18 ms·
Metformin shown to prevent long Covid
- toomuchtodo 3y agoImportant to note, it can also cause birth defects in male offspring when taken by fathers. https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/03/birth-defects-diabetes-drug.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2022/03/birth-defects... https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M21-4389 https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M21-4389
- farkanoid 3y ago[flagged]
- _Nat_ 3y agoThat study doesn't claim causation.
- carbocation 3y agoUnfortunately the press release—and the author quotes within it—are worded in such a way that it is implied.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y agoAs far as population studies go, this one seems pretty good though. There's a clear pattern attributable to the lifecycle of sperm, very large sample size, and pretty good controls. I would definitely take this study seriously, and I don't usually pay a huge amount of attention to population studies.
- unmole 3y ago> Men who filled metformin prescriptions before or after the three-month period of sperm development did not have offspring with a higher incidence of birth defects, the study found.
- slim 3y agowhat does that mean ? is there a season for sperm development ?
- 8note 3y agoIt's continuous. Mean make sperm constantly, and the sperm die constantly. What the study shows is that if there's an effect it would have to be in the short time between the sperm developing and dying
- JumpCrisscross 3y agoTL; DR Do not take if you're trying to impregnate someone. (Is that the right term? Get pregnant?)
- nielsbot 3y agohttps://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/impregnate#Verb https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/impregnate#Verb (Sense 1)
- MauranKilom 3y ago"impregnate" is not wrong per-se, but it is weird in placing the emphasis on only one of the two people required. Usually you'd say something like "trying for a child", I believe.
- resolutebat 3y agoIt's not weird in this case, because the drug specifically affects male sperm, and it's the man who impregnates the woman.
- relaxing 3y agoIt's weird regardless of the drug.
- 3y ago
- porphyra 3y ago[flagged]
- ianlevesque 3y ago> said that metformin's benefit is at least partly mediated by a near fourfold reduction in viral load. But sure, COVID is a fat people disease.
- nradov 3y agoObesity is a major risk factor for severe COVID-19 symptoms. https://www.science.org/content/article/why-covid-19-more-deadly-people-obesity-even-if-theyre-young https://www.science.org/content/article/why-covid-19-more-de...
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y agoThat's not the point GP was responding to though. OP was writing as if they just felt better because they were fat, regardless of whether covid had anything to do with it. That simply doesn't match with the study and just comes off like kneejerk fat shaming.
- x86x87 3y agoi think obesity is a risk factor but to call COVID a fat people disease is ignorant. There are many other risk factors (eg being immunocompromised) and you may get it (and long COVID) even without any risk factors.
- Apotheos 3y agoIt seems disingenuous to imply that the effects of COVID are not worsened by a high body fat percentage and / or poor physical health. COVID is not a fat persons disease, but as with most detrimental health episodes, the negative effects are greater in people with high body fat percentages.
- mtlmtlmtlmtl 3y ago
- thenerdhead 3y agoDoes it help those with long Covid?
- accrual 3y agoIt appears to be prophylactic, it reduces the occurrence of long Covid in those recently testing positive.
- thenerdhead 3y agoSurely it would be like other antivirals(paxlovid) which have shown to help certain long Covid phenotypes? I.e. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9537824/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9537824/ > Though not indicated for the treatment of PASC, the treating physician felt that her prolonged nasopharyngeal antigen positivity warranted the treatment. Indeed, the patient’s PASC symptoms fully resolved 3 weeks after completing antiviral treatment
- retrac 3y agoIt's not clear it's acting as an antiviral, in the classic sense of directly interfering with the virus, by directly bonding with and neutralizing viral proteins, or supplying lookalike proteins for the cells to make defective viral particles with. Metformin affects glucose metabolism. It may be similar to how metformin seems to help with HIV infection; an immune cell infected with HIV goes into metabolic overdrive as it starts producing virus. Metformin seems to block that boosting mechanism through its effect on glucose, preferentially on the most over-driven cells. A similar story with certain glucose-fed cancers, which metformin is also used in treating.
- thenerdhead 3y agoYeah that is fair. I think it is very uplifting that even though we don’t know the mechanism, it may be used for potential long Covid treatment
- cpncrunch 3y ago
- pbreit 3y agoIn my extended network of 1000+ people, I've heard of 2 that may have "long covid". Are people's experiences different?
