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To keep Americans happy about the over 3/4 Trillion dollars we spend on defense every year? “You spend a lot, but you get the best!” sounds a lot better than “

To keep Americans happy about the over 3/4 Trillion dollars we spend on defense every year? “You spend a lot, but you get the best!” sounds a lot better than “You spend a lot, but we still suck!”

echelon 3y ago
> “You spend a lot, but you get the best!” sounds a lot better than “You spend a lot, but we still suck!” This argument doesn't make any sense. The US military is better than the next top three militaries combined. The Ukraine war is showing the superiority of decades old Western tech.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  That doesn’t stop the DoD from wanting Americans to know that fact, because that’s how they’re funded.
- heavyset_go 3y ago
  It can show that the best still isn't good enough for some scenarios, including this scenario where unmanned aircraft are entering US airspace unimpeded. The US military might be better than the rest, but they were still defeated by poor people in the desert with some Casio watches and decades' old AKs. Similarly, it seems that small drones are another potential avenue of exploitation in asymmetric warfare.
- CapricornNoble 3y ago
  > The US military is better than the next top three militaries combined. Partially due to institutional experience and economies of scale (for certain capabilities). We probably still exceed what the next top 3 powers (China, Russia, India, BTW) are spending in PPP terms, so it shouldn't be that surprising. > The Ukraine war is showing the superiority of decades old Western tech. For every video of HIMARS blowing up a Russian ammo depot, there's a video of Ka-52 helicopters popping M2 Bradleys from 5+ km away.[1] M777s were lauded for their accuracy....until they broke. [2] Ukrainian brigades have been lavishly equipped with Western armored vehicles and they've bounced off a brick wall of positively-ancient minefields and artillery, very similar to the defense-in-depth that the Soviets used to defeat the Germans at Kursk ...in 1943.[3] This conflict is so complex in terms of difficult-to-measure soft factors that are influencing the battlefield (training, maintenance, corruption, NATO ISR support, information operations/propaganda, etc.), that drawing conclusions about the merits of individual technical systems or especially the overall tech base of the two main powers (Russia vs "the West") as a whole is....unwise. [1]https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraines-armor-appears-to-have-a-russian-attack-helicopter-problem https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraines-armor-appears... [2]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/ukraine-artillery-breakdown.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/ukraine-artillery-brea... [3]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/ukraine-counteroffensive.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/ukraine-coun...
- themagician 3y ago
  The war in Ukraine is showing that the "superpowers" aren't so super. It's showing just how much of the military superiority is propaganda and nothing more. But we already knew that, because the US just went through what Russia is now going through. The US just lost a 20 year war in Afghanistan against cave dwellers with Soviet-era rifles, homemade explosives and random bits from the bottom of a toolbox. You'd think maybe they'd have busted out the ray guns or spaceships instead of taking the L.
  - _kbh_ 3y ago
    > The US just lost a 20 year war in Afghanistan against cave dwellers with Soviet-era rifles, homemade explosives and random bits from the bottom of a toolbox. To be fair the US left Afghanistan and the remaining Afghani army crumbled to the taliban pretty quickly. I’d say the two situations are very different, the US successfully occupied a country that was ~7000km from them. The Russians have so far failed to take a city that’s ~200km from their own border in about 1 and a half years.
    - themagician 3y ago
      To be even more fair, the US lost the War in Afghanistan. It's an unambiguous Taliban victory. That's how it will read in every history book that doesn't have an American flag and a bald eagle on it. 20 years there and all the US did was create a whole new generation of terrorists who will spend the rest of their lives seeking revenge.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago
        We lost, but it wasn't a military loss, it was a catastrophic failure of diplomacy. We had control for a long time.
        themagician 3y ago
        It was a military loss. When one military quits and runs away really fast that’s a loss. And it’s not the first time. When the US loses they hold a parade and say, “We left.” Such a joke. And American citizens never hold their government accountable. Instead they just believe the BS and do it all over again. Kind of amazing, really. No shame.

echelon 3y ago

> “You spend a lot, but you get the best!” sounds a lot better than “You spend a lot, but we still suck!” This argument doesn't make any sense. The US military is better than the next top three militaries combined. The Ukraine war is showing the superiority of decades old Western tech.

sokoloff 3y ago
That doesn’t stop the DoD from wanting Americans to know that fact, because that’s how they’re funded.
heavyset_go 3y ago
It can show that the best still isn't good enough for some scenarios, including this scenario where unmanned aircraft are entering US airspace unimpeded. The US military might be better than the rest, but they were still defeated by poor people in the desert with some Casio watches and decades' old AKs. Similarly, it seems that small drones are another potential avenue of exploitation in asymmetric warfare.
CapricornNoble 3y ago
> The US military is better than the next top three militaries combined. Partially due to institutional experience and economies of scale (for certain capabilities). We probably still exceed what the next top 3 powers (China, Russia, India, BTW) are spending in PPP terms, so it shouldn't be that surprising. > The Ukraine war is showing the superiority of decades old Western tech. For every video of HIMARS blowing up a Russian ammo depot, there's a video of Ka-52 helicopters popping M2 Bradleys from 5+ km away.[1] M777s were lauded for their accuracy....until they broke. [2] Ukrainian brigades have been lavishly equipped with Western armored vehicles and they've bounced off a brick wall of positively-ancient minefields and artillery, very similar to the defense-in-depth that the Soviets used to defeat the Germans at Kursk ...in 1943.[3] This conflict is so complex in terms of difficult-to-measure soft factors that are influencing the battlefield (training, maintenance, corruption, NATO ISR support, information operations/propaganda, etc.), that drawing conclusions about the merits of individual technical systems or especially the overall tech base of the two main powers (Russia vs "the West") as a whole is....unwise. [1]https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraines-armor-appears-to-have-a-russian-attack-helicopter-problem https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraines-armor-appears... [2]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/ukraine-artillery-breakdown.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/ukraine-artillery-brea... [3]https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/ukraine-counteroffensive.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/26/world/europe/ukraine-coun...
themagician 3y ago
The war in Ukraine is showing that the "superpowers" aren't so super. It's showing just how much of the military superiority is propaganda and nothing more. But we already knew that, because the US just went through what Russia is now going through. The US just lost a 20 year war in Afghanistan against cave dwellers with Soviet-era rifles, homemade explosives and random bits from the bottom of a toolbox. You'd think maybe they'd have busted out the ray guns or spaceships instead of taking the L.
- _kbh_ 3y ago
  > The US just lost a 20 year war in Afghanistan against cave dwellers with Soviet-era rifles, homemade explosives and random bits from the bottom of a toolbox. To be fair the US left Afghanistan and the remaining Afghani army crumbled to the taliban pretty quickly. I’d say the two situations are very different, the US successfully occupied a country that was ~7000km from them. The Russians have so far failed to take a city that’s ~200km from their own border in about 1 and a half years.
  - themagician 3y ago
    To be even more fair, the US lost the War in Afghanistan. It's an unambiguous Taliban victory. That's how it will read in every history book that doesn't have an American flag and a bald eagle on it. 20 years there and all the US did was create a whole new generation of terrorists who will spend the rest of their lives seeking revenge.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      We lost, but it wasn't a military loss, it was a catastrophic failure of diplomacy. We had control for a long time.
      - themagician 3y ago
        It was a military loss. When one military quits and runs away really fast that’s a loss. And it’s not the first time. When the US loses they hold a parade and say, “We left.” Such a joke. And American citizens never hold their government accountable. Instead they just believe the BS and do it all over again. Kind of amazing, really. No shame.