12 ms·

ChatGPT is now a brilliant tool for winding up telemarketers and scammers

99 points by mikece 3y ago

mpetrovich 3y ago
The demos on the Jolly Roger site are hilarious. The bot sounds so realistic, and the bot even had the audacity to ask the scammer, “Are you a real person?!” “Hold on, there’s a bee on my arm”
- ilaksh 3y ago
  It seems to be just repeating some prerecorded script. Only using ChatGPT to detect when to say "ok" or "yes".
  - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
    Yeah, which I assume is the “superprompt” they mentioned in the article on their website.[0] Honestly, if you combined it with a sufficiently powerful GPU, Whisper (maybe even FasterWhisper or WhisperX due to increased speeds), and fed those into the prompts it would probably work even better and be more realistic. [0] - https://jollyrogertelephone.com/now-gpt-powered-jolly-roger-telephone-in-the-wall-street-journal/ https://jollyrogertelephone.com/now-gpt-powered-jolly-roger-...
marban 3y ago
Hilarious but technically not really impressive in terms of being in context, which would have probably doubled the wasted time.
gAI 3y ago
The war over mindshare is really ramping up.
breckenedge 3y ago
Blog article with 100% less spam https://jollyrogertelephone.com/now-gpt-powered-jolly-roger-telephone-in-the-wall-street-journal/ https://jollyrogertelephone.com/now-gpt-powered-jolly-roger-...
- Grimburger 3y ago
  > Access from your Country was disabled by the administrator. Guess I'll read the article.
  - d33 3y ago
    As always, Web Archive comes to rescue: https://web.archive.org/web/20230701142059/https://jollyrogertelephone.com/now-gpt-powered-jolly-roger-telephone-in-the-wall-street-journal/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230701142059/https://jollyroge...
- Geezus_42 3y ago
  I already loved Jolly Rodger Telephone service. I hope this is even more hilarious. For those who don't know $12 spam call filtering that can actually talk to the telemarketers, wasting their time, and send you a recording of the call. I've had some good ones.
  - Geezus_42 3y ago
    $12/yr :Can't edit:
  - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
    You know I thought it was gonna be $12/mo, but $12/yr? Now that’s an interesting proposal.
richbell 3y ago
ChatGPT is also a brilliant tool for helping telemarketers and scammers. A few people pranking them and wasting their time does little to disperse the tsunami fraudulent calls and emails enabled by LLMs.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Soon it will just be AIs fighting AIs on the phone battle field. Probably a net good, because if it gets too bad it will force the government to fix the situation.
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    "We've been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty..." - How long was that shit allowed for? Even now, oil companies are subsidized tens of billions of tax dollars per year - and they're not merely annoying; they're downright apocalyptic. As long as the AI companies have lobbyists, I imagine they'll be allowed to do just about whatever they like to us.
    - bequanna 3y ago
      Not sure why you brought it up, but about those famous oil “subsidies”: https://www.forbes.com/sites/drillinginfo/2016/02/22/debunking-myths-about-federal-oil-gas-subsidies/?sh=3081b8006e1c https://www.forbes.com/sites/drillinginfo/2016/02/22/debunki...
      - mandmandam 3y ago
        Lol. That article doesn't tickle your propaganda detector at all? ... It's not even very sophisticated or well written. Bias oozes from every paragraph And you ought not to expect any different - it's an opinion piece, written by Len Tosoro, "Director of Land Products at Drillinginfo". Let's break it down, shall we? * The definition of a subsidy: Len uses dictionary definitions to argue that subsidies aren't equivalent to tax breaks. But experts consider tax breaks or reductions a form of indirect subsidy. A subsidy can be direct (cash grants, interest-free loans, etc.) or indirect (tax breaks, insurance, low-interest loans, depreciation write-offs, rent rebates, etc.). When the government forgoes tax revenue that it otherwise would have collected, this lost revenue can be considered... a subsidy. * Master Limited Partnerships (MLPs): Len argues that MLPs shouldn't be considered a subsidy for the oil and gas industry, but MLPs are a specific type of partnership that's publicly traded. There's a potential benefit to the oil and gas industry because these entities don't pay corporate income tax, unlike corporations. This structure can allow for lower capital costs. * Intangible Drilling Costs: The author suggests that because these costs "may or may not be recovered", it doesn't make sense to treat them as assets. However, this misses the point that tax policy is often designed to encourage or discourage certain behaviors. By allowing these costs to be deducted immediately, the tax policy is incentivizing oil and gas exploration, which can be considered a form of subsidy. * Royalty Payment Reductions: "Drillinginfo" claim that reduced royalty payments aren't a subsidy because income derived from operations is taxed at normal rates. However, this ignores the fact that lower royalty payments mean companies are effectively paying less for the resources they extract, which can also be seen as a form of subsidy. * Depletion Allowance: The author argues that it's fair for companies to treat reserves as an asset that can be depreciated. However, this allowance lets companies write off more than the actual investment value, which isn't available to other industries, and thus it is often classified as a subsidy. * Domestic Manufacturing Deduction and Foreign Tax Credit: While these tax breaks are not specific to the oil and gas industry, the fact that this industry can benefit significantly from these deductions can also be interpreted as a form of subsidy. * Other industry comparisons: Len compares tax rates in the oil & gas sector with the healthcare and pharmaceutical industries. Lol, as if we don't subsidize them unfairly too. Regardless, tax rates depend on a bunch of factors. You can't simply compare them on an industry to industry basis. Also, the criticism towards subsidies isn't just about tax rates but about the environmental and societal impact of fossil fuel production and consumption. You know - the whole they're killing the whole planet thing. * Taxes paid by oil & gas companies: It's worth noting that just because a sector pays large amounts of taxes, this doesn't mean they don't also receive subsidies. These are not mutually exclusive. Len is a bit of a moron - is what I would say, if he weren't being paid to spit out harmful propaganda like this. And fuck Forbes too for printing it.
cypherpunks01 3y ago
