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This kind of stuff puts me off from wanting to work at FB. If I got really good at working with these tools (or fell in love with this tooling), I wouldn't real

This kind of stuff puts me off from wanting to work at FB. If I got really good at working with these tools (or fell in love with this tooling), I wouldn't really be able to go back to working "in the real world"

skizm 3y ago
Most (all?) of these are open source and can be used outside of Meta infra. https://github.com/facebook/sapling https://github.com/facebook/sapling
- patrec 3y ago
  > Mononoke is the server-side component of Sapling SCM. > While it is used in production within Meta, it currently does not build in an > open source context and is not yet supported for external usage.
  - tekknolagi 3y ago
    You can still use sapling with existing Git repos
voidfunc 3y ago
No see, what happens is you leave then go to some other company and complain about how shitty their tools are then build a crappy half-baked version of whatever you had at $BigTechCorp and when shit hits the fan you boomerang back to $BigTechCorp for a sweet promo and raise.
- stcroixx 3y ago
  I avoid hiring people coming from places like this for reasons similar. Extends past tools into libraries and frameworks, databases and other middleware, developer and business workflows. Only knowing proprietary stuff is a handicap. Assuming that proprietary stuff is superior because the big ad companies prefer it is even worse.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
naru_s 3y ago
What you are assuming those tools are completely unique and there aren't any open source alternatives, which is not the case
ksec 3y ago
Unpopular opinion. May be this is a feature not a bug? They want to filter out some Resume-Driven developers.
- nicce 3y ago
  … lock developers into the ecosystem and prevent them leaving, since their knowledge is not so valuable elsewhere. A bit cynical, but maybe not so unpopular opinion. Meta as business is all about locking users to the ecosystem.
  - SamuelAdams 3y ago
    Same thing applies to most government jobs. The tech is so out of date / niche that you become un-hire-able with those skills.
    - nicce 3y ago
      Unless you hit a job on some consult firm which offers special knowledge about all these!
quartz 3y ago
It's true. Exiting FB's incredible in-house information & developer tools culture is for many people one of the hardest things about leaving. Ex-fb groups maintain lists of potential "in the wild" replacements for each tool but very few are up to the task (pun intended).
- mrits 3y ago
  It doesn't sound different than working anywhere else for an extended time. You get used to a certain way of doing things.
- disgruntledphd2 3y ago
  I still miss tasks, five plus years later.
wussboy 3y ago
For me the barrier to working at Facebook is the fact their product is causing so much harm in our world, from elections to the environment to mental health to the breakdown of social capital. I know I’ll be downvoted for taking an ethical rather than financial or technological position, but ethics matter. Especially in technology and finances.
- phyrex 3y ago
  It's also doing a lot of good. It's in the nature of any broadcasting and communications platform
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    "drunk driving may kill a lot of people, but it also helps a lot of people get to work on time, so, it;s impossible to say if its bad or not,"
    - lostmsu 3y ago
      Never actually saw the skip parent post quantify harm vs good and yet.
    - Kilenaitor 3y ago
      Lmao that is ridiculously unfair since you're starting with a near-universally agreed bad thing. Better analogy augmenting yours: just cars. Accidents between cars or cars and pedestrians kill lots of people every year. This works with every tech. Phones have made it easier to coordinate crimes. Printing press and even televisions made mass propaganda possible. There are always tradeoffs.
    - dnissley 3y ago
      "driving helps a ton of people get around, but sometimes people drive drunk and kill other people, so it's definitely unforgivingly bad"
      - giraffe_lady 3y ago
yodsanklai 3y ago
> If I got really good at working with these tools (or fell in love with this tooling), I wouldn't really be able to go back to working "in the real world" SWEs need to learn new tools all the time. This shouldn't be a concern. Besides, it's not like "the real world" only use a single tool. Each company has their own tweaks, even those using open source stuff.
- shepherdjerred 3y ago
  Big tech has _way_ better tools than what most companies use. At Amazon so many concerns were taken care of for you like: * How do I setup a new project? * How do I build code? * How do I pull internal dependencies? * How do I publish artifacts? Every company makes a horrible copy of these systems with off-the-shelf tools. At Amazon there were certainly flaws in the internal tools, but overall it was much better than the "real world".
  - xuancanh 3y ago
    I'm not quite sure if it is true that those tools are better than "the real world". There are many options for each of the steps that you are mentioned, old systems mixed with new solutions, so developers have to learn all of them and onboard to each of the system that they decided to use. While they provide some templates and scripts here and there to solve these problems, most of them are not production ready, and doesn't provide a holistic experience. I work for smaller companies before and the platform teams did a much better job to provide a unified experience across those steps.
SilverBirch 3y ago
Isn't this the Google curse? Companies hire an engineer who was at Google and suddenly find the Google engineer is building out all the Google internal infrastructure within the new company and because You Aren't Google, it sucks.

