16 ms·
Six-Legged Giant Finds Secret Hideaway, Hides For 80 Years
- ars 15y agoThat's an awesome story! Initially I didn't like the genetic bottleneck created by just having one pair (i.e. that they should go back and get more now that they know how to care for them, perhaps as a swap) - but then I realized the original source on the island was probably a single individual, so they are all probably virtually clones anyway. Once they have enough they should sell some - tons of people would be delighted to keep them as pets, and it would remove the risk of having them in just one location.
- jeroen 15y agoFour of them were taken from the island, two died. The other two were used to breed. It's in the article below the 6th image.
- rquantz 15y agoTo expand on another reply, it would probably not be a good idea to market these as pets. As soon as people start keeping a species in a terrarium in their home, some of them will escape. They might be fragile and die, but they might also cause massive problems for native insect populations. Now, marketing them as pets to residents of Lord Howe Island might be a good way to get them to accept repopulation...
- cpeterso 15y ago> Initially I didn't like the genetic bottleneck created by just having one pair (i.e. that they should go back and get more now that they know how to care for them, perhaps as a swap) - but then I realized the original source on the island was probably a single individual, so they are all probably virtually clones anyway. That's probably a problem when trying to save any endangered species. Given the challenges (and time investment) of animal husbandry, I'm surprised that cloning of endangered series is not more common. Even if the clones are genetically identical, at least they buy you some more time to save them.
- TheSOB88 15y agoClones are generally very fragile beings. They die soon. Also, they're not that easy to make - a whole process has to be discovered for each species. It's very, very time consuming and expensive.
- lionhearted 15y ago> The important thing, the scientists thought, was to get a few of these insects protected and into a breeding program. That wasn't so easy. The Australian government didn't know if the animals on Ball's Pyramid could or should be moved. There were meetings, studies, two years passed, and finally officials agreed to allow four animals to be retrieved. Just four. > When the team went back to collect them, it turned out there had been a rock slide on the mountain, and at first they feared that the whole population had been wiped out. This is why you just do things, bureaucrats be damned. Better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.
- asmithmd1 15y agoIt depends if you have young kids or not - it wouldn't be fair to them to be locked up for n years and not be able to pay the mortgage.
- srl 15y agoThis is one of the few instances where I disagree with that attitude. The risks involved in relocating ill-studied life forms are, obviously, enormous, and it does need careful and dispassionate consideration. I'd much rather risk a mildly interesting species go bye-bye than risk introducing a major ecological stressor. On the other hand, I might just be taking this stance because I'm so unfamiliar with biological studies in general, and if I knew more, I'd happily take a more gung-ho attitude towards these things.
- lionhearted 15y agoHuman error almost caused the species to go extinct -- I think it's fair, right, and proper to move to restore them to their prior condition if possible, and the situation was critical on the pyramid. It seems like a pretty docile species based on the articles facts, and they could keep them cordoned in a lab until they found what to do with them. If the researchers and biologists felt it was the right play (which they did), it seems like a dangerous risk to wait for committees of non-scientists to make a political decision based on it.
- 15y ago
- tpatke 15y agoThat's an amazing story. This insect was pretty lucky to live on the coolest rock climbing crag I have ever seen...which requires a special permit to climb [1]. I think I would have quite happily joined that "research" team. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balls_Pyramid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balls_Pyramid
- arethuza 15y agoI'd rather have a house on a craggy island: http://www.flickr.com/photos/icesebra/3675752635/in/set-72157600229451873/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/icesebra/3675752635/in/set-7215... [Apparently the house belongs to Bjork].
- the_tubes 15y agogod that would suck to go to the grocery from. How does she even get power?
- nl 15y agoThe first attempt to climb it was by Dick Smith (who is somewhat famous in Australia - initally for starting our version of Radio Shack) (There had been an earlier attempt in 1964 by another Sydney team, which included adventurer Dick Smith and other members of the Scouting movement. They were forced to turn back on their fifth day, running short of food and water. In 1979, Smith returned to the pyramid, together with climbers John Worrall and Hugh Ward. They successfully reached the summit and unfurled a flag of New South Wales provided to them by Premier Neville Wran, declaring the island Australian territory (a formality which it seems had not previously been done).)