I suppose we'll soon see a good % of phone network usage being spent on AI callers talking to AI filters/receptionists. Like all the Internet packets dedicated to captchas and blocking email spam, bot traffic, etc, phone systems will evolve to better filter and handle automated vs. human calls as a tsunami of AI callers approaches. It's going to be a tough battle because it's really difficult to discern from voice traffic alone.
- ilaksh 3y ago
  We're already kind of there. Android has had Google screening transcripts for awhile and Apple just came out with theirs. I don't think anyone who knows better ever actually answers the phone anymore unless it's someone they already know or have initiated some phone business with.
- Krasnol 3y ago
  I'm always quite surprised to hear that. We had quite a bad phase here in Germany before mobile phones became popular, but I haven't got one of those scam calls on my landline for years now. There isn't even much spam SMS, but maybe it's because I don't give away my number to everybody.
  - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
    It makes sense, landlines are in the minority and are presumably unprofitable now. I guess we’ve reached the point to where even the majority of the elderly have cellphones rather than landlines.
- vidarh 3y ago
  We're finally reaching the 90's obsession with "agents" to act on our behalf.
girishso 3y ago
> Access from your Country was disabled by the administrator. Is this going to be a new normal?
- csydas 3y ago
  it's been the norm for awhile. many streaming services have extremely strict policies on where you can watch content, many site owners set up regional blocking if you aren't showing as from the US without VPN, even some fairly major US store chains won't let you _look_ at the site if you're not showing as from the US without vpn. it's also very common for sites behind cloud flare to either just completely block you out or make the captchas so egregious that you can't continue.
  - girishso 3y ago
    Streaming services I can understand, they might have restrictions from the studios and what not. But this must be a blog or something similar.
- rootusrootus 3y ago
  My assumption is it'll just get worse. The more local regulation of the Internet there is, the more reason sites have to just block everyone but their expected customer base.
stcg 3y ago
Is there an example recording? I'm curious to what such a conversation sounds like
- entropie 3y ago
  Yeah, linked in the article. https://jollyrogertelephone.com/our-robots/ https://jollyrogertelephone.com/our-robots/ Its very funny.
- dumdumchan 3y ago
  There you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtO7jvS-pxA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtO7jvS-pxA
footlose_3815 3y ago
This is an ad for a private service.
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  And unfortunately it’s missing a lot of technical details. I mean they say this is “ChatGPT”, but if it is its not a very good implementation. It doesn’t appear to generate content on the fly, and instead works from a pre-done script? However, I may be wrong on this, but there’s genuinely not any information beyond feeding a “superprompt” to ChatGPT.
amelius 3y ago
What if the AI accidentally says the wrong thing and bankrupts you by buying a bridge?
- DangitBobby 3y ago
  What are they gonna successfully guess you credit card number?
  - amelius 3y ago
    AI: "Just put that bridge in the front yard, I will pay for it later!"
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  Just don’t give the AI your payment information.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
mwint 3y ago
A couple years ago I committed to answering all phone calls and keeping spammers on the line as long as possible. Within a couple weeks it had real effect, and now I’m legitimately excited when the rare spammer calls me. Probably 2h net investment for the near-guarantee that calls to my phone are legit. Totally worth it. Steps: (1) If it’s a robot, punch numbers until you get to a human. (2) Act like you’re 120yrs old, incompetent, and forgetful. Tell them some stories about your great-grandson on the baseball team. (3) When they call you on it, switch to your real persona and just tell them you’re setting the phone down on the table and they’ll have to hang up. They hate hanging up, it messes up their stats or something. This is how you get put on the _real_ do-not-call lists - the ones in India labeled “unprofitable_numbers.txt”.
- circuit10 3y ago
  “They hate hanging up, it messes up their stats or something.” Could this be one reason why they often get really angry in scambaiting videos? To try to make the other person hang up?
- b0afc375b5 3y ago
  Oh wow I didn't think of that. Very recently I've received multiple calls from unknown numbers. I'm going to try this next time.
- boppo1 3y ago
  I'll do you one better: When they call, sincerely start asking them questions about the identity of their business: location, name, ownership, etc. Usually they'll hang up. Call them back over and over with these questions. Then after a few calls, explain that you know how to use "VOIP APIs" and that you will be happy to spend $100 to DOS attack their call center. That would be illegal, but typically they're in no position to run to the law. Also, I don't know what a "VOIP API" is or if it's possible to use to DOS attack someone with it. But there's probably an API out there that you could use for that, so the threat seems to be enough.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    You can shortcut all the effort with eight words, in my experience: "Would you like to join a trade union?"
furstenheim 3y ago
The future is a bit dire, an army of chatgpt scammers talking to an army of chatgpt antyscammers.
- arepublicadoceu 3y ago
  At least no humans are harmed in the process.
  - jareklupinski 3y ago
    except for the ones not using the tools Bronze Age, Iron Age... they'll really look back on this time as the Silicon Age, won't they?
swimfar 3y ago
Even completely prerecorded scripts can keep them on the phone for over 10 minutes. There's a funny series on YouTube, "Lenny", where they just play a recording of an old man who keeps asking questions and going off track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSoOrlh5i1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSoOrlh5i1k
maroonblazer 3y ago
It's like "Lenny"[0] evolved. [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CsEuJNSnh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CsEuJNSnh8
TheCaptain4815 3y ago
Noticed this on upwork as well. All of a sudden someone who’s English was very suspect was giving me full complete answers through text in perfect English? Pretty helpful in removing those folks though.
rubbarndt 3y ago
[dead]
rubbarndt 3y ago
[dead]

