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I recently drove a 2019 Tesla Model 3 from NYC to Montreal via Vermont. Personally, I wouldn't do the route I took in a Tesla (/EV) again. The 'range anxiety' s

I recently drove a 2019 Tesla Model 3 from NYC to Montreal via Vermont. Personally, I wouldn't do the route I took in a Tesla (/EV) again. The 'range anxiety' set definitely in during the trip because, when departing NYC, I entered my destination in Vermont and the navigation system showed I'd have 47% battery remaining upon arrival... I ended up arriving with 19% battery and I was in the middle of the nowhere. Due to the prevailing weather conditions (the car kept saying the battery was cold) and it was raining I guess the battery dropped quicker than it should have? I was stressing out because my wife would be late to meeting her client had I went to the nearest supercharger and I didn't know if I would have enough battery to make it to the charger if continued and dropped off to the client, given how fast the battery was dropping. After dropping her off, I had to charge the car a further 3 times at superchargers, adding an extra 1h45m to the whole trip to Montreal. I also charged the car once going from NYC to Brattleboro, which was another 30m, so almost 2h15m in spent charging the car.

brianwawok 3y ago
I got used to this by my second road trip and it’s a nonissue. You control discharge rate Tina large extent. Battery on track to hit 0? Low speed from 74 to 69 and you do just fine and arrive at 12%. Have near 50k miles in road trips and won’t ever buy a Dino bone burner again.
- omgwtfbyobbq 3y ago
  Yup. The sane applies to ICEs, but fast refueling means people don't need to think about it.
  - ggm 3y ago
    Battery swap (please, don't swamp this with statements about greshams law and batteries) would eliminate this anxiety/speed thing too.
    - anonu 3y ago
      Battery swap is probably not the way. My prediction is charging times will get much faster with better battery tech in the next 5 years. We might be able to get a full charge in under 10 minutes - which starts to match the convenience of a gas fillup.
    - kelnos 3y ago
      I don't see manufacturers agreeing on a standardized battery pack size and shape. I also don't see battery swap stations getting built to the density needed, even if only as a supplement to charging stations. Battery swap stations would be significantly more expensive to build and maintain than charging stations. Regardless, we don't have battery swap, and I don't think any (serious) manufacturers have plans to go that route, so it's a moot point.
  - BluePen7 3y ago
    I regularly do a 200 mile mountain pass with a 75MPH limit, and have been explaining all this to my wife regarding our new Tesla. But I'd have never admitted how much more efficient our old ICE car would have been at 50MPH than the usual 85MPH I preferred (it's 3 lanes wide and empty, so it's not unsafe to go slower, I just didn't want to).
richardw 3y ago
YMMV but I think the obvious thing to do for anyone who worries about range is to use an EV for daily and hire the right car for a long trip. I don’t buy a car for my 1% trips, I buy a car for my 99% trips. When I need a 4x4, I hire. When I go on a weekend away with lots of gear, I get a trailer or larger car. Big family outing, people carrier. Fetch furniture, Uber van. Getting a huge car and using it for shopping or dropping kids off is allowing the rare use case to dictate how you experience the typical use case. Harder to park, fuel, maintain. Hiring also means I don’t have the “wrong” large car which doesn’t fit the rare holiday where I need more seats or storage.
- jbarham 3y ago
  A cheap and easy way to increase the size of the car you already have is to buy a roof box. Our previous car was a small hatchback and interstate trips with our three kids in the back would have been impossible without the roof box. I only bought a bigger car when my oldest kid was pushing 6 feet and running out of legroom in the back seat of the hatchback.
  - reassembled 3y ago
    And increase drag, resulting in lower fuel economy/range.
    - hr2016 3y ago
      Meh, I'm currently on a cross-island road trip with. Family of four in a >10 year old, manual, brown diesel grandtourer/station wagon. Trunk and roof box fully loaded. Long range fuel consumption at 5.3L/100kms, as usual at summer conditions. Of course, ymmv : - )
    - jbarham 3y ago
      Sure, but I only used the roof box on occasional long trips when we had lots of luggage (e.g., visiting the grandparents interstate for Christmas). So I might have paid a few tens of dollars extra in fuel, but it was certainly far cheaper than buying a bigger car when we otherwise didn't need the extra space. The roof rack and Thule box cost maybe $1200 AUD. But the rack was also useful for attaching bicycle carriers.
kccqzy 3y ago
What you describe is just a rookie mistake being a new EV driver. Humans learn and adapt very well. You'll get used to it very quickly if you keep driving EVs. You'll learn to do route planning better and those won't be problems.
- twelve40 3y ago
  yeah no. wife yelling at the top of her lungs because of low battery. No thank you. Leased and gave up an EV, now will wait until normal-priced ev's are solidly in the 400+ miles range. I have no desire to graduate from your "rookie" to an "ev planning pro" and wait until everyone else around me does that, too.
  - somsak2 3y ago
    >wife yelling at the top of her lungs this is a problem with you and your wife's relationship, not the EV.
    - EdwardDiego 3y ago
      I'd say she was stressing about missing her business meeting because the estimates given to the users by the car about range weren't accurate. That's on the EV, not their relationship.
      - maigret 3y ago
        EVs are highly efficient so the driving conditions make a huge difference. ICEs have a constant base consumption that we have gotten used to. It's unsettling at first, but as your consumption goes high a lot in high speed, you can save huge quantities (much more than you expect) by driving slower. You will lose less time than you think driving slower. Last time I spent 30 min behind a fast bus and quickly doubled my reach, more than enough to arrive home safely even while driving faster again. I think the idea of not taking an EV because in some edge case one might lose a few minutes (30m for charging most vehicles nowadays) extremely superficial and selfish in view of the huge disaster that is the climate crisis. Think about how your kids and grandkids will read such comments in 50 years.