- morsch 15y agoThe photo on Wikipedia is pretty low res, as are most other images I could find. This one is the best one I could find: http://www.fotopedia.com/items/caha118trhdlg-M-cFKeb7a90 http://www.fotopedia.com/items/caha118trhdlg-M-cFKeb7a90 These two are also good: http://www.gore-ljudje.net/informacije/60348/ http://www.gore-ljudje.net/informacije/60348/ Looks literally out of this world.
- threepointone 15y agoThis is a fascinating story, but I must ask - does this belong on hacker news? Please, I ask with no intended malice.
- rickdangerous1 15y agoYes.
- DanBC 15y agoFrom the guidelines: > On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity. > Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon. Videos of pratfalls or disasters, or cute animal pictures. If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic.
- Drbble 15y agoBut guess if they'd cover it on radio news, it could still be on topic.
- andrewflnr 15y agoI can totally see this on TV news, as a brief spot on a slow news day. But I have to admit, if I was only going to admit one off topic story per week or something, this one would make it.
- nolok 15y agoWhile I see your point, it's come to a point where I prefer to see such interesting non-tech article rather than the crcle jerking of (poorly made) benchmarks / you should do this / no you should do that / php should die / my answer to "php should die" that I should have posted as a comment but didn't because I'm only milking for more adviews / etc ...
- mirkules 15y ago
- petenixey 15y agoRespect to the little feller for making it out of that egg. Any animal that starts life having to unglue their feet from the bottom of a vacuum-packed, delivery case is a winner.
- Historiopode 15y agoI would be curious about the details of such "unpacking". The apparent volume ratio of the born insect over its egg's is quite stunning.
- sectek 15y agoMy first question is how "deep" the egg goes down into the sand. It could be a long tube protruding down into the sand.
- hexagonc 15y agoI wondered the same thing but according to the article, the eggs are pea-sized which suggests they are not elongated.
- bh42222 15y agoI think the way it works for most most (maybe even all) insects is to use air to blow themselves up much like a balloon to get out of the egg or cocoon.
- michaelcampbell 15y agowhere does this air come from; is the cocoon/egg not airtight?
- viaken 15y agoPossibly, but it popped the top open. Maybe it's possible to do that by just flexing some muscles.
- 15y ago
- haldean 15y agoWarning: large, up-close image of creepy-crawly.
- thespace 15y agoWHOA!! Look at those HUGE eyebrows!!
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- lysol 15y agoThe beetle mentioned in that article is not the same insect as in this article.
- theklub 15y agoThat is amazing. I'm glad they were found.
- ramblerman 15y ago"Step one, therefore, would be to mount an intensive (and expensive) rat annihilation program. Residents would, no doubt, be happy to go rat-free, ..." I despise rats. Yet I find it disconcerting that the author just brushes this off as a triviality. We are perfectly happy saving one species by wiping out another.
- 3am 15y agoBlack rats are extremely common worldwide and are at no risk of extinction so nobody is 'wiping out' black rats. They're only talking about on Howe Island. The goal is not to avoid killing animals, it's to preserve biodiversity. Same reason people try to wipe out Kudzu, zebra mussels, snakeheads, rats, and other invasive species that displace endemic populations.
- InclinedPlane 15y agoAt one point there were more passenger pigeons on Earth than there were humans. Pigeons are widely considered by many folks to be little more than rats with wings, so it's unsurprising that few people cared as passenger pigeon populations were "wiped out", until ultimately the species became extinct. I don't imagine that black rats will become extinct, but we should not pretend as though the prospect of "wiping out" local populations of any species is anything other than a morally ambiguous activity.
- nikatwork 15y agoIf the animal is an introduced species that has decimated native populations, I would think the morality quite straightforward.
- lysol 15y agoBlack rats are in no danger of extinction.
- fsniper 15y agoEven that, this means genocide for a species.
- leke 15y agoThe neighbouring Howe Island, is pure island porn. Ideal, steady annual climate, no venomous or stinging life forms. There aren't even sharks in the daytime waters.
