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The fact is that the vast majority of people who go into "education" do it because it is the one of the least demanding career paths. Yes, there are some "true

The fact is that the vast majority of people who go into "education" do it because it is the one of the least demanding career paths. Yes, there are some "true believers" who go into teaching because they truly seek to make a difference, but they are the tiny minority. Majoring in education is even less rigorous than majoring in liberal arts and is more akin to majoring in gender studies or basket weaving. This is even more true of the administrators who bloat the schools and drain crucial funding from actual teachers and classrooms while adding nothing in terms of educational value (and often detracting from it). But teachers certainly aren't entirely to blame for the mess we've gotten into to - there is more than enough blame to go around. The unfortunate truth is that our educational system is horribly broken, corrupt and inefficient. We hear far more from the leadership of the teacher's union and from school administrators about diversity nonsense than we do about the fact that they are churning out a generation of kids who are not literate and cannot do basic math. The "remote learning" nonsense was the final nail in the coffin as far as many public schools were concerned. They were already on life support before the pandemic when it came to academic achievement, and "remote learning" pulled the plug entirely. "Chronic school absenteeism", defined as missing at least 15 days of school per year (3 school weeks) is 16% nationally, and much higher in many large cities. Achievement is so bad that states like New York are lowering their standards across the board so that it appears that more students are proficient. When a massive number of kids aren't even showing up at schools, teachers aren't very well educated, administrators are more interested in promoting their social and political agenda than they are in teaching children how to read and write and standards for achievement are being lowered and/or eliminated you end up with the situation we have today. https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/new-york-lowers-bar-student-math-english-17841120.php https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/new-york-lowers-bar-...

delecti 3y ago
You're taking it as a given that people perceive education to not be a demanding career, and I find that incredibly absurd. I've known since I was a young child that teachers didn't get paid much, and since I was a teen that the job required a lot of extra work for grading and buying your own supplies. As an adult I've known teachers, and those things are very clearly true. I don't know what world you're from, but I want to live where everyone "knows" that teaching is easy and lucrative.
- StanislavPetrov 3y ago
  >You're taking it as a given that people perceive education to not be a demanding career, and I find that incredibly absurd. No, I went a state school here in New York for a graduate degree in a program that included many teachers that were seeking to get their Master's degree (which is required to teach here in New York within 5 years of becoming a teacher). All of the teachers in the program were actively employed as teachers at the time of their enrollment. Most of them were barely literate. At least two I would classify as not literate. Not a single one could be characterized as "well educated". None were especially intelligent. They were all nice, well-meaning people - but they were certainly not the best and brightest. >I don't know what world you're from, but I want to live where everyone "knows" that teaching is easy and lucrative. I certainly didn't say it was lucrative to be a teacher (though it can be after many years in the system). Most of them were paid very poorly. But it is a stable career. And it is easy to keep your job - which doesn't mean it is an easy job to perform (it isn't).
- bamfly 3y ago
  > You're taking it as a given that people perceive education to not be a demanding career, and I find that incredibly absurd. It's comically wrong. People choosing education for that reason are in for a rude awakening. Many of that sort figure that out during their student-teaching phase, I suppose. Lots of teachers also leave within the first few years, and it's pretty much never because they found it too easy. It's a hard job, with an abusive strain of "you should make this sacrifice—for the children, you know, and of course we won't compensate you in any way, because we're not going to sacrifice for the kids, don't be silly" running through it, and bad pay, especially if you've got the kind of mind, interpersonal skills, and work-ethic we'd hope the median teacher would have. Reports I've heard of truly bad teachers in-the-wild are mostly ones who are power-tripping jerks who like being "liked" by (some of) the kids (and who are typically fairly dumb, besides), not ones who are hanging around for an easy job where they can sponge off the taxpayer, because that's not really what it's like. The bad ones who stick around, it's not mainly because admin can't get rid of them, but for the same "admin has no idea WTF is going on with them" visibility-problems that are also common in private industry, plus they aren't necessarily totally bad at the job, in the ways that are being measured. Teacher efficacy measurements keep being attempted, and keep turning out to be so noisy they're nearly useless—even ones you'd expect to work, turn out not to, when you look at the statistics. That part's an unsolved problem that, believe me, plenty of teachers wouldn't mind seeing solved (they don't like their bad co-workers, either) though none of them like it when crappy solutions are pushed, since, you know, they don't actually work and are highly likely to punish/reward practically randomly.
jmye 3y ago
> The fact is that the vast majority of people who go into "education" do it because it is the one of the least demanding career paths. I'll never understand why the people who think teachers are glorified babysitters complain that those glorified babysitters aren't dramatically improving test scores. To say nothing, of course, of the abject, utter nonsense that statement is. > diversity nonsense What, specifically, do you mean by that?
- gotoeleven 3y ago
  Ill bet most of these kids whose test scores were terrible had at least a few lessons on pronouns.
  - fineIllregister 3y ago
    We've had lessons on pronouns for at least since I've been in school.
    - mulletbum 3y ago
      I mean, I would hope so, considering pronouns are part of reading/writing education.
- StanislavPetrov 3y ago
  >I'll never understand why the people who think teachers are glorified babysitters complain that those glorified babysitters aren't dramatically improving test scores. Perhaps if you had better teachers, you'd understand the difference between explaining a situation and complaining about it. >What, specifically, do you mean by that? I mean that any school that is turning out a school population where less than 20% of the students can read and write at grade level should spend 0% of their time talking about pronouns, cultural or social issues of any kind.
  - bamfly 3y ago
    > I mean that any school that is turning out a school population where less than 20% of the students can read and write at grade level should spend 0% of their time talking about pronouns, cultural or social issues of any kind. About half of US adults can barely read, or can't at all. Another 25-30% can't read at a "high school level", which is not a high bar (as regarded by strong readers, anyway). Many of these were educated well before anyone was talking about "pronouns" in school. Maybe it was the student smoke breaks that were the education-ruining distraction, back then.