Ologn 3y ago
> I recently drove a 2019 Tesla Model 3 from NYC to Montreal via Vermont. Personally, I wouldn't do the route I took in a Tesla (/EV) again. The 'range anxiety' set definitely in during the trip because, when departing NYC, I entered my destination in Vermont and the navigation system showed I'd have 47% battery remaining upon arrival... I ended up arriving with 19% battery and I was in the middle of the nowhere. I drove from Montréal to New York City in a gasoline powered car late at night, and in the 150+ miles between Plattsburgh and Albany I got range anxiety because I was getting low on gas and couldn't find any gas stations open. Of course this was in the days before smartphones and Google Maps and Gasbuddy etc.
- chrisco255 3y ago
  Yeah fair enough, before pay-at-the-pump and proliferation of 24HR gas stations and navigation systems, you definitely had to think about your range more, especially in rural areas. But most gas powered cars have at least 300 miles of range. My truck has 720 miles of range. And if you always fill up at half a tank, you'd be hard pressed to find a path to travel on in the U.S. in 2023 that doesn't hit multiple gas stations with 24 hour pump access. It's also true that running out of gas doesn't require a tow. You just need roadside assistance to bring 5-10 gallons to get you back on the road in minutes.
  - oniony 3y ago
    To be fair, a lot of the roadside assistance companies can now charge your car.
    - BluePen7 3y ago
      Source? Even as an EV owner/enthusiast I find that a little hard to believe. I find the idea of the portable power fascinating and have watched some YouTube videos on them, but it seems like a very expensive and niche thing so far. I've seen one company on YouTube that showed it off. I wanted an EV since back when I lived in an apartment, wished there was some sort of big capacitor on wheels I could charge all day from a normal outlet that would then fast charge my car for a few minutes. Most actual products seem to use batteries and cost thousands, and are for some unique scenario where you somehow can't just public charge. Still find them neat though. I think they typically just tow you to a charging station, seems a lot easier/faster/cheaper given they already own tow trucks. In my opinion the only cost effective battery to travel around with would be the one inside an existing EV, I just hope we get beyond household outlet speeds for V2L. Would be neat if a passing EV could rescue at 50kw or something fast.
ryzvonusef 3y ago
please check the route you drove on "A Better Route Planner". Does the ABPR give a better indication of the driving conditions? When driving long distances on an EV, I think using ABRP is a must, to have an idea of all alternative routes.
gamblor956 3y ago
A co-worker drove to SLC from LA (abut 700 miles) in their Model 3 a few months ago. It took over 24 hours, including charging along the way, and they had to pre-plan their stops to make sure they could make each charger without their battery dying. I recently drove to a campground in Yellowstone from LA (about 1000 miles) in an ICE SUV in less than 15 hours, including multiple rest/food breaks and traffic delays in the park due to road work. We didn't plan any stops on the way, and only got gas when we stopped for restroom breaks. Right now, driving an EV means giving up a significant amount of freedom and turns what should be a pleasant road trip into a stress-inducing chore...and that doesn't even take into account the lack of charging options at home for those of us who don't live in single-family dwellings.
- veec_cas_tant 3y ago
  > A co-worker drove to SLC from LA (abut 700 miles) in their Model 3 a few months ago. It took over 24 hours, including charging along the way, and they had to pre-plan their stops to make sure they could make each charger without their battery dying Sorry, your co-worker is likely lying... that would mean something like 14 hours of charging per 9 hours of driving which is very far from reality. Easy way to check: https://abetterrouteplanner.com https://abetterrouteplanner.com
  - gamblor956 3y ago
    No, they were definitely not lying, and its one of the things that turned them from a Tesla enthusiast into someone who won't be getting a Tesla ever again (ongoing issues with AP/FSD being the other). Assuming infinite fuel/charge, LA to SLC is 9 hours of driving with good traffic, in temperate weather. In the winter, temperatures along the way can approach or drop below freezing; in the summer most of the drive is 100+ degree temperatures. In both cases, the temperature drastically lowers range before taking AC/heating into account. This has little to no effect on ICE vehicles (except at the start of the drive when the engine is warming up) but has huge effects on EV vehicles; cold can reduce EV range by as much as 40% and the heat reduces range by about 15%. This means that a Model 3's theoretical range would only be about 200-280 miles. This means the car has to be charged at least twice for the trip to Vegas, and 2-3 times for the trip from Vegas to SLC. It turns out the charging situation is great from LA to Vegas (Barstow, Baker, and Primm) but almost non-existent past Vegas (essentially nothing past Vegas until you reach St George, hence the need to plan stops. If you're lucky and the Supercharger is available when you need it, great.. Not so great when all the spots are taken, and you're either waiting in the cold/heat or relying on the EA station a few miles down having working charging. Unfortunately, EA stations along this route generally don't have supercharging speeds... While in Yellowstone I encountered a handful of Teslas from Angelenos who said that it took them the better part of 2 days to get there (but otherwise weren't specific about the time, route, charging situation, etc), so it's not an isolated incident. Long story short: just because you're a techie and can optimize your EV driving doesn't mean everyone else will. Your experience is the exception, not the norm.

