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Apple's union-busting practices violated employee rights at NYC store
- LatteLazy 3y agoSounds like Apple won this no? They prevented the union, which has given up, and their only punishment is to be told to stop doing something they should not have been doing anyway.
- beepbooptheory 3y agoWhile it does say the certain stores, like St. Louis, have given up due to Apple's antagonism, it also says: "Union efforts are slowly gaining ground at Apple stores across the country." Precedent like this can help future efforts in other places, at the very least. And in general, little back and forth events like this is maybe the best we can hope for in this world where actual worker leadership/autonomism is farther away than Mars. But yeah, at the same time, you can't help thinking still that Apple could probably just do whatever it wants indefinitely, and easily absorb these slaps on the wrist when they come about.
- sidewndr46 3y agoBut wouldn't the precedent be "Apple won, unions lost"? No one would look at this and go "damn the union really handed Apple a can of whoop ass!"
- smoldesu 3y agoThe precedent is that the NLRB has issued a warning past this point. Apple can respond however they want, but this is their shot across the bow.
- sidewndr46 3y agoBut to my knowledge an NLRB warning is no effect. It isn't like after the 3rd warning, Apple enters Chapter 7 bankruptcy automatically. If I was Apple's legal counsel, I'd be telling them we won this round.
- smoldesu 3y agoYou don't win any fight that ends in a concession. Apple was instructed to cease-and-desist; if they continue along their current path, they could be held liable for violating federal labor laws. Their legal council is probably doing the same thing they did with the Uighur labor allegations and the Foxconn suicides - begging Apple to denounce it publicly and blame each instance rather than admit systemic abuse. It's pretty much all Apple knows at this point.
- sidewndr46 3y agoIssuing a cease and desist letter to a serial union buster is like telling Ted Bundy he needs to stop killing people. He probably agrees, but certainly isn't going to stop.
- smoldesu 3y agoTed Bundy's story ends with him dying in government custody, so I'd agree that it's an apt metaphor.
- beepbooptheory 3y agoMaybe, but Apple is the only one that really needs to worry about PR anyway. Workers just need to know what they want. In terms of like broader cultural perception/what you see on the news, its a lost cause for workers anyway. But I don't see it as a problem long term: if you are doing something that makes the bosses angry and maybe incites certain PR efforts to, e.g., make it look like Apple "won" despite an overall hopeful, or at least nuanced, outcome, then it sounds like you are doing something right. Workers in general really have nothing to lose in terms of public perception. Consider all the discourse around tipping. Or consider what people say on this very site in some threads about worker rights. In general, people implicitly or explicitly feel that if you are striking/in a union/living on tips/etc, you have already lost some game and are a sore loser for wanting more. And if you pay attention to the news, this general idea is regularly enforced. This is all especially true in the US, not to mention tech-adjacent sectors. But again, not really a problem per se, just a certain kind of indicator.
- veave 3y agoI assume if it happens again they won't be so lenient.
- LatteLazy 3y agoSounds like they were lenient the first AND second time. But this time they really mean it. Assuming anyone will put their head in the noose and try to unionise a third time...
- wahnfrieden 3y agoThey’ve done so by breaking the law
- martin8412 3y agoStart giving fines as percentages of worldwide revenue like the EU does. Suddenly union busting won't seem to attractive if it costs 1% of worldwide revenue.
- moi2388 3y agoYes, and indeed use revenue rather than profit like it is now, since now they still make profits and have zero incentive to stop doing what they’re doing.
- lscdlscd 3y agoJust goes to show how effective unionizing is. Power to those workers! They're a key part in making Apple one of the most valuable companies in the world. They deserve a fair share.
- JimtheCoder 3y ago"They're a key part in making Apple one of the most valuable companies in the world." ...
- 0x5345414e 3y agoYeah I’m not sure I agree with that statement either…
- notwhereyouare 3y agolet go all of the employees that work for apple an see how long they are still in business. Don't think the CEO is making their iphones on the line
- JimtheCoder 3y ago"Don't think the CEO is making their iphones on the line" Neither are the people unionizing here...
- Kiro 3y agoWe're talking about Apple Stores, not Apple in general. I'm sure Apple would be fine if they closed all stores.
- ceejayoz 3y agoThe stores are a pretty critical component in their sales, marketing, and support cycles, and generally considered a big part of their current success.
- balozi 3y agoWhy doe Apple maintain retail stores anyway?
