7 ms·

4,061.8 km with 0 L fuel, 12 years ago (2011). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokai_Challenger https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokai_Challenger The best ICE stil

• nomel 3y ago
  > The Tokai Challenger covered the 2,998 km (1,858 mi.) off in 29 hours 49 minutes and it took an average speed of 100.54 km/h (62 mph). Wow, faster too! When comparing the aerodynamics of a dude in a jacket to a wing, I suppose being an average of 20mph faster makes sense.
• nickff 3y ago
  But the article isn't about an internal combustion engine, it's about a company that makes aftermarket fuel tanks, which chose to celebrate an anniversary by setting a record. Why did you feel the need to wrap your environmentalist polemic in such a complicated metaphor?
  • phowat 3y ago
    Nitpick, Acerbis doesn't make aftermarket fuel tanks. They make racing suites, gloves, helmets, things like that.
    • nickff 3y ago
      Ah, I thought they made the ones listed on their website under their brand; are these white-label products or something? https://www.acerbis.com/en/motorsport/plastics/fuel-tanks https://www.acerbis.com/en/motorsport/plastics/fuel-tanks
      • fsckboy 3y ago
        I think from now on they might white label your response, call it acerbiç
• spookie 3y ago
  That's impressive, nevertheless I also find this pretty cool. Must have taken a lot of hard work to pull it off.
• serf 3y ago
  >The best ICE still isn't cool weird metaphor. Given that ICE isn't going anywhere for some time I wish that people would realize that the choices are never a binary "perfectly clean EV" vs. "Coal-powered tree crusher" -- advancement in ICEs still represent an environmental benefit to the world. The Honda Monkey is one of the most efficient ICE vehicles that a consumer could hope to find, but i'll bite : where might I pick up a Tokai Challenger? The way towards EV isn't by demonizing the things that have made the world tick throughout every industrialized society, it's by incentivizing the use of alternatives.
  • dieselgate 3y ago
    Thanks for mentioning this, could not have worded it better. I see EVs being shipped/distributed all the time on top of ICE semi-trucks
    • photonerd 3y ago
      And the goal is to make those EV Semis… they just aren’t yet
  • ant6n 3y ago
    Where will u pick up that Honda Monkey with 100L tank? …see how that is a non argument? Anyway, in the next 20 years, virtually all ICE vehicles need to go away. There’s basically no option for them except perhaps e-fuels, but given the 5x energy use compared to EVs, they will have extremely limited scope.
    • jebarker 3y ago
      > Anyway, in the next 20 years, virtually all ICE vehicles need to go away. Is this actually possible? i.e. are there actually enough resources and production capacity to replace all ICE vehicles on the road in two decades. I remember hearing Elon Musk suggest it'd take about double that.
      • ThrowAway1922A 3y ago
• adolph 3y ago
  An advantage of the Honda Monkey 125 over science projects is that it is a workable product that is economically viable even in relatively resource constrained parts of the world. The Monkey 125 has peak power of 7.5 kW and an area of 1.7 m x 0.75 m or 1.3 m^2 [0,1]. The sun delivers a theoretical maximum of 1.3 kW per m^2. In the same area as a Monkey 125 the max solar energy would be 1.7 kW, or 23% of the Monkey 125's peak power (which was probably all used as the team travelled over mountains). Fraunhofer claims a photovoltaic cell with 47% efficiency so a solar Monkey would have about a tenth of the petrol Monkey's ability to move. 0. Specific model used was probably a variant of this Honda, not the OG Monkey that stopped production in 1999: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Grom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Grom 1. https://www.hondaprokevin.com/2021-honda-monkey-125-review-specs-motorcycle https://www.hondaprokevin.com/2021-honda-monkey-125-review-s... 2. https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/05/30/fraunhofer-ise-achieves-47-6-efficient-for-iii-v-four-junction-cpv-cell/ https://www.pv-magazine.com/2022/05/30/fraunhofer-ise-achiev...
  • ilyt 3y ago
    I think the bigger problem is that the rider covers more of the era; if you were able to get even 1.5kW off a small vehicle like that just leaving them outside would likely be enough to recharge enough battery for the journey back (if living close enough). ...but having electric bike/scooter just connected to charger is far more practical way to do it
    • adolph 3y ago
      Yes, integrating an energy capture device is not optimal for many/most use cases. A vehicle operating within civilization is better served by having means to receive and store energy. Of energy storage mechanisms, chemical seems more advantageous than kinetic or pressure. From there the question becomes one of ionic or covalent. Covalent has a higher energy density, which is why tanks of hydrocarbons are so ubiquitous.
