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I don't know how this does not exacerbate the housing problem in Canada. It's terrible here. I own a rowhouse in a decent neighborhood of a middle-sized city in

I don't know how this does not exacerbate the housing problem in Canada. It's terrible here. I own a rowhouse in a decent neighborhood of a middle-sized city in Canada. Prices have doubled since 2017. People moving to the same unit as mine have Teslas, Mercedes, BMWs. These people are making upwards 200k in combined income. The situation is dire here. My household income sits comfortably in the top 5% earning bracket and there is no way we can afford a bigger home even with a substantial equity in our current house. We've been looking into places 40, 50 minutes outside of the SUBURB we live (not downtown) and the prices are slightly lower but not enough to justify the move. Tell me how this will happen the situation of Canadian families here? The strategy of pumping immigrants into the system is not sustainable. At some point, you need to have a sustainable strategy with a TFR > 2.1. We need babies, not immigrants.

Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago
I agree with you, but not sure on the conclusion. The housing problem needs to be addressed if we have more immigrant or not. The renting prices doubled in Vancouver, I have no idea how people are living there right now, given the median income
rdevsrex 3y ago
Well then you know which party to vote for if that's one of the most important issues for you. Or at least, which one not to vote for.
- bryanlarsen 3y ago
  Note that housing is a provincial jurisdiction, so your provincial and municipal votes are the ones that matter, not your federal votes.
  - Tiktaalik 3y ago
    Sort of, except that the Federal government controls all sorts of things that influence housing development, such as taxation and significantly contributes to infrastructure spending. When we look at the last time an enormous amount of apartments were being built in this country, through the 60s and early 70s, the Federal government was deeply involved both in directly subsidizing coops and non-profit housing and also through tax expenditure which aided market housing. There were a great deal of federal tax incentives to build market housing, many of which no longer exist. Basically Chretien got the Feds entirely out of housing during the austerity budgets of 1993, housing construction plunged for decades and decades and now we seem to somehow have an enormous shortage. The Feds also are in control of Indigenous reserves, so a failure to build housing there is their fault.
- bonadrag 3y ago
  > Well then you know which party to vote for if that's one of the most important issues for you. Or at least, which one not to vote for. No major party that I know of have a coherent strategy to solve the housing crisis and the TFR issue. None. They all have contradicting ideas embedded in their policies. Usually it is a mix of more incentive to own property (e.g. incentives to first-buyers, incentive to construction companies, etc) while also increasing immigration to record levels, what changes is the flavour of immigrants they prioritize (different sectors of the economy, more refugees, etc).
- theironhammer 3y ago
  There's no one to vote for. All the parties favour lots and lots of immigration.
- Fervicus 3y ago
  Sad truth about "democracy" - people keep thinking that the other party will fix their problems but it's always more of the same. Rinse and repeat.
martythemaniak 3y ago
It's almost as if making it expensive (development charges) and largely illegal to build housing could result in an increase in prices. But yeah, let's blame the bad immigrants and get rid of them, they're not good immigrants like yourself.
- bonadrag 3y ago
  > It's almost as if making it expensive (development charges) and largely illegal to build housing could result in an increase in prices. I don't live in a major city, land is not a problem here, building permits is not an issue.
pixel3234 3y ago
Increase density. More people per room > more profit > more bubble! Cut unprofitable people, around 4% of all deaths are from euthanasia. I really do not understand why people still can have any illusions about Canadian government after last 3 years.
whywhywhydude 3y ago
I wonder why Canadians always look at housing from the demand perspective. What about supply? Canada is big. Unless everyone is trying to live in Vancouver and Toronto, there is more than enough space to build houses. Do you not have enough construction workers to build houses?
- bonadrag 3y ago
  That is an excellent question. As usual, there are many factors that contribute to the current housing situation. On the supply side, I feel a major issue is lack of qualified workers. And I am not sure immigration can solve this problem easily unless you are prepared to accept lower quality housing. It is not a coincidence that specialized trades like electrician, heavy machine operators, roofers are not immigrants. The standards are higher here. In the developing world, standards are much sloppier. So it isn't simply a "plug-and-play" situation. There are other issues though. I know that input prices have skyrocketed. To me, the focus on the demand side is becuase it is easier to solve whereas the supply issues are more structural.
  - pcthrowaway 3y ago
    Are the standards for electricians, heavy machine operators, roofers somehow higher than software engineering, such that immigrants are more than capable of software engineering but apparently not trades?
    - 8note 3y ago
      Yes. In Canada, you don't do software engineering because that would require a license. Software skirts the regulation where electricians cant
- preommr 3y ago
  You don't understand. There's layers of rot that have created an untenable situation. The past few years Canada has become all about taking shortcuts and juicing numbers as much as possible. Bad decisions and incompetence create a feedback loop where we dig even deeper. If we built more houses, it would devalue the rest of the housing market - just for a start, it would wipe out the retirement plans for millions. It's not going to happen. It's a depressing downwards spiral where there is no easy exit. Not to mention that Canada wouldn't be able to execute that kind of plan because different parts of the government are trying to do different things.
ne0flex 3y ago
Very much agree. I'm a Canadian that moved to the US for better career / pay. Working in finance / VC, I thought I'd be able to buy a house in Ottawa after a few years. Even making upwards of USD $150K + bonus, I can't justify buying a home there to move back. My parents purchased a home in Ottawa for ~$250K around 2011 and their neighbor recently sold their house for $1.2M. Also, Canadian salaries are, for the most part, garbage compared to the US. My friend is programmer in the US makes almost as much as I do. Meanwhile, his brother is also a programmer for the same company but in the Canadian branch, doing similar work but his salary is closer to CAD $90K. The whole immigration thing in Canada honestly feels like an attempt at wage supression. The local Walmart in Ottawa is now like 60% Temporary Foreign Workers working the bottom jobs for minimum wage, though I guess their visa is tied to employment so they're willing to accept some abuse. I wonder what effect this no-job, no-worries visa will have.
- tivert 3y ago
  > My parents purchased a home in Ottawa for ~$250K around 2011 and their neighbor recently sold their house for $1.2M. Holy crap, I'm speechless. That's some bubble.
  - mcast 3y ago
    That type of home appreciation happens in larger US real estate markets as well, assuming you're willing to put a few hundred thousand into renovations. Everything has shot up tremendously post-COVID.
    - pcthrowaway 3y ago
      Nothing in the U.S. compares to the Canadian housing bubble
      - FalconSensei 3y ago
        I guess because Canada only has like... 6 large cities? (1 million+ people)[0] edit: also... not only a matter of size. But a lot of areas in Canada are just way too cold, so ppl just don't want to be there? I'm in Vancouver, lived in Toronto for a year, but I don't see anywhere else besides Vancouver that I would like as much as here - for the green areas, mountains, ocean, and milder winter and summer. Toronto weather is bad, either too cold, or too hot. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_population_centres_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_population...

