7 ms·

I think the true tragedy of public education in the US is the sentiment of the public itself. The thinking that it's a conveyer belt where we put our children "

by jrsdav 3y ago

I think the true tragedy of public education in the US is the sentiment of the public itself. The thinking that it's a conveyer belt where we put our children "on-rails" for 6 hours a day and they'll come out the other side with a strong education and high test scores. This is bolstered by yet more poor reasoning that any failures to reach that metric must surely be the fault of the workers in the factory. Workers who don't even get paid a livable wage but yet have to front the cash for tools just to do the job. Absent from your comment is the reality of just how much a shit job it is to be a teacher under normal circumstances, with the pandemic being unequivocally abnormal. Teachers are still stuck in this whirlwind trying to figure out how to teach in the post-pandemic ruins that's not just our education system, but our public sentiment that is bursting with shitty expectations.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
> I think the true tragedy of public education in the US is the sentiment of the public itself. Are there any other countries that don't rely heavily on public education? Europe seems to lean on schools even more for shaping society, especially Swiss schools, which aggressively integrate immigrants into a common Swissness model. China, well, not 6 hours, maybe 8 hours, and boarding schools are common, see mom and dad on the weekend. They probably weathered COVID better than we did, however, just given that they went to back school much earlier or never left. Families with more resources/education did OK during COVID, the real negative effects were felt in lesser resourced families, who depended on the schools more and weren't able to provide alternatives because they had to work their non-WFH friendly jobs. Of course the teachers weren't the perpetrators here, I'm not sure the unions were either (I don't equate teachers with teacher unions, its not like they have so much choice in union representation).
bob_theslob646 3y ago
>This is bolstered by yet more poor reasoning that any failures to reach that metric must surely be the fault of the workers in the factory. Even if the workers in the factory made faulty parts, in the United States, it would be incredibly hard to fire the workers. Their are no incentives on either side, for the worker nor the student. Their needs to be higher pay to attract people to want to do the job.
Scubabear68 3y ago
The problem here is we are required by law to pay taxes for schools, and the people running the schools have almost zero accountability on anything. In our tiny regional district, the yearly school budget is $25 million a year, for less than a thousand students. Our combined municipal budgets, by comparison, are about $6 million. For that $25 million a year, we are forced to pay, we get crap teachers and kids who can’t read or do math. We are now in private school, for a total of $25,000 a year we pay ourselves, and we still have to pay the school taxes too. It is absolutely outrageous.
- mensetmanusman 3y ago
  Public schools have less accountability than private schools. Because the one local government is the customer for public schools, and the student is the customer for private schools. Parents have more micro accountability actions than governments.
- singleshot_ 3y ago
  You know what’s truly amazing is that in some states, a person like me (no kids) pays taxes into your kid’s private school. If it seems nuts that you have to pay twice to get one quality service, imagine how I feel about paying once for a kid to go to religious school. Agreed on the outrageous part, though!
  - Solvency 3y ago
    Not all private schools are religious schools.
    - singleshot_ 3y ago
      Correct. I'm not sure I have a huge problem with non-religious schools, but on the other hand I'm not really sure to whom they're accountable or how they spend that money. I am not completely sold.
      - simfree 3y ago

by jrsdav 3y ago

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

> I think the true tragedy of public education in the US is the sentiment of the public itself. Are there any other countries that don't rely heavily on public education? Europe seems to lean on schools even more for shaping society, especially Swiss schools, which aggressively integrate immigrants into a common Swissness model. China, well, not 6 hours, maybe 8 hours, and boarding schools are common, see mom and dad on the weekend. They probably weathered COVID better than we did, however, just given that they went to back school much earlier or never left. Families with more resources/education did OK during COVID, the real negative effects were felt in lesser resourced families, who depended on the schools more and weren't able to provide alternatives because they had to work their non-WFH friendly jobs. Of course the teachers weren't the perpetrators here, I'm not sure the unions were either (I don't equate teachers with teacher unions, its not like they have so much choice in union representation).

bob_theslob646 3y ago

>This is bolstered by yet more poor reasoning that any failures to reach that metric must surely be the fault of the workers in the factory. Even if the workers in the factory made faulty parts, in the United States, it would be incredibly hard to fire the workers. Their are no incentives on either side, for the worker nor the student. Their needs to be higher pay to attract people to want to do the job.

Scubabear68 3y ago

The problem here is we are required by law to pay taxes for schools, and the people running the schools have almost zero accountability on anything. In our tiny regional district, the yearly school budget is $25 million a year, for less than a thousand students. Our combined municipal budgets, by comparison, are about $6 million. For that $25 million a year, we are forced to pay, we get crap teachers and kids who can’t read or do math. We are now in private school, for a total of $25,000 a year we pay ourselves, and we still have to pay the school taxes too. It is absolutely outrageous.

mensetmanusman 3y ago
Public schools have less accountability than private schools. Because the one local government is the customer for public schools, and the student is the customer for private schools. Parents have more micro accountability actions than governments.
singleshot_ 3y ago
You know what’s truly amazing is that in some states, a person like me (no kids) pays taxes into your kid’s private school. If it seems nuts that you have to pay twice to get one quality service, imagine how I feel about paying once for a kid to go to religious school. Agreed on the outrageous part, though!
- Solvency 3y ago
  Not all private schools are religious schools.
  - singleshot_ 3y ago
    Correct. I'm not sure I have a huge problem with non-religious schools, but on the other hand I'm not really sure to whom they're accountable or how they spend that money. I am not completely sold.
    - simfree 3y ago