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Just woke up to this. Florida. Does not work over SMTP or FastMail iOS app, but I can open FastMail over the web from the browser. And it seems like I got some

Just woke up to this. Florida. Does not work over SMTP or FastMail iOS app, but I can open FastMail over the web from the browser. And it seems like I got some new mail, so not sure if some other mail was bounced. I have been using FastMail close to 10 years now (based on my blog post I wrote in may of 2014 about moving from Gmail to FastMail). I don't remember that big and long outage for those years. Which raises a concern for me: - I don't like how they handled it, the latest update is 4 hours ago https://twitter.com/fastmail https://twitter.com/fastmail, they mentioned "We're in close communication with our provider", which probably means it is not their fault, but the ISP. - Are they just too small, and it is just more likely to happen to them, comparing to GSuite or Outlook? For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_services_outages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_services_outages At this point FastMail is down for more than 7 hours. - I feel like a lot of companies might move to other providers after this. As I see a lot of people complain on twitter, and don't see any responses from Fastmail team. I am sure people will be unhappy. Kind of worries me. I am not ready to move away from FastMail. But if I will have to, the only option I see right now is Apple Mail with custom domains. But I feel like I am using so many mail customizations, and not sure if Apple Mail can even support all of them.

mechhacker 3y ago
In a similar situation/location. But can't access it through my home internet, but my phone is just fine if I turn off wifi. This is funny because I was still getting push notifications, I just couldn't read them with my phone connected to the home router. They've been brilliant otherwise. Able to import everything from gmail very easily.
- fprotthetarball 3y ago
  > But can't access it through my home internet, but my phone is just fine if I turn off wifi. Thanks for the tip. I can't access it via my home provider, but T-Mobile works. Interestingly enough, I'm getting new email notifications on my home provider; I just can't read the mail through it. They're probably using an unaffected Google service for notifications.
outcoldman 3y ago
Looked at the Apple Mail/iCloud Mail - they support only up to 5 custom domains. Which I guess you can workaround by creating separate iCloud accounts and pay for iCloud+
KevinGlass 3y ago
If you follow the Sysadmin subreddit, Microsoft routinely has long outages. Last week (or the week before) email was completely down, the admin panel was unusable, etc. Fastmail has been FAR more reliable then Microsoft. Yes, the Fastmail team should be responsive though. At least with Microsoft they internal comms are very leaky with this sort of thing so details are usually public long before it's announced.
ryanjamurphy 3y ago
Apple Mail's not quite as customizable, indeed. Maybe close though. I made a table comparing different email services on the MacPowerUsers forum a while back. It's in need of updating but might be handy: https://talk.macpowerusers.com/t/icloud-mail-fastmail-gmail-what-are-the-differences-the-email-service-feature-comparison-table/24929 https://talk.macpowerusers.com/t/icloud-mail-fastmail-gmail-...
- outcoldman 3y ago
  Thank you, this is useful. And actually brings the most important concern: the support. If something will go wrong, you can talk to real people behind FastMail. In case of Apple - not sure what is going to happen.
stuff4ben 3y ago
So one outage in 10 years has you this concerned and worried that you're considering moving? Wow!
- unsupp0rted 3y ago
  It’s not the outage, it’s the response, according to GP
  - withinboredom 3y ago
    If there’s an average of one or two outages a decade, I can forgive an unpracticed protocol.
    - outcoldman 3y ago
      It seems like they started replying on Twitter https://twitter.com/Fastmail/status/1674788776202350593 https://twitter.com/Fastmail/status/1674788776202350593 No new updates, just that they are still working on this issue.
  - nirvdrum 3y ago
    That's fair, but I don't think either Google or Microsoft (being the two alternatives proposed) are terribly forward with their downtime notifications either.
- scandox 3y ago
  I work in email security. If we even delay some emails for 5 minutes+ we're going to see significant customer response. Systems are designed accordingly.
  - david422 3y ago
    Is email really the right medium for that real-time communication? Being async in nature? What about spam filtering etc?
amelius 3y ago
> they mentioned "We're in close communication with our provider", which probably means it is not their fault, but the ISP. Shouldn't a system this big be redundant?
js2 3y ago
> so not sure if some other mail was bounced SMTP is designed to be resilient to outages. The sending MTA is supposed to queue messages if it can't reach the destination MTA. It should only bounce them after a significant outage (days, typically). https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5321#section-4.5.4 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5321#section-4.5.4
calvinmorrison 3y ago
> , so not sure if some other mail was bounced. 99% of outages on mail are supported totally by the protocol layer. It's a beautiful thing that if mail isn't delivered, the sender will just try again layer. It makes restarting services in a mail company much, uh, less risky. You won't miss any messages.
JoyfulTurkey 3y ago
Other mail systems should hopefully be configured for retry up to a few days. So I wouldn't think the mails should bounce unless someone used a really short retry period. "Retries continue until the message is transmitted or the sender gives up; the give-up time generally needs to be at least 4-5 days." from RFC 5321
palata 3y ago
In the last few years, GitHub reached a point where it seems like it's partly down every week. Even Facebook is down from time to time. WhatsApp too. One outage in 10 years sounds like a good reason to not move away, if you ask me.