99 points by mikece 3y ago

The demos on the Jolly Roger site are hilarious. The bot sounds so realistic, and the bot even had the audacity to ask the scammer, “Are you a real person?!” “Hold on, there’s a bee on my arm”

ilaksh 3y ago
It seems to be just repeating some prerecorded script. Only using ChatGPT to detect when to say "ok" or "yes".
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  Yeah, which I assume is the “superprompt” they mentioned in the article on their website.[0] Honestly, if you combined it with a sufficiently powerful GPU, Whisper (maybe even FasterWhisper or WhisperX due to increased speeds), and fed those into the prompts it would probably work even better and be more realistic. [0] - https://jollyrogertelephone.com/now-gpt-powered-jolly-roger-telephone-in-the-wall-street-journal/ https://jollyrogertelephone.com/now-gpt-powered-jolly-roger-...

marban 3y ago

Hilarious but technically not really impressive in terms of being in context, which would have probably doubled the wasted time.

gAI 3y ago

The war over mindshare is really ramping up.

breckenedge 3y ago

Blog article with 100% less spam https://jollyrogertelephone.com/now-gpt-powered-jolly-roger-telephone-in-the-wall-street-journal/ https://jollyrogertelephone.com/now-gpt-powered-jolly-roger-...

Grimburger 3y ago
> Access from your Country was disabled by the administrator. Guess I'll read the article.
- d33 3y ago
  As always, Web Archive comes to rescue: https://web.archive.org/web/20230701142059/https://jollyrogertelephone.com/now-gpt-powered-jolly-roger-telephone-in-the-wall-street-journal/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230701142059/https://jollyroge...
Geezus_42 3y ago
I already loved Jolly Rodger Telephone service. I hope this is even more hilarious. For those who don't know $12 spam call filtering that can actually talk to the telemarketers, wasting their time, and send you a recording of the call. I've had some good ones.
- Geezus_42 3y ago
  $12/yr :Can't edit:
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  You know I thought it was gonna be $12/mo, but $12/yr? Now that’s an interesting proposal.

richbell 3y ago

ChatGPT is also a brilliant tool for helping telemarketers and scammers. A few people pranking them and wasting their time does little to disperse the tsunami fraudulent calls and emails enabled by LLMs.