Fire-Dragon-DoL 3y ago

I agree with you, but not sure on the conclusion. The housing problem needs to be addressed if we have more immigrant or not. The renting prices doubled in Vancouver, I have no idea how people are living there right now, given the median income

rdevsrex 3y ago

Well then you know which party to vote for if that's one of the most important issues for you. Or at least, which one not to vote for.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
Note that housing is a provincial jurisdiction, so your provincial and municipal votes are the ones that matter, not your federal votes.
- Tiktaalik 3y ago
  Sort of, except that the Federal government controls all sorts of things that influence housing development, such as taxation and significantly contributes to infrastructure spending. When we look at the last time an enormous amount of apartments were being built in this country, through the 60s and early 70s, the Federal government was deeply involved both in directly subsidizing coops and non-profit housing and also through tax expenditure which aided market housing. There were a great deal of federal tax incentives to build market housing, many of which no longer exist. Basically Chretien got the Feds entirely out of housing during the austerity budgets of 1993, housing construction plunged for decades and decades and now we seem to somehow have an enormous shortage. The Feds also are in control of Indigenous reserves, so a failure to build housing there is their fault.
bonadrag 3y ago
> Well then you know which party to vote for if that's one of the most important issues for you. Or at least, which one not to vote for. No major party that I know of have a coherent strategy to solve the housing crisis and the TFR issue. None. They all have contradicting ideas embedded in their policies. Usually it is a mix of more incentive to own property (e.g. incentives to first-buyers, incentive to construction companies, etc) while also increasing immigration to record levels, what changes is the flavour of immigrants they prioritize (different sectors of the economy, more refugees, etc).
theironhammer 3y ago
There's no one to vote for. All the parties favour lots and lots of immigration.
Fervicus 3y ago
Sad truth about "democracy" - people keep thinking that the other party will fix their problems but it's always more of the same. Rinse and repeat.