- mjamesaustin 3y agoSignificant numbers of my network have SOME kind of reported issues long after infection. Most common is respiratory issues – reduced lung capacity, difficulty breathing, running out of breath more quickly during exercise, etc. That's not to say any of these are official diagnoses, but we still know relatively little about the long term effects of COVID.
- coolguy1982 3y agoI know a couple people in their 30’s struggling with long covid. One of them is a startup founder in SF and now has long covid and it’s been really terrible for them and their family. We speak often about it because I was out of work for months unable to function due to intense neurological inflammation. It greatly exacerbated what used to be a mild auto immune condition and I’m still traveling the country to get medical help and working from bed most days.
- Llamamoe 3y agoI know several dozen people. One person who is still unable to work after COVID in late 2021, and a fair amount of people, myself included, whose condition substantially worsened for indeterminate reason during the last few years. Most likely, the majority of people who are damaged by COVID aren't cases severe enough to label as "long COVID", and often just passed off as having become more depressed due to social distancing, etc. except they then don't recover with lifestyle improvement.
- ramraj07 3y agoYou know a 1000 people who will personally tell you if they have a disorder that’s to begin with hard to diagnose and to make worse also hotly debated as even existing at all? Given everything going against it, if two people actually have told you they have long Covid, what do you reckon the real number is?
- gnicholas 3y agoTLDR: > By day 300 of follow-up, 93 (8.3%) of 1,126 participants said they had received a diagnosis of long COVID by a provider. The cumulative incidence of long COVID by day 300 in those who took a 14-day course of metformin was 6.3% (95% confidence interval [CI], 4.2 to 8.2) compared to 10.4% (7.8 to 12.9) in the placebo group, or 39.4% lower. Interestingly, half of the participants in the study (which took place starting in December of 2020) were unvaccinated. The researchers noted that metformin appears to have reduced the viral load greatly. I wonder if that is equally true for vaccinated and unvaccinated patients. It would seem plausible (not a doctor) that the reduction in viral load is related to the lower incidence of long COVID. Now that we're in 2023, and pretty much everyone is either multiply-vaccinated or has had COVID, the study might turn out differently. If anyone has looked into the paper/data, I'd be interested to know whether the benefit is equal among vaccinated/non-vaccinated.
- carlmr 3y ago>Now that we're in 2023, and pretty much everyone is either multiply-vaccinated ~or~ and has had COVID multiple times Isn't this the most common demographic?
- kramerger 3y agoNot in places were vaccine rollout was quick and frictionless with good coverage, thus reducing probability of transmission of the main strain and early mutations. I think a lot of people in Northern Europe have either never had covid or had a mild possibly unnoticeable infection
- mensetmanusman 3y agoNo, the r0 is too high. Essentially everyone eventually gets Covid, vaccination or not, it's just that it's not worth testing continuously to see if your zero-symptom-life is currently infected.
- Izkata 3y ago
- seneca 3y ago[flagged]
- Llamamoe 3y agoThere are literally hundreds[1] of literature reviews and meta-analyses about long COVID alone, based on *thousands* of publications about it. Go read some. You don't get to go all "oh idk is there even any credible research about it" as if there's still any reasonable doubt that it's a real condition. There isn't. And fun fact, both depression and "psychosomatic" symptoms have in recent years been increasingly linked to underlying physiological pathology and are no longer considered psychogenic symptoms by many, to a point where it's seeming like "psychosomatic" has all along been an excuse to blame people for conditions healthcare has been unable or unwilling to diagnose and treat. [1] https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=7%2C39&q=allintitle%3A+%22long+COVID%22+%28review+OR+analysis%29&btnG= https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=7%2C39&q=all...
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago> You don't get to go all "oh idk is there even any credible research about it" as if there's still any reasonable doubt that it's a real condition. There isn't There's a lot of credible-sounding misinformation on this running around. Wouldn't be too harsh on OP.
- eschaton 3y agoThis is how you prevent the credible-sounding misinformation like this from running around.