brianwawok 3y ago

I got used to this by my second road trip and it’s a nonissue. You control discharge rate Tina large extent. Battery on track to hit 0? Low speed from 74 to 69 and you do just fine and arrive at 12%. Have near 50k miles in road trips and won’t ever buy a Dino bone burner again.

omgwtfbyobbq 3y ago
Yup. The sane applies to ICEs, but fast refueling means people don't need to think about it.
- ggm 3y ago
  Battery swap (please, don't swamp this with statements about greshams law and batteries) would eliminate this anxiety/speed thing too.
  - anonu 3y ago
    Battery swap is probably not the way. My prediction is charging times will get much faster with better battery tech in the next 5 years. We might be able to get a full charge in under 10 minutes - which starts to match the convenience of a gas fillup.
  - kelnos 3y ago
    I don't see manufacturers agreeing on a standardized battery pack size and shape. I also don't see battery swap stations getting built to the density needed, even if only as a supplement to charging stations. Battery swap stations would be significantly more expensive to build and maintain than charging stations. Regardless, we don't have battery swap, and I don't think any (serious) manufacturers have plans to go that route, so it's a moot point.
- BluePen7 3y ago
  I regularly do a 200 mile mountain pass with a 75MPH limit, and have been explaining all this to my wife regarding our new Tesla. But I'd have never admitted how much more efficient our old ICE car would have been at 50MPH than the usual 85MPH I preferred (it's 3 lanes wide and empty, so it's not unsafe to go slower, I just didn't want to).