mensetmanusman 3y ago
Soon it will just be AIs fighting AIs on the phone battle field. Probably a net good, because if it gets too bad it will force the government to fix the situation.
- mandmandam 3y ago
  "We've been trying to reach you about your car's extended warranty..." - How long was that shit allowed for? Even now, oil companies are subsidized tens of billions of tax dollars per year - and they're not merely annoying; they're downright apocalyptic. As long as the AI companies have lobbyists, I imagine they'll be allowed to do just about whatever they like to us.
  - bequanna 3y ago
    Not sure why you brought it up, but about those famous oil “subsidies”: https://www.forbes.com/sites/drillinginfo/2016/02/22/debunking-myths-about-federal-oil-gas-subsidies/?sh=3081b8006e1c https://www.forbes.com/sites/drillinginfo/2016/02/22/debunki...
    - mandmandam 3y ago
      Lol. That article doesn't tickle your propaganda detector at all? ... It's not even very sophisticated or well written. Bias oozes from every paragraph And you ought not to expect any different - it's an opinion piece, written by Len Tosoro, "Director of Land Products at Drillinginfo". Let's break it down, shall we? * The definition of a subsidy: Len uses dictionary definitions to argue that subsidies aren't equivalent to tax breaks. But experts consider tax breaks or reductions a form of indirect subsidy. A subsidy can be direct (cash grants, interest-free loans, etc.) or indirect (tax breaks, insurance, low-interest loans, depreciation write-offs, rent rebates, etc.). When the government forgoes tax revenue that it otherwise would have collected, this lost revenue can be considered... a subsidy. * Master Limited Partnerships (MLPs): Len argues that MLPs shouldn't be considered a subsidy for the oil and gas industry, but MLPs are a specific type of partnership that's publicly traded. There's a potential benefit to the oil and gas industry because these entities don't pay corporate income tax, unlike corporations. This structure can allow for lower capital costs. * Intangible Drilling Costs: The author suggests that because these costs "may or may not be recovered", it doesn't make sense to treat them as assets. However, this misses the point that tax policy is often designed to encourage or discourage certain behaviors. By allowing these costs to be deducted immediately, the tax policy is incentivizing oil and gas exploration, which can be considered a form of subsidy. * Royalty Payment Reductions: "Drillinginfo" claim that reduced royalty payments aren't a subsidy because income derived from operations is taxed at normal rates. However, this ignores the fact that lower royalty payments mean companies are effectively paying less for the resources they extract, which can also be seen as a form of subsidy. * Depletion Allowance: The author argues that it's fair for companies to treat reserves as an asset that can be depreciated. However, this allowance lets companies write off more than the actual investment value, which isn't available to other industries, and thus it is often classified as a subsidy. * Domestic Manufacturing Deduction and Foreign Tax Credit: While these tax breaks are not specific to the oil and gas industry, the fact that this industry can benefit significantly from these deductions can also be interpreted as a form of subsidy. * Other industry comparisons: Len compares tax rates in the oil & gas sector with the healthcare and pharmaceutical industries. Lol, as if we don't subsidize them unfairly too. Regardless, tax rates depend on a bunch of factors. You can't simply compare them on an industry to industry basis. Also, the criticism towards subsidies isn't just about tax rates but about the environmental and societal impact of fossil fuel production and consumption. You know - the whole they're killing the whole planet thing. * Taxes paid by oil & gas companies: It's worth noting that just because a sector pays large amounts of taxes, this doesn't mean they don't also receive subsidies. These are not mutually exclusive. Len is a bit of a moron - is what I would say, if he weren't being paid to spit out harmful propaganda like this. And fuck Forbes too for printing it.

cypherpunks01 3y ago

I suppose we'll soon see a good % of phone network usage being spent on AI callers talking to AI filters/receptionists. Like all the Internet packets dedicated to captchas and blocking email spam, bot traffic, etc, phone systems will evolve to better filter and handle automated vs. human calls as a tsunami of AI callers approaches. It's going to be a tough battle because it's really difficult to discern from voice traffic alone.

ilaksh 3y ago
We're already kind of there. Android has had Google screening transcripts for awhile and Apple just came out with theirs. I don't think anyone who knows better ever actually answers the phone anymore unless it's someone they already know or have initiated some phone business with.
Krasnol 3y ago
I'm always quite surprised to hear that. We had quite a bad phase here in Germany before mobile phones became popular, but I haven't got one of those scam calls on my landline for years now. There isn't even much spam SMS, but maybe it's because I don't give away my number to everybody.
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  It makes sense, landlines are in the minority and are presumably unprofitable now. I guess we’ve reached the point to where even the majority of the elderly have cellphones rather than landlines.
vidarh 3y ago
We're finally reaching the 90's obsession with "agents" to act on our behalf.