• avgcorrection 3y ago
  Our whole global supply-chain is centered around fossil fuels. Don’t be so smug about high-tech electric vechicles.
  • sn0wf1re 3y ago
    1700s: Our whole global supply-chain is centered around trade winds. Don’t be so smug about high-tech fossil fuel vehicles.
    • avgcorrection 3y ago
      Hmm, what? Electric vehicles are part of that supply chain, deeply. They are high tech vehicles, not locally-sourced-and-produced gadgets. It’s the pot calling the kettle black! If you need it spelled out.
      • nl 3y ago
        The parent is making the analogy that back then supply chains were powered by wind. Change happens. Electric trucks are becoming available. Heavy transport trains are now electric: https://thedriven.io/2022/01/19/mining-giant-bhp-orders-electric-trains-for-wa-iron-ore-rail-network/ https://thedriven.io/2022/01/19/mining-giant-bhp-orders-elec... https://www.australianmining.com.au/fortescue-battery-electric-train-next-stop-infinity-and-beyond/ https://www.australianmining.com.au/fortescue-battery-electr... https://www.railtech.com/rolling-stock/2022/03/04/australian-mining-company-works-on-infinity-train-using-gravity-to-regenerating-batteries/?gdpr=deny https://www.railtech.com/rolling-stock/2022/03/04/australian...
        • avgcorrection 3y ago
          Fair point. If things like EVs transition from the environmentally bad practices into sustainable ones then my point will be moot. If you are to make a better world you have to build it out of the flawed one, right?
    • SoftTalker 3y ago
• capitainenemo 3y ago
  You could have a clean ICE using synthetic fuel, and a dirty electric using electric generated from natural gas or coal (like the large majority of electricity around me). I don't think ICE automatically means dirty. It's still an incredible energy density and simple distribution mechanism for energy that could potentially be harvested cleanly. We should focus on cleaning up production of fuels too. Actually, as the costs of fossil fuels rise, and costs of energy production drop, synthetics are becoming more and more viable. Could be very soon... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32231353 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32231353
  • nl 3y ago
    Synthetic fuel still generates CO2. That's always worse than green electricity, although as you point out maybe comparable to dirty electricity sources.
    • capitainenemo 3y ago
      It generates CO₂ that was previously absorbed. So. Neutral. No worse than green electricity. And yes. Far better than dirty electric sources.
      • lambda 3y ago
        Growing crops for biofuel is more land intensive, and thus involves cutting down more forest and removing carbon sinks, than the equivalent solar power. Yes, bioruels are better than fossil fuels, but worse than clean electricity. Anyhow, it's not an either/or. ICE vehicles will be with us for a while, so it's better to use more efficient ones, but we also need to be replacing as many as possible with electric. Biofuels are better than fossil fuels, but most ICE engines run on gasoline, and can't run on 100% biofuels efficiently and cleanly.
        • capitainenemo 3y ago
          I wasn't referring to biofuels. I was referring to pure synthetics like in the HN link I provided. Those require no crop land. Essentially conversion of solar energy into chemical batteries. ICE is treated as equivalent to fossil fuel because that's our main current method of producing the fuel, but it's just a really reliable, high energy density, chemical "battery". What matters is finding clean ways to replace that. Or other options. Aluminium/Air say... Also, if it turns out biofuels is the answer (and IMO synthetic fuel production seems way more efficient in the long run), there are ways to reduce the externalities. Using land that wouldn't be used for crops, growing the plants or algae without use of fossil fuels. And of course if you're going for externalities, most forms of green energy have them too...
• lambda 3y ago
  I'm a big proponent of EVs, I drive an EV car and work on EV aircraft, but they aren't yet ready to replace every segment of the market. Electric motorcycles are only just becoming viable, and are a lot more limiting compared to electric cars. And an ICE motorcycle can be a lot more fuel efficient, and is also lower carbon impact to manufacture, and takes up less space on the street and to park. For a single occupancy vehicle, an ICE motorcycle is a lot cooler than an ICE car; and depending on the use, could even be better than an EV car. I am hopeful that within about 5-10 years, battery technology and prices will improve to the point that electric motorcycles actually become viable. But for now, buying a gas sipping Honda Monkey and commuting to work on it could be a big step up over a car.
• lmm 3y ago
  A 169mpg motorbike (and note that that's a real-world stock model that you can buy and go shopping on) likely has significantly lower lifetime CO2 emissions than any mainstream electric cars. ICE is a big problem but giant heavy vehicles are a bigger one.