richardw 3y ago

YMMV but I think the obvious thing to do for anyone who worries about range is to use an EV for daily and hire the right car for a long trip. I don’t buy a car for my 1% trips, I buy a car for my 99% trips. When I need a 4x4, I hire. When I go on a weekend away with lots of gear, I get a trailer or larger car. Big family outing, people carrier. Fetch furniture, Uber van. Getting a huge car and using it for shopping or dropping kids off is allowing the rare use case to dictate how you experience the typical use case. Harder to park, fuel, maintain. Hiring also means I don’t have the “wrong” large car which doesn’t fit the rare holiday where I need more seats or storage.

jbarham 3y ago
A cheap and easy way to increase the size of the car you already have is to buy a roof box. Our previous car was a small hatchback and interstate trips with our three kids in the back would have been impossible without the roof box. I only bought a bigger car when my oldest kid was pushing 6 feet and running out of legroom in the back seat of the hatchback.
- reassembled 3y ago
  And increase drag, resulting in lower fuel economy/range.
  - hr2016 3y ago
    Meh, I'm currently on a cross-island road trip with. Family of four in a >10 year old, manual, brown diesel grandtourer/station wagon. Trunk and roof box fully loaded. Long range fuel consumption at 5.3L/100kms, as usual at summer conditions. Of course, ymmv : - )
  - jbarham 3y ago
    Sure, but I only used the roof box on occasional long trips when we had lots of luggage (e.g., visiting the grandparents interstate for Christmas). So I might have paid a few tens of dollars extra in fuel, but it was certainly far cheaper than buying a bigger car when we otherwise didn't need the extra space. The roof rack and Thule box cost maybe $1200 AUD. But the rack was also useful for attaching bicycle carriers.

kccqzy 3y ago

What you describe is just a rookie mistake being a new EV driver. Humans learn and adapt very well. You'll get used to it very quickly if you keep driving EVs. You'll learn to do route planning better and those won't be problems.

twelve40 3y ago
yeah no. wife yelling at the top of her lungs because of low battery. No thank you. Leased and gave up an EV, now will wait until normal-priced ev's are solidly in the 400+ miles range. I have no desire to graduate from your "rookie" to an "ev planning pro" and wait until everyone else around me does that, too.
- somsak2 3y ago
  >wife yelling at the top of her lungs this is a problem with you and your wife's relationship, not the EV.
  - EdwardDiego 3y ago
    I'd say she was stressing about missing her business meeting because the estimates given to the users by the car about range weren't accurate. That's on the EV, not their relationship.
    - maigret 3y ago
      EVs are highly efficient so the driving conditions make a huge difference. ICEs have a constant base consumption that we have gotten used to. It's unsettling at first, but as your consumption goes high a lot in high speed, you can save huge quantities (much more than you expect) by driving slower. You will lose less time than you think driving slower. Last time I spent 30 min behind a fast bus and quickly doubled my reach, more than enough to arrive home safely even while driving faster again. I think the idea of not taking an EV because in some edge case one might lose a few minutes (30m for charging most vehicles nowadays) extremely superficial and selfish in view of the huge disaster that is the climate crisis. Think about how your kids and grandkids will read such comments in 50 years.

Ologn 3y ago

> I recently drove a 2019 Tesla Model 3 from NYC to Montreal via Vermont. Personally, I wouldn't do the route I took in a Tesla (/EV) again. The 'range anxiety' set definitely in during the trip because, when departing NYC, I entered my destination in Vermont and the navigation system showed I'd have 47% battery remaining upon arrival... I ended up arriving with 19% battery and I was in the middle of the nowhere. I drove from Montréal to New York City in a gasoline powered car late at night, and in the 150+ miles between Plattsburgh and Albany I got range anxiety because I was getting low on gas and couldn't find any gas stations open. Of course this was in the days before smartphones and Google Maps and Gasbuddy etc.