martythemaniak 3y ago

It's almost as if making it expensive (development charges) and largely illegal to build housing could result in an increase in prices. But yeah, let's blame the bad immigrants and get rid of them, they're not good immigrants like yourself.

bonadrag 3y ago
> It's almost as if making it expensive (development charges) and largely illegal to build housing could result in an increase in prices. I don't live in a major city, land is not a problem here, building permits is not an issue.

pixel3234 3y ago

Increase density. More people per room > more profit > more bubble! Cut unprofitable people, around 4% of all deaths are from euthanasia. I really do not understand why people still can have any illusions about Canadian government after last 3 years.

whywhywhydude 3y ago

I wonder why Canadians always look at housing from the demand perspective. What about supply? Canada is big. Unless everyone is trying to live in Vancouver and Toronto, there is more than enough space to build houses. Do you not have enough construction workers to build houses?

bonadrag 3y ago
That is an excellent question. As usual, there are many factors that contribute to the current housing situation. On the supply side, I feel a major issue is lack of qualified workers. And I am not sure immigration can solve this problem easily unless you are prepared to accept lower quality housing. It is not a coincidence that specialized trades like electrician, heavy machine operators, roofers are not immigrants. The standards are higher here. In the developing world, standards are much sloppier. So it isn't simply a "plug-and-play" situation. There are other issues though. I know that input prices have skyrocketed. To me, the focus on the demand side is becuase it is easier to solve whereas the supply issues are more structural.
- pcthrowaway 3y ago
  Are the standards for electricians, heavy machine operators, roofers somehow higher than software engineering, such that immigrants are more than capable of software engineering but apparently not trades?
  - 8note 3y ago
    Yes. In Canada, you don't do software engineering because that would require a license. Software skirts the regulation where electricians cant
preommr 3y ago
You don't understand. There's layers of rot that have created an untenable situation. The past few years Canada has become all about taking shortcuts and juicing numbers as much as possible. Bad decisions and incompetence create a feedback loop where we dig even deeper. If we built more houses, it would devalue the rest of the housing market - just for a start, it would wipe out the retirement plans for millions. It's not going to happen. It's a depressing downwards spiral where there is no easy exit. Not to mention that Canada wouldn't be able to execute that kind of plan because different parts of the government are trying to do different things.

ne0flex 3y ago

Very much agree. I'm a Canadian that moved to the US for better career / pay. Working in finance / VC, I thought I'd be able to buy a house in Ottawa after a few years. Even making upwards of USD $150K + bonus, I can't justify buying a home there to move back. My parents purchased a home in Ottawa for ~$250K around 2011 and their neighbor recently sold their house for $1.2M. Also, Canadian salaries are, for the most part, garbage compared to the US. My friend is programmer in the US makes almost as much as I do. Meanwhile, his brother is also a programmer for the same company but in the Canadian branch, doing similar work but his salary is closer to CAD $90K. The whole immigration thing in Canada honestly feels like an attempt at wage supression. The local Walmart in Ottawa is now like 60% Temporary Foreign Workers working the bottom jobs for minimum wage, though I guess their visa is tied to employment so they're willing to accept some abuse. I wonder what effect this no-job, no-worries visa will have.

tivert 3y ago
> My parents purchased a home in Ottawa for ~$250K around 2011 and their neighbor recently sold their house for $1.2M. Holy crap, I'm speechless. That's some bubble.
- mcast 3y ago
  That type of home appreciation happens in larger US real estate markets as well, assuming you're willing to put a few hundred thousand into renovations. Everything has shot up tremendously post-COVID.
  - pcthrowaway 3y ago
    Nothing in the U.S. compares to the Canadian housing bubble
    - FalconSensei 3y ago
      I guess because Canada only has like... 6 large cities? (1 million+ people)[0] edit: also... not only a matter of size. But a lot of areas in Canada are just way too cold, so ppl just don't want to be there? I'm in Vancouver, lived in Toronto for a year, but I don't see anywhere else besides Vancouver that I would like as much as here - for the green areas, mountains, ocean, and milder winter and summer. Toronto weather is bad, either too cold, or too hot. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_population_centres_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_population...