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We should shift our perspective on our native-born citizens. Because they're such a massive economic drain we should _stop_ investing in them completely. I know
by stickyricky 3y ago
We should shift our perspective on our native-born citizens. Because they're such a massive economic drain we should _stop_ investing in them completely. I know it sounds radical but hear me out. We can realize higher economic utility for our society if A) we stop all investments in non-skilled, non-working-age citizens and B) export those people who are a burden on our society (children, the elderly, the sick, people who enjoy EDM, you get it).
In this way Canada can achieve higher economic utility for itself. I'm imagining a system where everyone in the society is brought in on a temporary basis. They are imported after their post-secondary education and exported maybe 10 years before their retirement. In this way we avoid all the costs associated with having "people" in our country and instead we reap the economic reward of their labor!
I guess I shouldn't say "our" country. I would be exported fairly quickly... But! To those glorious (and brave) few on the executive committee entrusted to leading Canada Inc. through these difficult times, the society they get to inhabit will undoubtedly be the economic envy of the world!
- coding123 3y agoFavorite comment all year.
- weard_beard 3y agoA modest proposal. The back-ronym for it should be S.W.I.F.T.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> I'm imagining a system where everyone in the society is brought in on a temporary basis This is how the Gulf economies work. (Also the Vatican, but for different reasons and at a different age.)
- unsupp0rted 3y agoIt's the Gig-economy model of citizenship and social welfare and it'll take Canada by storm
- geodel 3y agoFully agree on it. Kids are another great source of profit center that have not been fully utilized. Also we need to explore if un-exportable olds can be mined for parts. That would another win-win.
- red-iron-pine 3y agoThe children yearn for the mines...
- Obscurity4340 3y agoMining is the new Minecraft, kids. Just with less lootboxes and more teeny-tiny coffins.
- throwaway5959 3y ago[flagged]
- rnk 3y agoThat's an actual true statement though, you are breaking our sarcastic train of thought.
- throwaway5959 3y agoRed states are a form of sarcasm.
- JCharante 3y agoHow can you export the people who are a burden? You can’t leave them stateless.
- stickyricky 3y agoI have two words for you. Tundra. City. That's right; we did it. We took the Canada you love and made it _more_ Canada. Up to _twice_ as cold as the previous generation of cities. More that _six_ times as remote. No other competitor is offering this kind of performance. I want to be clear this is a _generational_ leap over the competition. We're at least five years ahead of other major countries. And, boy, you better believe we patented it!
- 13of40 3y agoI'm picturing a rail line that just goes north, and in every town along the way the people are a few years older than the last. You can still live wherever you want, but the subsidies for your age group make it a sweet deal to keep moving down the line toward Centenarian City. Known for its large glue factory and landfills.
- peteradio 3y agoFinally my patent for cowcatchers that work inside the train will pay off!
- petre 3y agoSounds a lot like Snowpiercer.
- red-iron-pine 3y agoThis already exists, and is the CN rail line to Hay River. The young folk eventually float down to Edmonton or Calgary.
- 10000truths 3y agoHe's being sarcastic.
- swader999 3y agoWe already have some of the most progressive euthanasia programs in the world. No need to get more creative than that.
- unsupp0rted 3y agoTo be fair, those euthanasia programs are only used when someone is either terminally ill or is a healthy-ish 31-year-old who can’t afford housing. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/assisted-suicide-canada-toronto-gofundme-b2091802.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/assisted-s...
- goatsi 3y agoThe person in the article applied because of health problems. >Denise said she hasn’t cancelled her MAID application because she still suffers from painful chronic health problems that haven’t been properly handled.
- unsupp0rted 3y agoShe's not going around doing cartwheels, but in a civilized country she wouldn't be applying for medically assisted dying. Her health problems are, at least arguably, manageable in fairly straightforward ways via a rational medical system. She'll never have healthy-millionaire quality of life, but this isn't what medically-assisted dying is meant for.
- goatsi 3y agoIn this case what she recognized as the treatment is managed by something other than the medical system. I would assume this is the same in other places, unless doctors in Europe can write prescriptions for apartments.
- kneebonian 3y agoDon't forget the veterans who've asked for ramps. "Canada Veteran Affair's department: Finishing what the enemy started!"
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- AwaAwa 3y agoCanada Inc.
