10 ms·
RIF developer counters Reddit CEO’s claims
- jakelazaroff 3y agoIs anyone else having flashbacks to the freenode takeover?
- jmclnx 3y agoI did not think of this, but yes, seems the same. Will have to go looking and see what ended up happening with Freenode.
- wkat4242 3y agoWell that's easy. After the initial kicking of the old admins a community split was looming because not every project cared that much and some worried about the hassle of changing networks. But Lee sped things up considerably by deleting all user and channel registrations, leaving his last holdout supporters at the mercy of randos that happened to be the first to join the channel. That was basically the last drop and libera is now exactly like freenode was before he started stirring trouble. Only one or two projects went somewhere else (like alpine which went to oftc). But libera is just as well run as freenode was before the incident and after a month or so it was already like it never happened. Nobody even talks about it anymore, it's just over and done. It's the best outcome possible IMO. No dragged out legal battles, no months of toxicity. Just problem solved. Kudos to the admins who proved they were right all along and have the chops to run a network efficiently and create a great atmosphere without conflicts. And the new organization has a legal framework to prevent such a thing from happening again. Something tells me Reddit won't go that easily. Not only because there's no exact replacement ready (lemmy isn't really it) and because the management isn't likely to shoot themselves in the foot that badly.
- ParetoOptimal 3y agoWhat's freenode? ;)
- LoganDark 3y agoThey must be referring to some old version of Libera.Chat.
- meepmorp 3y agospez is the crown prince of reddit
- MikusR 3y agoWith freenode to libera you just changed server and registered a new account. All the channels/people were there. There is no alternative like that with Reddit/Twitter.
- courseofaction 3y agoIf 20m is paid, they'll double it next year. Reddit is just a landlord raising rents to unaffordable rates rather than evicting tenants. And they don't produce or moderate content. Rent-seeking middlemen. Fediverse socials are very nice once they're up and running, we need better default settings and easier inter-instance interaction for less technical users, but I'm optimistic they're a vast improvement on a centralized model. If you don't like your instance, you can pack up and leave.
- chii 3y ago> And they don't produce or moderate content. Rent-seeking middlemen. But they do pay for the physical infrastructure required to run reddit. I would consider that as part of production of the "content", even tho it's indirect.
- ummonk 3y agoThe prices they're charging for API access are wildly disproportionate to the cost of the physical infrastructure required to run the services.
- chii 3y agooh i'm sure they are charging up the wazoo, because they aim to make a profit off it, rather than to just sustain operations. I'm just refuting the fact that they're merely middlemen and is charging rent for no value delivered.
- Timon3 3y agoBut that's not accurate. If they wanted to profit off of it, they would have chosen a more reasonable price, which would still keep 3P clients alive, but paying a bit more than they earn through ads. They chose to set the price so high that it's not possible to run a 3P client anymore. It's not a profit motive, it's only about consolidation.
- 3y ago
- u10 3y agoBarring all of the arguments for or against why reddit is doing what it is doing, why does spez keep lying? Like he must realize that emails don't disappear and phone calls can be recorded?
- wetpaws 3y ago[dead]
- motoxpro 3y agoRight? He seems like a child. Of all people you would think the Reddit CEO would know that once seeming is on the internet it never disappears.
- noodleman 3y agoI think he knows but assumes that people will forget about it over time. It's worked for him in the past.
- tnecniv 3y agoI might be optimistic but I can’t see Huffman surviving this. If you’re on the board, do you want this clown as your CEO? Sure, maybe they back the API changes killing the apps, but he’s come across as a fall guy at best and grossly incompetent at worst.
- clnq 3y agoThis is not his first controversy, he has a history with twisting facts and trying to manipulate people. Including that incident where he edited comments of people criticizing him on Reddit. I would guess there is a lot more of this behaviour that doesn't surface publicly.
- FireBeyond 3y agoLet's not forget him being the head moderator of r/jailbait and several of the other more "problematic" subreddits.