- retrac 3y agoIt would be unusual if it wasn't real in some cases. Fatigue is common following viral infections, in general. It's not that unusual to be left very weak for months after a severe bout of influenza. The herpesviruses can do it too, as will most of the classics like measles, even a common cold if you're particularly unlucky. Just intuitively, a virus causes damage to the infected tissues. The more severe/long-lasting the infection before recovery, the more likely some of that damage is going to be permanent in the form of scar tissue, rather than normal healing. It almost certainly is associated with depression. Both in that if there is reduced lung function, etc. it may cause depression. But also in that depression can make an otherwise tolerable physical burden intolerable.
- nikolay 3y agoI wonder if other AMPK activators such as Berberine and Jiaogulan have the same effect.
- Alex3917 3y agoIs there a good explanation of the mechanism of action? Metformin is also a Mitochondrial Complex 1 inhibitor, so I would be curious about Annonaceous acetogenins.
- Animats 3y agoSome improvement, but not much. Still, this is progress and provides a line of attack to develop better drugs.
- shever73 3y agoInteresting, I wonder if this could help Dianna Cowern (Physics Girl on YouTube) who has been diagnosed with long COVID leading to ME/CFS.
- jonnycomputer 3y agoI also wondered whether this could be a treatment for long covid. I don't know enough about it's etiology to say; however, like you I was downvoted without any response. Which is sad and not constructive.
- shever73 3y agoTrue. I was hoping for a conversation about it, but never mind.
- petecooper 3y ago>Now that we're in 2023, and pretty much everyone is either multiply-vaccinated or has had COVID I'm a facilitator for a men's mental health talking group in my county. Sample size is small and not indicative, but there are a few people who are anti-vaccination, have continued to eschew popular science in favour of their trusted researchers, and are now assigning blame to almost any other person's illnesses as caused by "the vaccine". Edit: I'm getting downvoted, so I should clarify -- I'm not agreeing with this person at all, I'm vaccinated and boosted. Aside: one of the (anti-vaccination, anti-establishment) attendees has said that his (anti-vaccination, anti-establishment) trusted expert told him "the banks will collapse" on June 27th (he mentioned Santander specifically). So, now you know.
- sBqQu3U0wH 3y agoWell, I developed heart problems just after getting vaccinated so it's pretty hard for me not to agree when people speculate that some sudden death, severe illness or whatever at a young age may be due to the vaccination. I know I am biased, but how can I not be?
- asynchronous 3y agoSorry that happened to you, and equally sorry no one will take your concerns seriously because the narrative has already been decided against you.
- petecooper 3y agoFirstly, I'm sorry you've developed heart problems. That sucks. I can't imagine how that feels in real life, but I can fully understand how it changes your perspective on a lot of stuff. I should further clarify. My original comment was referring to a person who was saying, essentially, that if a person had been vaccinated, then any subsequent illness was a direct cause of the vaccine. His take was that any pre-existing condition was made worse, and the root cause of any kind of ailment was the Covid vaccine. Black & white, no room for discussion. I can see how my comment could be misinterpreted in a number of ways. I don't subscribe to his stance, but I'm absolutely open to the increasing body of evidence of post-vaccine and post-Covid medical issues that have and continue to arise. I have a friend who was a whip-smart and highly capable gastric surgeon. She was fully vaccinated, then got Covid (positive tests), now has many symptoms of long Covid, and she's medically retired at 34. She has to have 10 minute snoozes every 30 minutes during the day. No diagnosed pre-existing conditions, she was in tip-top health. I have absolutely no pro- or anti- agenda here, I was merely sharing some anecdotal evidence. Most importantly, I hope you can find your way with your health stuff.
- _ugfj 3y agoRead carefully this is only for the unvaccinated.
- thesaintlives 3y ago[flagged]
- acqbu 3y ago[flagged]
- EdSharkey 3y agoOne thing metformin does is occasionally encourage cells to burn excess energy rather than store it. This may lead to extra cellular repair processes. I heard cancer rates were lower in metformin users and could extend life. Had my doc prescribe it to me 5 or so years ago. I take it daily. There were mild GI side effects and weight loss at first, but my body adjusted and now it is BAU. Haven't changed my lifestyle, can't know if it has made me more healthful. I still get colds and flu maybe once every other year. Had a vaccine injury scare after the second jab. My health has been down since, can't know if Metformin is helping or hurting that situation - hopefully in the background helping me heal.