mechhacker 3y ago

In a similar situation/location. But can't access it through my home internet, but my phone is just fine if I turn off wifi. This is funny because I was still getting push notifications, I just couldn't read them with my phone connected to the home router. They've been brilliant otherwise. Able to import everything from gmail very easily.

fprotthetarball 3y ago
> But can't access it through my home internet, but my phone is just fine if I turn off wifi. Thanks for the tip. I can't access it via my home provider, but T-Mobile works. Interestingly enough, I'm getting new email notifications on my home provider; I just can't read the mail through it. They're probably using an unaffected Google service for notifications.

outcoldman 3y ago

Looked at the Apple Mail/iCloud Mail - they support only up to 5 custom domains. Which I guess you can workaround by creating separate iCloud accounts and pay for iCloud+

KevinGlass 3y ago

If you follow the Sysadmin subreddit, Microsoft routinely has long outages. Last week (or the week before) email was completely down, the admin panel was unusable, etc. Fastmail has been FAR more reliable then Microsoft. Yes, the Fastmail team should be responsive though. At least with Microsoft they internal comms are very leaky with this sort of thing so details are usually public long before it's announced.

ryanjamurphy 3y ago

Apple Mail's not quite as customizable, indeed. Maybe close though. I made a table comparing different email services on the MacPowerUsers forum a while back. It's in need of updating but might be handy: https://talk.macpowerusers.com/t/icloud-mail-fastmail-gmail-what-are-the-differences-the-email-service-feature-comparison-table/24929 https://talk.macpowerusers.com/t/icloud-mail-fastmail-gmail-...

outcoldman 3y ago
Thank you, this is useful. And actually brings the most important concern: the support. If something will go wrong, you can talk to real people behind FastMail. In case of Apple - not sure what is going to happen.

stuff4ben 3y ago

So one outage in 10 years has you this concerned and worried that you're considering moving? Wow!

unsupp0rted 3y ago
It’s not the outage, it’s the response, according to GP
- withinboredom 3y ago
  If there’s an average of one or two outages a decade, I can forgive an unpracticed protocol.
  - outcoldman 3y ago
    It seems like they started replying on Twitter https://twitter.com/Fastmail/status/1674788776202350593 https://twitter.com/Fastmail/status/1674788776202350593 No new updates, just that they are still working on this issue.
- nirvdrum 3y ago
  That's fair, but I don't think either Google or Microsoft (being the two alternatives proposed) are terribly forward with their downtime notifications either.
scandox 3y ago
I work in email security. If we even delay some emails for 5 minutes+ we're going to see significant customer response. Systems are designed accordingly.
- david422 3y ago
  Is email really the right medium for that real-time communication? Being async in nature? What about spam filtering etc?

amelius 3y ago

> they mentioned "We're in close communication with our provider", which probably means it is not their fault, but the ISP. Shouldn't a system this big be redundant?

js2 3y ago

> so not sure if some other mail was bounced SMTP is designed to be resilient to outages. The sending MTA is supposed to queue messages if it can't reach the destination MTA. It should only bounce them after a significant outage (days, typically). https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5321#section-4.5.4 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5321#section-4.5.4

calvinmorrison 3y ago

> , so not sure if some other mail was bounced. 99% of outages on mail are supported totally by the protocol layer. It's a beautiful thing that if mail isn't delivered, the sender will just try again layer. It makes restarting services in a mail company much, uh, less risky. You won't miss any messages.

JoyfulTurkey 3y ago

Other mail systems should hopefully be configured for retry up to a few days. So I wouldn't think the mails should bounce unless someone used a really short retry period. "Retries continue until the message is transmitted or the sender gives up; the give-up time generally needs to be at least 4-5 days." from RFC 5321

palata 3y ago

In the last few years, GitHub reached a point where it seems like it's partly down every week. Even Facebook is down from time to time. WhatsApp too. One outage in 10 years sounds like a good reason to not move away, if you ask me.