chrisco255 3y ago
Yeah fair enough, before pay-at-the-pump and proliferation of 24HR gas stations and navigation systems, you definitely had to think about your range more, especially in rural areas. But most gas powered cars have at least 300 miles of range. My truck has 720 miles of range. And if you always fill up at half a tank, you'd be hard pressed to find a path to travel on in the U.S. in 2023 that doesn't hit multiple gas stations with 24 hour pump access. It's also true that running out of gas doesn't require a tow. You just need roadside assistance to bring 5-10 gallons to get you back on the road in minutes.
- oniony 3y ago
  To be fair, a lot of the roadside assistance companies can now charge your car.
  - BluePen7 3y ago
    Source? Even as an EV owner/enthusiast I find that a little hard to believe. I find the idea of the portable power fascinating and have watched some YouTube videos on them, but it seems like a very expensive and niche thing so far. I've seen one company on YouTube that showed it off. I wanted an EV since back when I lived in an apartment, wished there was some sort of big capacitor on wheels I could charge all day from a normal outlet that would then fast charge my car for a few minutes. Most actual products seem to use batteries and cost thousands, and are for some unique scenario where you somehow can't just public charge. Still find them neat though. I think they typically just tow you to a charging station, seems a lot easier/faster/cheaper given they already own tow trucks. In my opinion the only cost effective battery to travel around with would be the one inside an existing EV, I just hope we get beyond household outlet speeds for V2L. Would be neat if a passing EV could rescue at 50kw or something fast.

ryzvonusef 3y ago

please check the route you drove on "A Better Route Planner". Does the ABPR give a better indication of the driving conditions? When driving long distances on an EV, I think using ABRP is a must, to have an idea of all alternative routes.

gamblor956 3y ago

A co-worker drove to SLC from LA (abut 700 miles) in their Model 3 a few months ago. It took over 24 hours, including charging along the way, and they had to pre-plan their stops to make sure they could make each charger without their battery dying. I recently drove to a campground in Yellowstone from LA (about 1000 miles) in an ICE SUV in less than 15 hours, including multiple rest/food breaks and traffic delays in the park due to road work. We didn't plan any stops on the way, and only got gas when we stopped for restroom breaks. Right now, driving an EV means giving up a significant amount of freedom and turns what should be a pleasant road trip into a stress-inducing chore...and that doesn't even take into account the lack of charging options at home for those of us who don't live in single-family dwellings.

veec_cas_tant 3y ago
> A co-worker drove to SLC from LA (abut 700 miles) in their Model 3 a few months ago. It took over 24 hours, including charging along the way, and they had to pre-plan their stops to make sure they could make each charger without their battery dying Sorry, your co-worker is likely lying... that would mean something like 14 hours of charging per 9 hours of driving which is very far from reality. Easy way to check: https://abetterrouteplanner.com https://abetterrouteplanner.com
- gamblor956 3y ago
  No, they were definitely not lying, and its one of the things that turned them from a Tesla enthusiast into someone who won't be getting a Tesla ever again (ongoing issues with AP/FSD being the other). Assuming infinite fuel/charge, LA to SLC is 9 hours of driving with good traffic, in temperate weather. In the winter, temperatures along the way can approach or drop below freezing; in the summer most of the drive is 100+ degree temperatures. In both cases, the temperature drastically lowers range before taking AC/heating into account. This has little to no effect on ICE vehicles (except at the start of the drive when the engine is warming up) but has huge effects on EV vehicles; cold can reduce EV range by as much as 40% and the heat reduces range by about 15%. This means that a Model 3's theoretical range would only be about 200-280 miles. This means the car has to be charged at least twice for the trip to Vegas, and 2-3 times for the trip from Vegas to SLC. It turns out the charging situation is great from LA to Vegas (Barstow, Baker, and Primm) but almost non-existent past Vegas (essentially nothing past Vegas until you reach St George, hence the need to plan stops. If you're lucky and the Supercharger is available when you need it, great.. Not so great when all the spots are taken, and you're either waiting in the cold/heat or relying on the EA station a few miles down having working charging. Unfortunately, EA stations along this route generally don't have supercharging speeds... While in Yellowstone I encountered a handful of Teslas from Angelenos who said that it took them the better part of 2 days to get there (but otherwise weren't specific about the time, route, charging situation, etc), so it's not an isolated incident. Long story short: just because you're a techie and can optimize your EV driving doesn't mean everyone else will. Your experience is the exception, not the norm.