- mabbo 3y agoI wholeheartedly appreciate your response. Make no mistake, I'm a hippie leftist even by Canadian standards. My argument is one I like to use with more right wing friend who oppose immigration.
- pcthrowaway 3y agoWhat about your hippie leftist friends who are begging for the government to pause or slow immigration (other than for refugees) right now?
- JimtheCoder 3y agoI can't be the only one who had to read this a few times before I realized it was sarcasm...
- goodpoint 3y agoOn HN?
- babyshake 3y agoAnd a computer could be set and programmed to accept factors from youth, health, sexual fertility, intelligence, and a cross section of necessary skills. Of course it would be absolutely vital that our top government and military men be included to foster and impart the required principles of leadership and tradition. Naturally, they would breed prodigiously, eh? There would be much time, and little to do. But ah with the proper breeding techniques and a ratio of say, ten females to each male, I would guess that they could then work their way back to the present gross national product within say, twenty years.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- TheCapn 3y ago>sexual fertility You think our government respects people taking time to rear offspring? Of course not! They're not contributing their labour to our economy while being parents so we've structured the incentives to start families in such a way that they're driven back to work ASAP. Strictly speaking: having children is bad for our labour force and should be avoided.
- Loughla 3y agoThis is the paradox of the child in modern society. In terms of across the board consumption, there is nothing as productive as a modern child. Clothes, consumable goods, travel sports, recreations, hobbies, and diversions all lead straight to the consumption that is so vital to our economy. And yet, with sicknesses, evening activities, and other problems, there is nothing that disrupts an individual worker's productivity as a child. I'm not sure I am smart enough to come up with an equation, but, it's in there somewhere to tell us whether a child is a net positive or negative influence on our Economy than the other.
- bhouston 3y ago> there is nothing that disrupts an individual worker's productivity as a child. I have two kids and it isn't that bad at all. Very small loss of productivity for me except when I took parental leave for 3 months. I have grandparents that live nearby and they can help with sickness and other babysitting though.
- robofanatic 3y ago> B) export those people who are a burden on our society (children, the elderly, the sick, people who enjoy EDM, you get it). This is so ridiculous! Export where?? Isn't it what Hitler tried to do?
- mikrotikker 3y agoExport to Britain. They're the kings subjects right? Let ol Charlie look after em out he's got enough cash.
- nottorp 3y agoWho was it that wrote "A Modest Proposal", Jonathan Swift?
- Xorakios 3y agoPotato prices have been very high this year. And also, Swift's was always a very s(ali|oyl)ent Green proposal is appropriate to Make Room! Make Room!
- curiousllama 3y agoThis is an elite comment
- lambdasquirrel 3y agoYou kid, but it’s a valid argument. I’ve known a good few Canadians over the years who went down to the U.S. for work experience and some have even lost their PRs because of some newer policy requiring that they spend half their time in Canada. It’s something that really backfired hard. I’m actually really sad and disappointed for Canada that it is like this. Historically it’s much easier to leave the country than enter it if you’re a skilled person. This is a big deal. Back in the early 2010s, software developers moving to SF pretty much willed into existence the tech industry up there. Before then, companies would start in SF and move down to the valley. If skilled folks want to move to your area, it can be a boon, and if I’m not mistaken, Canadian tax policy is better suited to redistribute the gains from that than U.S. tax policy.
- glerk 3y ago> Canadian tax policy is better suited to redistribute the gains from that than U.S. tax policy Nothing attracts profitable businesses and high earning individuals more than a tax policy optimized to redistribute those gains.
- lambdasquirrel 3y agoThat may be so but the policy doesn’t have to make it worse.
- Scoundreller 3y ago> some have even lost their PRs because of some newer policy requiring that they spend half their time in Canada. Not a new policy. Gotta put in your time as a PR to qualify for a citizenship (that mostly can’t be taken away from you ever). It anything, the physical presence requirements have been diluted because politicians realize they’re more likely to get your vote if they have you citizenship.
- xracy 3y agoI think, in your response of sarcasm you are brushing over a lot of valid points the OC is making. They're not saying that we should get rid of natural-born folks. They're just saying that often times the people who most want their nation to not allow other folks in, don't appreciate all of the things that those other folks provide for them. i.e. Immigration is subsidizing a lot of the things you probably enjoy about your life, and we should probably be considering it more as a blessing than a curse. Nobody is trying to replace you. They're just trying to help you, and provide a better opportunity for their children once they've bought into the same system your parents bought into.