girishso 3y ago

> Access from your Country was disabled by the administrator. Is this going to be a new normal?

csydas 3y ago
it's been the norm for awhile. many streaming services have extremely strict policies on where you can watch content, many site owners set up regional blocking if you aren't showing as from the US without VPN, even some fairly major US store chains won't let you _look_ at the site if you're not showing as from the US without vpn. it's also very common for sites behind cloud flare to either just completely block you out or make the captchas so egregious that you can't continue.
- girishso 3y ago
  Streaming services I can understand, they might have restrictions from the studios and what not. But this must be a blog or something similar.
rootusrootus 3y ago
My assumption is it'll just get worse. The more local regulation of the Internet there is, the more reason sites have to just block everyone but their expected customer base.

stcg 3y ago

Is there an example recording? I'm curious to what such a conversation sounds like

entropie 3y ago
Yeah, linked in the article. https://jollyrogertelephone.com/our-robots/ https://jollyrogertelephone.com/our-robots/ Its very funny.
dumdumchan 3y ago
There you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtO7jvS-pxA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtO7jvS-pxA

footlose_3815 3y ago

This is an ad for a private service.

tourmalinetaco 3y ago
And unfortunately it’s missing a lot of technical details. I mean they say this is “ChatGPT”, but if it is its not a very good implementation. It doesn’t appear to generate content on the fly, and instead works from a pre-done script? However, I may be wrong on this, but there’s genuinely not any information beyond feeding a “superprompt” to ChatGPT.

amelius 3y ago

What if the AI accidentally says the wrong thing and bankrupts you by buying a bridge?

DangitBobby 3y ago
What are they gonna successfully guess you credit card number?
- amelius 3y ago
  AI: "Just put that bridge in the front yard, I will pay for it later!"
tourmalinetaco 3y ago
Just don’t give the AI your payment information.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

mwint 3y ago

A couple years ago I committed to answering all phone calls and keeping spammers on the line as long as possible. Within a couple weeks it had real effect, and now I’m legitimately excited when the rare spammer calls me. Probably 2h net investment for the near-guarantee that calls to my phone are legit. Totally worth it. Steps: (1) If it’s a robot, punch numbers until you get to a human. (2) Act like you’re 120yrs old, incompetent, and forgetful. Tell them some stories about your great-grandson on the baseball team. (3) When they call you on it, switch to your real persona and just tell them you’re setting the phone down on the table and they’ll have to hang up. They hate hanging up, it messes up their stats or something. This is how you get put on the _real_ do-not-call lists - the ones in India labeled “unprofitable_numbers.txt”.

circuit10 3y ago
“They hate hanging up, it messes up their stats or something.” Could this be one reason why they often get really angry in scambaiting videos? To try to make the other person hang up?
b0afc375b5 3y ago
Oh wow I didn't think of that. Very recently I've received multiple calls from unknown numbers. I'm going to try this next time.
boppo1 3y ago
I'll do you one better: When they call, sincerely start asking them questions about the identity of their business: location, name, ownership, etc. Usually they'll hang up. Call them back over and over with these questions. Then after a few calls, explain that you know how to use "VOIP APIs" and that you will be happy to spend $100 to DOS attack their call center. That would be illegal, but typically they're in no position to run to the law. Also, I don't know what a "VOIP API" is or if it's possible to use to DOS attack someone with it. But there's probably an API out there that you could use for that, so the threat seems to be enough.
- ben_w 3y ago
  You can shortcut all the effort with eight words, in my experience: "Would you like to join a trade union?"

furstenheim 3y ago

The future is a bit dire, an army of chatgpt scammers talking to an army of chatgpt antyscammers.

arepublicadoceu 3y ago
At least no humans are harmed in the process.
- jareklupinski 3y ago
  except for the ones not using the tools Bronze Age, Iron Age... they'll really look back on this time as the Silicon Age, won't they?

swimfar 3y ago

Even completely prerecorded scripts can keep them on the phone for over 10 minutes. There's a funny series on YouTube, "Lenny", where they just play a recording of an old man who keeps asking questions and going off track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSoOrlh5i1k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSoOrlh5i1k

maroonblazer 3y ago

It's like "Lenny"[0] evolved. [0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CsEuJNSnh8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CsEuJNSnh8

TheCaptain4815 3y ago

Noticed this on upwork as well. All of a sudden someone who’s English was very suspect was giving me full complete answers through text in perfect English? Pretty helpful in removing those folks though.

rubbarndt 3y ago

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rubbarndt 3y ago

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