delecti 3y ago

You're taking it as a given that people perceive education to not be a demanding career, and I find that incredibly absurd. I've known since I was a young child that teachers didn't get paid much, and since I was a teen that the job required a lot of extra work for grading and buying your own supplies. As an adult I've known teachers, and those things are very clearly true. I don't know what world you're from, but I want to live where everyone "knows" that teaching is easy and lucrative.

StanislavPetrov 3y ago
>You're taking it as a given that people perceive education to not be a demanding career, and I find that incredibly absurd. No, I went a state school here in New York for a graduate degree in a program that included many teachers that were seeking to get their Master's degree (which is required to teach here in New York within 5 years of becoming a teacher). All of the teachers in the program were actively employed as teachers at the time of their enrollment. Most of them were barely literate. At least two I would classify as not literate. Not a single one could be characterized as "well educated". None were especially intelligent. They were all nice, well-meaning people - but they were certainly not the best and brightest. >I don't know what world you're from, but I want to live where everyone "knows" that teaching is easy and lucrative. I certainly didn't say it was lucrative to be a teacher (though it can be after many years in the system). Most of them were paid very poorly. But it is a stable career. And it is easy to keep your job - which doesn't mean it is an easy job to perform (it isn't).
bamfly 3y ago
> You're taking it as a given that people perceive education to not be a demanding career, and I find that incredibly absurd. It's comically wrong. People choosing education for that reason are in for a rude awakening. Many of that sort figure that out during their student-teaching phase, I suppose. Lots of teachers also leave within the first few years, and it's pretty much never because they found it too easy. It's a hard job, with an abusive strain of "you should make this sacrifice—for the children, you know, and of course we won't compensate you in any way, because we're not going to sacrifice for the kids, don't be silly" running through it, and bad pay, especially if you've got the kind of mind, interpersonal skills, and work-ethic we'd hope the median teacher would have. Reports I've heard of truly bad teachers in-the-wild are mostly ones who are power-tripping jerks who like being "liked" by (some of) the kids (and who are typically fairly dumb, besides), not ones who are hanging around for an easy job where they can sponge off the taxpayer, because that's not really what it's like. The bad ones who stick around, it's not mainly because admin can't get rid of them, but for the same "admin has no idea WTF is going on with them" visibility-problems that are also common in private industry, plus they aren't necessarily totally bad at the job, in the ways that are being measured. Teacher efficacy measurements keep being attempted, and keep turning out to be so noisy they're nearly useless—even ones you'd expect to work, turn out not to, when you look at the statistics. That part's an unsolved problem that, believe me, plenty of teachers wouldn't mind seeing solved (they don't like their bad co-workers, either) though none of them like it when crappy solutions are pushed, since, you know, they don't actually work and are highly likely to punish/reward practically randomly.

jmye 3y ago

> The fact is that the vast majority of people who go into "education" do it because it is the one of the least demanding career paths. I'll never understand why the people who think teachers are glorified babysitters complain that those glorified babysitters aren't dramatically improving test scores. To say nothing, of course, of the abject, utter nonsense that statement is. > diversity nonsense What, specifically, do you mean by that?

gotoeleven 3y ago
Ill bet most of these kids whose test scores were terrible had at least a few lessons on pronouns.
- fineIllregister 3y ago
  We've had lessons on pronouns for at least since I've been in school.
  - mulletbum 3y ago
    I mean, I would hope so, considering pronouns are part of reading/writing education.
StanislavPetrov 3y ago
>I'll never understand why the people who think teachers are glorified babysitters complain that those glorified babysitters aren't dramatically improving test scores. Perhaps if you had better teachers, you'd understand the difference between explaining a situation and complaining about it. >What, specifically, do you mean by that? I mean that any school that is turning out a school population where less than 20% of the students can read and write at grade level should spend 0% of their time talking about pronouns, cultural or social issues of any kind.
- bamfly 3y ago
  > I mean that any school that is turning out a school population where less than 20% of the students can read and write at grade level should spend 0% of their time talking about pronouns, cultural or social issues of any kind. About half of US adults can barely read, or can't at all. Another 25-30% can't read at a "high school level", which is not a high bar (as regarded by strong readers, anyway). Many of these were educated well before anyone was talking about "pronouns" in school. Maybe it was the student smoke breaks that were the education-ruining distraction, back then.