- mistrial9 3y ago> Nobody is trying to replace you. They're just trying to help you LOL
- xracy 3y agoYeah, I knew there'd be someone on here still terrified immigrants are trying to replace them. IDK what TF that even means, but I can promise you no one thinks that if they just remove all of the existing Canadians that they're somehow, ship of Theseus-style, going to have a brand new Canada. And while they may not explicitly be trying to help you, their goals are such that "helping Canada helps themselves." Way more than you give them credit for. But that's okay, please join the fear-mongering of "the great replacement."
- mikrotikker 3y agoEven the UN is fear mongering about "the great replacement". https://press.un.org/en/2000/20000317.dev2234.doc.html https://press.un.org/en/2000/20000317.dev2234.doc.html
- dimmke 3y agoThis type of immigration is strictly for economic and quality of life purposes. It’s pretty bonkers to say people who immigrate to the US on H1-B visas are doing so out of an altruistic desire to “help” anybody but themselves and their families (not that there’s anything wrong with that.) People seem to still prefer immigrating to the United States over Canada even though Canada’s immigration system is far more reasonable. They’re trying to scoop people up with policies like this but I think it’s worth taking a step back and reflecting on why that is. I think a big part of it is Canada’s cost of living especially wrt housing is even worse than the US’s and salaries are lower. And I say this as an expat currently living in Mexico with a fair amount of Americans and Canadians. So this isn’t a pro United States comment, it’s just a reality check. The US has draconian immigration rules and hoops to jump through… but it seems like the demand is such that they can get away with it.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- Barrin92 3y agoIt's precisely the immigrants who come to a country like Canada, education already completed who pay for the investments for others. An adult Indian programmer costs the Canadian taxpayer nothing but contributes immense amounts, and is even more likely to start a business than a native. This notion that Bob from Podunk rural Canada with an IQ of 80 competes with an immigrant with a PhD makes no sense. The latter finances the welfare of the former. You need to create wealth first before you can redistribute it and keeping the strongest wealth creators out of the country is one of the stupidest damage you can inflict on yourself. This sarcasm drenched replacement fantasy is the exact opposite of reality. Only if you have a strong economy you can continue to maintain public welfare.
- hello_moto 3y ago> and is even more likely to start a business than a native. That's too far fetched. They're more likely to start a company in their own country than Canada.
- Barrin92 3y agoThat's incorrect, Canada has literally published data on the question: "Garnett Picot and Yuri Ostrovsky revealed based on data from 2016 that immigrants are 41.7 per cent more likely than Canadians who were born in Canada to either start a business or be self-employed.[...]Leaving aside self-employment, immigrants were found to be 30 per cent more likely to own a privately-incorporated business that provided jobs for others than were native-born Canadians." And maybe even more important, from US data: "Immigrants have started more than half (319 of 582, or 55 per cent) of America’s start-up companies valued at $1 billion or more," IIRC among AI related startups the number of immigrant founders or co-founders is even close to two-thirds. Attracting top tier human capital is pretty much North America's greatest advantage. https://www.immigration.ca/immigrants-start-more-businesses-and-refugees-are-more-loyal-employees-studies-reveal/ https://www.immigration.ca/immigrants-start-more-businesses-...
- hello_moto 3y agoI'm referring to Indian Programmer who came to Canada to start their own company to stay with the context. Not "in general, Immigrants formed corp more than Canadians born in Canada". US is different. Cost of business in Canada is high due to red-tapes and lower RoI than US (plus less Capital to go around). The romanticization of Indian programmers creating a successful tech company in Canada (just like they did in US) is just that for now, romanticization. Indian, specifically Punjabis, done better as Entrepreneur in non-tech in Canada. Hence, far fetched.
- oatmeal1 3y agoSo the point your making is that the government shouldn't concern itself with increasing the number of citizens that are net contributors to the system?
- pyuser583 3y agoThis works really well places like Saudi Arabia and UAE.
- jamiek88 3y agoA modest proposal indeed!
- hgsgm 3y agoWho does a government serve? Its citizens, or its brand / self? Citizenship was the world's first labor union. Inherited citizenship is nepotism. People love their children (genes).
- htss2013 3y agoAs long as you do a land acknowledgement first, I agree this policy would indeed be optimal.
- nunyabid5655 3y agoFalse