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There seems to be a general problem with social media as a profitable business models as there don't seem to be any real path for companies to monetize their us

There seems to be a general problem with social media as a profitable business models as there don't seem to be any real path for companies to monetize their user base that don't end up causing damage. Given that Discord and Reddit have an overlapping user base it could be realization that that's not an user base that's either no especially desirable for advertisers or one simply hard to monetize for other reasons.

chongli 3y ago
18-35 year old men is a demographic that is extremely valuable to advertisers. Unfortunately, it also seems to be quite a slippery bunch who shy away from most forms of advertising. They definitely love Steam sales though!
- Stranger43 3y ago
  But it's only really an subset of that demographic and i suspect the age spread reaches far lower then 18(reddit might pretend otherwise for regulatory purposes). And i suspect a reason for the entire debacle is that a lot of the user base weren't seeing ads at all due to ad-blockers or the use of 3rd party apps. It's a problem that also seems to plague twitch in that they simply aren't generating the revenue that's expected from the amount of traffic generated.
  - tourmalinetaco 3y ago
    > And i suspect a reason for the entire debacle is that a lot of the user base weren't seeing ads at all due to ad-blockers or the use of 3rd party apps. Neither of which would be a problem for them if they didn’t remake and destroy the default UX on their desktop and made a functional app. By pushing users to third party solutions they also pushed them off of the ads. Because if you want a web extension to redirect to “old.reddit.com”, why not throw an adblocker on top?
- willis936 3y ago
  And are willing to pay for things that don't attempt to make users into products or buy into attention economics. Oh but that isn't interesting.
  - OldManRyan 3y ago
    Everything plays into attention economics and thinking otherwise is naive. Video games are optimized for play time and content, video streaming services try to keep you watching for as long as possible, music streaming services want you listening all day.
    - willis936 3y ago
      The artists I enjoy the most are not optimizing for any of that. The thing in between me and the art is not important to me.
      - OldManRyan 3y ago
        The artist you enjoy might not be but the streaming service you use to listen to them absolutely is.
        willis936 3y ago
        How does that affect me? They inherently add no value.
        JohnFen 3y ago
        Unless you don't use a streaming service. A lot of people still don't.
- Dudester230602 3y ago
  > 18-35 year old men is a demographic that is extremely valuable to advertisers. Unfortunately, it also seems to be quite a slippery bunch who shy away from most forms of advertising. Plus with marriage on the decline, they are more free to spend their own money. > They definitely love Steam sales though! Steam does not dictate what socio-political views should be.
hotpotamus 3y ago
I feel like Somethingawful figured it out 25 years ago. You can read a slightly censored version of the site for free, but if you want to post and read the swear words, it'll be $10. If you mouth off too bad and get banned, that's another $10. I guess it doesn't scale to world-eating business size, but I gladly sent them $10.
- pydry 3y ago
  Thats probably more like what they should be doing.
- namelessoracle 3y ago
  have you checked the current state of somethingawful?
  - hotpotamus 3y ago
    I'd say Lowtax was more of a hindrance than their business model; especially in retrospect. I always thought the edgy dirtbag thing was a bit of a put-on (which I enjoyed), but I was quite wrong on that, and it's a mistake I've learned not to make again.
aaomidi 3y ago
They literally could’ve said you’re required to pay for the premium subscription if you want to use third party apps and things would’ve gone over so much more smoothly. Now they’re facing competition in the fediverse, with apps that remove a lot of the barriers to entry (two iOS apps are currently in test flight and both look VERY promising)
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  Thinking that Reddit is seeing any viable threat from the "fediverse" is laughable. I think mastadon.social is seeming like a nice place, though I'm worried it's a left wing echo chamber, but do we have any evidence the vast majority of the userbase has left reddit? These are the same millions of people that just scroll r/pics all day, they really won't care if all the """valuable""" content everyone claims is only made by the power users disappears and all that's left is GallowBoob reposting their stash every year interspersed with overt ads and "native" advertising.
- sixothree 3y ago
  I just deleted all of my Reddit apps and walked away. I think their competition is basically any form of media. I don’t feel bad for them. Reddit is such a huge wasted opportunity to begin with. And they never seem to learn lessons other people make.
- ethbr0 3y ago
  The real issue with subscriptions is that it makes it hard/impossible to demonstrate revenue growth from a static userbase. It's fine for steady state / going concern financing. But no public or pre-IPO company wants to look like that. Advertising and engineered products allow you to create new revenue streams from your existing userbase, and because your customer isn't your users (B2B) price increases can be invisible.
  - kec 3y ago
    That would have been relatively easy to spin if it happened right before IPO though “Look at the last quarter(s) growth in premium subscription fees and MRR!”

chongli 3y ago

18-35 year old men is a demographic that is extremely valuable to advertisers. Unfortunately, it also seems to be quite a slippery bunch who shy away from most forms of advertising. They definitely love Steam sales though!