- brookside 3y agoHaving a place to go when one has a tech issue is a huge value addition for many Apple users. Repairs can be expensive (the solutions will lean towards "replace the entire motherboard"). But help at the genius bar from a real human can also be free. Compare this experience of what options one has if a hardware issue, or some software question, with a dell laptop. Availability of help at Apple stores is one reason I steer non-tech relatives towards Apple products, and helps justify premium pricing.
- deelowe 3y agoDoesn't Apple make good money on their "genius bar" services?
- mcpackieh 3y agoApple stores are a very substandard way of offering/providing support. Here is my real world example: I'm visiting my parents in suburban Pennsylvania when my laptop dies. I just looked up the nearest Apple Store, it's a 45 minute drive one-way, it would take an hour and a half in the car total just to get there, probably about $10 of gasoline too. Thankfully I had a Dell, so I called in the issue and later that day an independent repair man contracted by Dell came to my parents house and replaced the motherboard. Distance traveled by me: 0 miles. And mind, this was in a fairly densely populated area of an east coast state in America. Apple stores are even further away in most parts of the world. Here's another example, this time I had a macbook that needed a new battery. I was in Seattle this time, and had no car. The nearest Apple store was Apple University Village, and because I didn't have a car with me then it was a 30 minute bus trip (each way.) 1 hour total, and to make matters worse, I had to do this twice because the first time they told me they didn't even have the right battery in stock (even though I called first and had scheduled the first meeting.) So that's two full hours blown trying to get a new battery for my macbook, in one of the major tech cities of America. Abysmal!
- photochemsyn 3y agoYou know, Apple's shareholders and corporate board could be entirely replaced by AI and it wouldn't hurt the profitability of the company... and think of all the money that could be saved! They could invest in moving their entire production line back to the USA and then wouldn't have to worry about supply chain disruptions, while also expanding their research & development division to keep ahead of the competition. Why isn't this the top target for AI when it comes to replacing useless baggage in the corporate world?
- lennixm 3y agoUnfortunately you overestimate Apple's board compensation by at least 5 orders of magnitude...
- Aunche 3y agoI know I should be on the side of union organizers, but it's difficult to sympathize with them when they simultaneously try to portray themselves as David fighting Goliath, but also portray themselves as helpless victims when they get their flyers are taken down during break rooms and made to watch presentations.
- j_walter 3y agoI don't see a specific mention of what exactly they did that was violating the law. Employers are allowed to talk to their employees about why they don't think a union is in the best interest of everyone involved. You are right though, it won't be a popular opinion, but a union's strength should not be impacted by taking down fliers in a break room. There are also laws saying that the company can't lie to employees about what a union could mean, but unions are not held to the same standard.
- Timon3 3y ago> You are right though, it won't be a popular opinion, but a union's strength should not be impacted by taking down fliers in a break room. Why not? I don't see a way this makes sense unless we conveniently forget all about marketing, psychology and the like.
- j_walter 3y agoThis is not some fancy new phone...this is an almost permanent obligation you are placing on the company, the employees and future employees. The decision to join a union should be placed on facts and only facts.
- Timon3 3y ago> This is not some fancy new phone... Wow, so you seriously just ignore it all. Why do you think that humans are susceptible to marketing in the context of a phone, and not in unionization? Where is the difference? > this is an almost permanent obligation you are placing on the company, the employees and future employees. The decision to join a union should be placed on facts and only facts. Sure, but what if you suppress delivery of facts about unions while supplying your own counter-facts?
- antiutopian 3y agoOnce you start following/helping/participating in the labor movement it becomes clear that virtually every company will go to great lengths to stop a union from being formed and winning a contract, they will even break the law. The question for organizers is not "will this company do it?" but "what do we do about it when they do?"
- hourago 3y ago> they will even break the law This is probably true in the USA, as that laws seem to not be enforced. But if you enforce employee's protection laws companies will respect them.
- joker99 3y agoMost of them will. Some will still try to find a way around them or look for loop holes. But yes, the fact that most of them will respect them is a major win
- KennyBlanken 3y agoWalmart is infamous for shutting down stores that unionize. This can be particularly devastating to the community because Walmart's whole schtick is to wipe out every other business in the area through "dumping" - flooding the market with stuff sold at a loss until they drive the other companies out of business. So not only do a lot of people in town / the county lose their jobs, but they lose the only place to shop for a lot of things. Result? Anyone who talks about unionizing gets reported, or simply ostracized. "Shut the fuck up, Jim. You wanna get the place shut down? We'll all be driving an hour to get our groceries."
- derefr 3y agoSeems like the best game-theoretic strategy for small towns, would be to unionize whatever particular type of retail worker Walmart uses in advance, as a prophylactic to prevent Walmart from ever coming to town.
- 3y ago