- anamax 15y ago> There aren't even sharks in the daytime waters. That's actually a downside. Sharks are cool and they're almost never dangerous, at least to divers. Yes, things are different for surface folk who insist on looking like a seal from below.
- jordan0day 15y agoIt does apparently have a bit of a rat problem, though.
- jimrandomh 15y agoThis seems to me like a case of empathy gone awry. All that work and effort to bring back a species of insects? There is no balance to preserve; they've been gone for almost a century. Those resources could be spent preserving human life.
- lhnn 15y agoWhy aren't you a doctor? Don't you care about people? We all have hobbies and passions.
- justjimmy 15y agoWhat if those insects somehow hold a scientific discovery that can be a boon to the human race? Like silk by spiders? Or because of their large size, we could farm and grow them as alternative food source? Possibilities!
- dvdhsu 15y agoThere was an excellent article in the New Yorker about eating bugs some time back. http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/15/110815fa_fact_goodyear http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/08/15/110815fa_fact_... Unfortunately, it requires a subscription to read now.
- wisty 15y agoYep, as I saw him coming out of his shell, one of the first things I though was "I wonder if it's good eatin'". Actually, it's probably not bad, and bugs can be very efficient to farm.
- exch 15y agoPlaying the devil's advocate here but I believe humans do not need preserving. With 7 billion individuals and counting, it seems we're doing just fine. Regardless of how poor the living conditions are for many of us. For this particular species of insect however, having the last 24 remaining individuals of the entire species (presumably) be dependent on a single small shrubbery makes me think the effort put into this rescue was more than warranted. Specially considering their extinction was (indirectly) our fault and a mistake that could have been prevented with better education and oversight on who and what was brought along during our travels. Had their extinction been an entirely natural process, I might have agreed that their rescue would not have been such a high priority. Of course there is the question of us disturbing ecological balance somewhere is natural or not. We are after all natural beings ourselves. Whether we are intelligent or not and have the capacity to reason about our actions is irrelevant in a strictly biological sense. But this discussion opens up a whole different can of worms. edit: Fixed some grammar.
- malandrew 15y agoHow does the mobile version have photo of the island but not have a photo of the insect? Quite absurd. "Pics or didn't happen"
- kayhi 15y agoClickable wiki page for those that want to an image of the insect: http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Dryococelus_australis/ http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Dryococelus_australis/
- Drbble 15y agoHuh. I clicked that link on my phone, and the mobile redirect got DNS hijacked by t-mobile and redirected to a tmobile/yahoo domainsquat spam page.
- blacksmith_tb 15y agoBad trailing slash, I think, though it really should just err on the Wiki, not get hijacked by an ISP. http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Dryococelus_australis http://wikipedia.org/wiki/Dryococelus_australis
- literalusername 15y agoThe URL with a trailing slash redirects to a 404. Presumably tmobile feels they're providing a more useful result, and monetizing it. If my ISP did this I would use a proxy.
- kayhi 15y agoSorry for the typo, probably shouldn't comment with a mobile device.
- derrida 15y agoAny HN'ers in Sydney with a spare Yacht want to go check out Ball's pyramid? I'll cook. :-)
- ceejayoz 15y agoJust check the yacht for rats first...
- derrida 15y agoWe're not going to land! That'd be irresponsible!
- huhtenberg 15y agoRats can swim no problem.
- garazy 15y agoYou could fly to Lord Howe Island with Qantas from Sydney. I looked at doing it but it is very expensive and so is accommodation when you get there. Although now I might reconsider just seeing Ball's Pyramid would be reason to go.
- sitkack 15y agoAnother option which they probably explored was creating more habitat for them on Ball's Pyramid. Maybe somewhere far away from the original area or increase the cricket supply? I do not envy being in that situation, where a mistake seals the fate of a pretty awesome bug.
- afterburner 15y agoMy takeaway: Ball's Pyramid is one cool looking island.
- juliano_q 15y agoThis story gave me a weird feeling and reminded me of the Dodo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodo). This animal was extincted by man only 83 years of it was discovered. I am glad we have will/technology enough today to try to repair this kind of mistakes.