skizm 3y ago

Most (all?) of these are open source and can be used outside of Meta infra. https://github.com/facebook/sapling https://github.com/facebook/sapling

patrec 3y ago
> Mononoke is the server-side component of Sapling SCM. > While it is used in production within Meta, it currently does not build in an > open source context and is not yet supported for external usage.
- tekknolagi 3y ago
  You can still use sapling with existing Git repos

voidfunc 3y ago

No see, what happens is you leave then go to some other company and complain about how shitty their tools are then build a crappy half-baked version of whatever you had at $BigTechCorp and when shit hits the fan you boomerang back to $BigTechCorp for a sweet promo and raise.

stcroixx 3y ago
I avoid hiring people coming from places like this for reasons similar. Extends past tools into libraries and frameworks, databases and other middleware, developer and business workflows. Only knowing proprietary stuff is a handicap. Assuming that proprietary stuff is superior because the big ad companies prefer it is even worse.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

naru_s 3y ago

What you are assuming those tools are completely unique and there aren't any open source alternatives, which is not the case

ksec 3y ago

Unpopular opinion. May be this is a feature not a bug? They want to filter out some Resume-Driven developers.

nicce 3y ago
… lock developers into the ecosystem and prevent them leaving, since their knowledge is not so valuable elsewhere. A bit cynical, but maybe not so unpopular opinion. Meta as business is all about locking users to the ecosystem.
- SamuelAdams 3y ago
  Same thing applies to most government jobs. The tech is so out of date / niche that you become un-hire-able with those skills.
  - nicce 3y ago
    Unless you hit a job on some consult firm which offers special knowledge about all these!

quartz 3y ago

It's true. Exiting FB's incredible in-house information & developer tools culture is for many people one of the hardest things about leaving. Ex-fb groups maintain lists of potential "in the wild" replacements for each tool but very few are up to the task (pun intended).

mrits 3y ago
It doesn't sound different than working anywhere else for an extended time. You get used to a certain way of doing things.
disgruntledphd2 3y ago
I still miss tasks, five plus years later.

wussboy 3y ago

For me the barrier to working at Facebook is the fact their product is causing so much harm in our world, from elections to the environment to mental health to the breakdown of social capital. I know I’ll be downvoted for taking an ethical rather than financial or technological position, but ethics matter. Especially in technology and finances.

phyrex 3y ago
It's also doing a lot of good. It's in the nature of any broadcasting and communications platform
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  "drunk driving may kill a lot of people, but it also helps a lot of people get to work on time, so, it;s impossible to say if its bad or not,"
  - lostmsu 3y ago
    Never actually saw the skip parent post quantify harm vs good and yet.
  - Kilenaitor 3y ago
    Lmao that is ridiculously unfair since you're starting with a near-universally agreed bad thing. Better analogy augmenting yours: just cars. Accidents between cars or cars and pedestrians kill lots of people every year. This works with every tech. Phones have made it easier to coordinate crimes. Printing press and even televisions made mass propaganda possible. There are always tradeoffs.
  - dnissley 3y ago
    "driving helps a ton of people get around, but sometimes people drive drunk and kill other people, so it's definitely unforgivingly bad"
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago

yodsanklai 3y ago

> If I got really good at working with these tools (or fell in love with this tooling), I wouldn't really be able to go back to working "in the real world" SWEs need to learn new tools all the time. This shouldn't be a concern. Besides, it's not like "the real world" only use a single tool. Each company has their own tweaks, even those using open source stuff.

shepherdjerred 3y ago
Big tech has _way_ better tools than what most companies use. At Amazon so many concerns were taken care of for you like: * How do I setup a new project? * How do I build code? * How do I pull internal dependencies? * How do I publish artifacts? Every company makes a horrible copy of these systems with off-the-shelf tools. At Amazon there were certainly flaws in the internal tools, but overall it was much better than the "real world".
- xuancanh 3y ago
  I'm not quite sure if it is true that those tools are better than "the real world". There are many options for each of the steps that you are mentioned, old systems mixed with new solutions, so developers have to learn all of them and onboard to each of the system that they decided to use. While they provide some templates and scripts here and there to solve these problems, most of them are not production ready, and doesn't provide a holistic experience. I work for smaller companies before and the platform teams did a much better job to provide a unified experience across those steps.

SilverBirch 3y ago

Isn't this the Google curse? Companies hire an engineer who was at Google and suddenly find the Google engineer is building out all the Google internal infrastructure within the new company and because You Aren't Google, it sucks.