13 ms·
It is important to note that Harward’s admission policy that is the subject of this case was designed to favor White students over Jewish ones [1]. Today it is
by flowerlad 3y ago
It is important to note that Harward’s admission policy that is the subject of this case was designed to favor White students over Jewish ones [1]. Today it is being used to discriminate against Asian Americans.
Colleges are already prepared for this ruling. Many, such as the University of Washington have abandoned standardized tests because such tests compell universities to admit the kinds of students universities are trying to limit (Asian Americans).
[1] https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/06/23/a-lawsuit-reveals-how-peculiar-harvards-definition-of-merit-is https://www.economist.com/united-states/2018/06/23/a-lawsuit...
- bouncing 3y agoAmerica has long had most of the best universities in the world. Getting rid of all standardized tests and instead relying on (heavily inflated, or not) grades, combined with bullshit essays, is going to significantly undermine that.
- omginternets 3y ago[flagged]
- 93po 3y agoIn terms of reputation, name recognition, notable people who come out of them, publishers of leading research, and advancers of technology? If you looked at a list of the top 20 I would bet more than half are in the US.
- omginternets 3y agoMany of those people are imported from foreign universities. If the claim had been "American universities are better able to drain talent and fund research", I'd agree. In terms of educational quality, it's questionable.
- 93po 3y ago> educational quality, it's questionable. Virtually anyone at a top tier university would be 100% capable of learning their material and making good grades on it with the textbook alone. Combined with online resources, even easier. The quality of instruction isn't all that important for these schools, it's the decisions around which material to present and how to present it, which they can do because they attract the best talent.
- seanmcdirmid 3y agoThe ability to fund research and attract the best researchers (not necessarily educators) is useful at education's high-end, which is why many come to the USA in the first place. It isn't so great for standard or remedial education, however.
- Pigalowda 3y agoWhat do you know? You’re claiming something else but framing it as fact. You don’t know anything!
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> If the claim had been "American universities are better able to drain talent and fund research", I'd agree. In terms of educational quality, it's questionable Education quality at most top universities is middling, they’re designed for smart people who will reach for knowledge. Being around the best people drained from around the world provides fertile ground for that.
- omginternets 3y agoYes but there's two parts to this: the teachers and the students. The student body in top American universities (especially undergrad) wouldn't even make the wait-list in a fair number of European schools.
- _jab 3y agoCare to elaborate? I know I'd been making the same assumption about American universities - Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, and Stanford do seem to represent a good share of the world's best universities.
- DiogenesKynikos 3y agoIn terms of research, it's been roughly true since WWII. Persecution by the Nazis and the war drove the cream of the European scientific establishment to the US, and the US poured a large amount of government funding into science funding after the war. Things are changing, first because the European scientific community has recovered and also because scientific research has been taking off in Asia.
- oluwie 3y agoStandardized tests have been known for years as an very unfair way of judging students. People with resources to prepare and study for those tests often end up with inflated scores than for people who don't have the resource to prepare for them. High school grades have been consistently found the be #1 leading indicator of how well a student is going to do in college.
- flowerlad 3y agoSo untrue. The best resource for preparing for standardized tests is Khan Academy. It is free. High school grades on the other hand are getting inflated now, because of parental pressure, now that colleges are abandoning standardized tests, and relying more on GPAs. High schools don’t even have a standardized curriculum. Comparing GPAs across high schools make no sense. Within the same school it may make sense though.
- lukas099 3y agoI don't know about that. I had two one-hour tutoring sessions that helped me immensely. Going through all of Khan Academy might have helped just as much, but would have taken much, much longer.
- MichaelDickens 3y agoSo you're saying the SAT gives a bigger advantage to people with resources to prepare, compared to a GPA which is the result of many assignments and tests across four years? That does not sound remotely plausible to me. SAT + grades is a stronger predictor of college performance than grades alone. AFAIK this is a pretty uncontroversial finding. For a review article, see Frey (2019), "What We Know, Are Still Getting Wrong, and Have Yet to Learn about the Relationships among the SAT, Intelligence and Achievement." [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6963451/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6963451/
- SV_BubbleTime 3y agoAre you discounting that the factors that go I to the GPA are wildly different between schools? I think the guy that got a 2.9 in a school that was seriously focused on education is going to be better prepared for the 4.1 from a peace and love participation trophy school. Are you missing “standardized” portion?
- hospitalJail 3y agoThis ends up moving the burden onto individuals. If you have an Asian Medical Doctor, they are AAA. If you have a multiple minority Medical Doctor, they are not necessarily AAA, they could be As. Which one do you want to do brain surgery on you? Without Affirmative action, you'd trust a multiple minority doctor equally to an Asian doctor. I wonder what the cost is on the healthcare system/US citizens when we have worse performers in critical positions.
- einszwei 3y ago> If you have an Asian Medical Doctor, they are AAA. If you have a multiple minority Medical Doctor, they are not necessarily AAA, they could be As. > Which one do you want to do brain surgery on you? I have no strong opinion on affirmative action but this is a dishonest way to frame this topic. Affirmative action doesn't mean an institution can produce unqualified doctors. Both doctors should've gone through same examinations at medical schools, studied same textbooks and have similar training.
- ekam 3y agoTaking the same texts and having the same books mean nothing since the point of tests is the grades so what matters is if they had the same grades or not
- vxNsr 3y agoLook at grade averages for med schools over time. Also if the school is willing to bend their standards on admissions, who’s to say they won’t bend their standards on grading? It’s also almost impossible to get fired from a residency program once you get in, graduation rates are near 95%… I already don’t trust MD’s compared to DO’s because MD schools nearly all got rid of grading and all classes are pass/fail which encourages doing just well enough to pass. DO schools meanwhile continue to grade students which encourages excellence.
- cbm-vic-20 3y ago> who’s to say they won’t bend their standards on grading? Schools that do this will lose their accreditation.
- givemeethekeys 3y ago[flagged]
- flowerlad 3y agoGood question. There is no consensus on who is considered white. Nazis considered Jews to be a separate and inferior race. At one point in the US, Italians were not considered white. Irish, Greeks and Poles were not considered white at some point, and were discriminated against in the US. “No Irish need apply” (NINA) signs were common at one point in history.
- MrOwnPut 3y ago[flagged]
- givemeethekeys 3y ago[flagged]
- rendang 3y agoAshkenazi Jews are an ethnic group originating in the Near East, but with some admixture from Europeans. At least the plurality if not majority of American Jews are nonreligious, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews#Religious_beliefs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews#Religious_belief...
- 3y ago