- rquantz 15y agoI'm upvoting you for the use of the word "extincted," which apparently the OED says is kind of ok: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2004324 http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2004324
- bonobo 15y agoStories like this always make me remember of the tasmanian wolf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thylacine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thylacine). I always wanted to see one of those alive.
- kingkawn 15y agoAnd utter stupefying luck
- agravier 15y agoThe dodo is just one among so many species that went extinct following human intervention, and not just in the modern age. I recommend watching http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/monsters-we-met/ http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/monsters-we-met/, that gives a better overview of the ecological impact of man across ages.
- theon144 15y ago>"Eve became very, very sick. Patrick ... worked every night for a month desperately trying to cure her. ... Eventually, based on gut instinct, Patrick concocted a mixture that included calcium and nectar and fed it to his patient, drop by drop, as she lay curled up in his hand." They look just about damn disgusting, but the mental image produced by that paragraph was just so... heart-warming.
- kpanghmc 15y agoFrom the Wikipedia article on Dryococelus australis [1] "The ultimate goal is to produce a large population for re-introduction to Lord Howe Island if the project to eradicate the invasive rats is successful." I wonder what the 347 residents of Lord Howe Island think about this? It's an amazing story and all, but I sure wouldn't want a bunch of these insects introduced into my neighborhood. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dryococelus_australis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dryococelus_australis
- agrover 15y agoAt what point do we consider those 347 residents as an invasive species?
- ArbitraryLimits 15y agoIt hardly seems fair to consider them an invasive species without considering all humans one as well.
- Gormo 15y agoAlong with every other species in existence.
- WiseWeasel 15y agoWhy wouldn't you want them? They seem harmless.
- olalonde 15y agoCockroaches are harmless as well... A lot of people instinctively find most insects repulsive. No rational argument is going to convince them otherwise.
- WiseWeasel 15y agoCockroaches inside your house are a sanitation issue, since they drop feces everywhere. Beyond that, they can knock themselves out.
- xbryanx 15y agoPics of Ball's Pyramid from Bryden Allen, one of the first people to summit this wicked place: http://www.uq.edu.au/nuq/jack/Bryden.html http://www.uq.edu.au/nuq/jack/Bryden.html
- Schwolop 15y agoBryden is my uncle, and although I knew he'd climbed a lot of cool stuff in his time (Centrepoint Tower in Sydney, for example), I'd never realised he'd done Ball's Pyramid. Now I'll actually have an interesting conversation with him for once!
- defrost 15y agoThere's an underground film "The only building I ever wanted to climb" showing the summiting of Centrepoint Tower after your uncle's attempt. The overhang of the restaurant base was what stopped him from going further, later parties had to pull the blueprints of the building and make up some rings to slot into the rails underneath. See: http://brydenallen.com/sandstone_and_clock-towers.pdf http://brydenallen.com/sandstone_and_clock-towers.pdf
- andrewkreid 15y agoSummit is a verb now?
- chad_oliver 15y agoIt has been for a while, in certain dialects. One of the wonderful things about english is that it evolves.
- xbryanx 15y agohttp://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/summit?show=1&t=1330718262 http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/summit?show=1&...
- ranit8 15y agoDisclaimer: English is not my first language. In my experience, I see it's very, very common to turn a noun as a verb, in informal contexts. Do you people still bother to make a distinction?
- gcb 15y agoStart up idea #769 Something that annihilates both mice AND giant insects
- tommypjr 15y agoholy cow batman, am i happy to get out of there!
- vl 15y agoWouldn't it be wonderful if this article was titled "Giant insect, presumed extinct for 80 years, rediscovered, reproduces in the zoo"?
- verelo 15y agoI love stories like this! I can understand how difficult these guys will be to introduce back into their original habitat...there will have to be extensive investigation into if they will hurt the local economy (i.e. will they eat plans that people sell for profit or use for food). Australia hasnt had a good history of introducing or removing animals (take those rats as an example, and then consider the Cain toad..not cool) Just imagine how fulfilling it felt as the first insect escaped from its vacuum pack...serious wow moment i imagine. I wish i was that valuable to this world...
- yaix 15y ago1k+ points wow, looks like HN hackers really like bugs...