- pityJuke 3y ago> Shu also tells me that RIF was paying a “sizable revenue share” to Reddit beginning in 2012, which was during Yishan Wong’s tenure as CEO. Shu says he says initiated the talks with Reddit to create the agreement, which allowed for the licensed use of Reddit’s trademarks. (At the time, the app was called “reddit is fun.”) Shu says Reddit terminated the agreement in 2016 — which was the year after Huffman took over as CEO. So, one of the app developers had a pre-existing agreement with reddit, to pay them money, well before this mess (yes, for the trademark, but still), and spez ripped up the agreement? What on earth? Also, spez, how hard is it to just... you know, not lie? Clearly there was a communication line.
- buildbot 3y agoYeah that part is really wild - there were making money already off a 3rd party app, then decided to NOT take their money in 2016, then not enforce any trademarks (assuming that was what the deal was for) for what, 7 years?! How is that not gross incompetence? Minority shareholder lawsuit territory? It's really clear that spez wants terminate any 3rd party clients whatsoever, I assume at this point any talk of app devs actually working with them is also a lie, as is the moderator tools and accessibility tools getting free API access. Finally, the initial email the RIF received is so egregious - IMMEDIATE COMPLIANCE REQUIRED, when they hadn't even changed their actual terms yet. Who would invest in a Reddit IPO now?! If they had done _nothing_ up to this point, I probably would have bought some, not that I am anyone of note, but I assume any serious fund would steer clear too at this point.
- shoreline12 3y ago> I said we are working with everybody who is willing to work with us, which includes many of the other third party apps With that kind of pricing?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- pat64 3y agoI feel like there should be a revolt not to reinstate the API for 3rd parties, but to put Huffman out on his ass. Dude has handled this situation so poorly that he’s no longer fit to be CEO of Reddit.
- mvdtnz 3y agoI am very confused about the name of this particular app. I haven't used it. I always thought it was "Reddit is Fun" (RIF). Then this week I learned it's actually "RIF is Fun" (RIF). Now in this article it's "RIF is Fun for Reddit" (RIFIFFR?)
- presbyterian 3y agoIt was originally Reddit is Fun, but then Reddit asked a bunch of app developers to change the names of their apps to make it clearer that they aren’t official or affiliated with Reddit directly, which is why most apps are called “X for Reddit”. Reddit is Fun was already usually called RIF, so it became a recursive acronym. Then I assume they added “for Reddit” for search/discover ability reasons
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- gremlinsinc 3y agoWhat reddit should've done. Created their own ad network, given 3rd party apps 50/50 split. Win/Win. Make that add network the only one allowed in mobile apps. At first it could just be an ad server over other ad networks, until the fill spots with their own ads.
- TX81Z 3y agoThe lying is so egregious, it’s like he thinks the truth is beneath him. I’m not an investment genius, but I’m not buying any stock of a company led by a petulant child. I do not think any rational investor is going to be impressed with this CEO come IPO time.
- twobitshifter 3y agoCan RIF and Apollo stand up a clone of reddit in reasonable time and point their clients that way?
- willhoyle 3y agoI’ve seen this suggested elsewhere but without content I don’t see this working out.
- chii 3y agoThe clone could use the slurped up reddit content from the various archive efforts prior. Then the clone could encourage, thru these third party apps, users to submit new content to itself, rather than to reddit.
- shagie 3y agoWho is going to moderate the clone? If the clone isn't moderated, we've got a clone of voat rather than reddit. If the clone is moderated... part of this was because people are saying that Reddit is profiting off of unpaid moderator work, right? How is the clone going to be financed? Are you going to sell ads on it? If so, who is handling that? ... and making sure that the advertisements don't show up where the advertisers don't want them to. Who is going to handle the inevitable legal takedowns for copyrighted works, trademark infringements, or things that may be illegal in some country? Is it going to serve porn in the Apple App Store? Standing up a clone is easy. Keeping it up with a healthy community there (even if you are able to grab all of the existing users of an app) and being able to afford to keep it running - that's the hard part.