with muscle wastage, so it makes a lot of sense.
- ttrmw 3y agonah, this isn't correct. The NHS very very rarely prescribes TRT, certainly not as a matter of course.
- h0h0h0h0111 3y agowell perhaps all the old folk I know are the outliers - nearly all the pensioners I know have been prescribed a steroid once they get an illness edit: perhaps that isn't strictly TRT though - ianad
- rootusrootus 3y agoCorticosteroids are definitely common with older people, and aren't anything like anabolic steroids or testosterone.
- aSockPuppeteer 3y agoWhy not change to anabolic steroids in title because they’re not talking about corticosteroids. It’s extrapolated from 2015 data also. There is a lot of talk about negative effects that are widely known. At a bodybuilder or high medicinal level, you can work out multiple times per day at max effort without getting tired and only hungry or sweaty. Your brain will work at the highest efficiency but you may have issues applying it. You may not even need to sleep depending when you take it and for how long. Using it will either scare you to stop or you can take them until your kidneys fail and you’re in a wheelchair like Ronnie Coleman. If you live long enough maybe you end up with testicular cancer or it supercharges your brain and you end up curing cancer.
- diath 3y agoWhat is this complete nonsensical post even? Nobody on anabolic steroids can work out at max effort without getting tired, or being able to go without sleep, you're probably thinking of meth, not AAS. And what do kidneys have to do with processing steroids? And why bring up Ronnie Coleman as an example when his issue was that, 2 days after spinal surgery, against all recommendations, he decided to squat 800 pounds? And steroids increase DHT, which can be a risk factor in PROSTATE cancer, not testicular cancer.
- aSockPuppeteer 3y agoAre you speaking from experience as you have used steroids at the levels bodybuilders use or prescribed them? I have. Incorrect dosage timing i.e. taking them in the evening leads to little or no sleep. Kidneys end up failing soon with all the associated supplements and drugs. I merely wanted to comment about some side effects and give easy to understand examples because I did not see anyone mention the benefits yet. Thanks for going into more detail than I cared to. I think posting only benefits would be foolish.
- mesofile 3y agoI’ve the past several months, due to publicized advancements in LLM tech, I’ve started to read comments on HN and elsewhere with the ready assumption that these fora are prime training grounds for chat bots, and any given post may very well be machine-generated. The parent comment fits the bill completely, down to the username. Of course I can’t tell for sure, and there’s no question that real people have a proven capability for nonsensical statements, but sometimes there is a Mad Libs quality to a comment that makes me regard it as a likely byproduct of some hacker’s AI side project.
- nunez 3y agoAnabolic steroids and growth hormones should be legal, and their dosing programs be easily-obtainable by endocrinologists (though not reimbursable through health insurance) As it stands, if you've just started bodybuilding and want to get growth hormones, unless you're rich and well-connected enough, a pro or ex-Pro athlete or an A/B-list actor, your best bet is testosterone. Most PCPs won't prescribe it unless your levels are seriously low, and most endos won't do it either unless you go to one of those weird T clinics like this one: https://testosteroneclinicpro.com/testosterone-treatment-for-muscle-mass/ https://testosteroneclinicpro.com/testosterone-treatment-for... This means going to the black/gray-markets or to forums to: 1. get your supply, which is almost always imported from Eastern Europe or Asia and has variable quality control, and 2. your programming, which is highly dependent on your body (and everyone's body is different!) Bad programming is what kills/seriously injures people! Then again, the folks that would rather make this and other hard drugs illegal and horrifically addicting and fatal would probably consider that a feature, not a bug.