Stranger43 3y ago
But it's only really an subset of that demographic and i suspect the age spread reaches far lower then 18(reddit might pretend otherwise for regulatory purposes). And i suspect a reason for the entire debacle is that a lot of the user base weren't seeing ads at all due to ad-blockers or the use of 3rd party apps. It's a problem that also seems to plague twitch in that they simply aren't generating the revenue that's expected from the amount of traffic generated.
- tourmalinetaco 3y ago
  > And i suspect a reason for the entire debacle is that a lot of the user base weren't seeing ads at all due to ad-blockers or the use of 3rd party apps. Neither of which would be a problem for them if they didn’t remake and destroy the default UX on their desktop and made a functional app. By pushing users to third party solutions they also pushed them off of the ads. Because if you want a web extension to redirect to “old.reddit.com”, why not throw an adblocker on top?
willis936 3y ago
And are willing to pay for things that don't attempt to make users into products or buy into attention economics. Oh but that isn't interesting.
- OldManRyan 3y ago
  Everything plays into attention economics and thinking otherwise is naive. Video games are optimized for play time and content, video streaming services try to keep you watching for as long as possible, music streaming services want you listening all day.
  - willis936 3y ago
    The artists I enjoy the most are not optimizing for any of that. The thing in between me and the art is not important to me.
    - OldManRyan 3y ago
      The artist you enjoy might not be but the streaming service you use to listen to them absolutely is.
      - willis936 3y ago
        How does that affect me? They inherently add no value.
      - JohnFen 3y ago
        Unless you don't use a streaming service. A lot of people still don't.
Dudester230602 3y ago
> 18-35 year old men is a demographic that is extremely valuable to advertisers. Unfortunately, it also seems to be quite a slippery bunch who shy away from most forms of advertising. Plus with marriage on the decline, they are more free to spend their own money. > They definitely love Steam sales though! Steam does not dictate what socio-political views should be.

hotpotamus 3y ago

I feel like Somethingawful figured it out 25 years ago. You can read a slightly censored version of the site for free, but if you want to post and read the swear words, it'll be $10. If you mouth off too bad and get banned, that's another $10. I guess it doesn't scale to world-eating business size, but I gladly sent them $10.

pydry 3y ago
Thats probably more like what they should be doing.
namelessoracle 3y ago
have you checked the current state of somethingawful?
- hotpotamus 3y ago
  I'd say Lowtax was more of a hindrance than their business model; especially in retrospect. I always thought the edgy dirtbag thing was a bit of a put-on (which I enjoyed), but I was quite wrong on that, and it's a mistake I've learned not to make again.

aaomidi 3y ago

They literally could’ve said you’re required to pay for the premium subscription if you want to use third party apps and things would’ve gone over so much more smoothly. Now they’re facing competition in the fediverse, with apps that remove a lot of the barriers to entry (two iOS apps are currently in test flight and both look VERY promising)

mrguyorama 3y ago
Thinking that Reddit is seeing any viable threat from the "fediverse" is laughable. I think mastadon.social is seeming like a nice place, though I'm worried it's a left wing echo chamber, but do we have any evidence the vast majority of the userbase has left reddit? These are the same millions of people that just scroll r/pics all day, they really won't care if all the """valuable""" content everyone claims is only made by the power users disappears and all that's left is GallowBoob reposting their stash every year interspersed with overt ads and "native" advertising.
sixothree 3y ago
I just deleted all of my Reddit apps and walked away. I think their competition is basically any form of media. I don’t feel bad for them. Reddit is such a huge wasted opportunity to begin with. And they never seem to learn lessons other people make.
ethbr0 3y ago
The real issue with subscriptions is that it makes it hard/impossible to demonstrate revenue growth from a static userbase. It's fine for steady state / going concern financing. But no public or pre-IPO company wants to look like that. Advertising and engineered products allow you to create new revenue streams from your existing userbase, and because your customer isn't your users (B2B) price increases can be invisible.
- kec 3y ago
  That would have been relatively easy to spin if it happened right before IPO though “Look at the last quarter(s) growth in premium subscription fees and MRR!”