- GordonS 3y agoCan I ask what dose you take, and also whether it has caused any issues with hypoglycemia?
- EdSharkey 3y ago500mg twice daily, but I usually forget in the morning and take 1000mg before bed. At least for my body, the troubled GI side effects faded over time. I never noticed any lightheadedness or fatigue by it unless I overdosed. But as I mentioned, I never changed my lifestyle and eat America-sized portions, so I suspect there's plenty of sugars and energy sloshing about and all systems have power.
- steeleyespan 3y agoWould these treatments work for other long-term viral illnesses? I know Covid is getting the attention, but many have had long-term health effects from mono, influenza, and other viral illnesses. I was extremely sick for over a year and believe I may have had a severe Vitamin D deficiency at the time (it only got better once I finally crawled out of the house).
- thenerdhead 3y agoPossible. > It has to be noted that metformin has pleitropic effects that have shown up with a number of diseases. That simultaneously gives you some belief that the drug really could be working here too, while making the actual mechanism hard to pick out. https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/long-covid-shows-card https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/long-covid-shows-c...
- peteradio 3y agoDo we have any studies that show those with diabetes have higher incidence of long-covid?
- pfdietz 3y agoI'm on 1000 mg metformin a day, so this is heartening news.
- stefantalpalaru 3y ago[dead]
- collyw 3y ago[flagged]
- terminatornet 3y agohttps://vinayprasadmdmph.substack.com/p/forest-fires-and-n95-masking?sd=pf https://vinayprasadmdmph.substack.com/p/forest-fires-and-n95... Vinay Prasad said I shouldn't bother putting on a mask when the east coast of the US was blanketed in wildfire smoke. > First, recognize that some baseline exposure will happen no matter what. Even in your house, you still can smell smoked salmon. The baseline exposure may dwarf any portion remotely modifiable. I guess none of us should wear masks because you can smell cooking salmon in your house?? Seems like this guy is not that trustworthy
- collyw 3y agoWhy would you expect an unsealed mask to make a difference? They are a splash guard, not an air filter. Also, he references a study, that appears to be well done. Attacking the messenger is a very weak form of argument.
- jonnycomputer 3y agoI do wonder about treatment of people who already have long covid. I don't know if long covid is just lingering damage, or is the result of continuing low-level infection
- p-o 3y ago[Deleted]
- DiabloD3 3y agoStill, ridiculously interesting.
- ceedan 3y agoBoth points are not true. Participants section of the paper > We excluded people who were already taking one of the study medications or who had already received a COVID-19 treatment with Emergency Use Authorization by the US Food and Drug Administration. Baseline characteristics table, Medical history section > Only 17 (1.5%) of the participants had diabetes.
- peteradio 3y agoHow many had pre-diabetes? Type-2 is a pretty serious diagnosis above a pretty significant threshold. Long-covid as defined can be somewhat marginal in characteristic.
- ceedan 3y agoThe paper doesn't say, but I would imagine it was very high. Googling the statistic says 1/3 of Americans have pre-diabetes.
- peteradio 3y agoSo I guess what I'm wondering is, how do we know we are treating lingering covid rather than pre-diabetes symptoms? Pre-diabetes is not symptomless and metformin is prescribed off-label to manage those symptoms. How many pre-diabetes symptoms overlap with long-covid classification?
- ceedan 3y ago> The primary method for ascertaining long COVID was participant-reported receipt of a long COVID diagnosis from a medical provider. Participants were asked whether a medical provider had given them a diagnosis of long COVID in follow-up surveys on days 180, 210, 240, 270, and 300. See the outcomes section. Also, read the paper.
- subsubzero 3y agoI had long covid back in early 2022. It was not fun, despite being fully vaccinated and being extremely fit(run 20+ miles a week etc). It took me 3 months to shake the symptoms and I tried everything. Vitamin B IV injection(helped a little with splitting headaches I constantly had a month after covid). Vitamin D 5000iu daily, Fish Oil supplements, Zinc(had to stop from stomach issues), even tried MSM with Tumeric. I felt like alot of them did not make that much of a difference, taking NUUN(a electrolyte supplement seemed to work in fighting the fatigue and headaches). Glad there is something out there that finally works well.
- psychphysic 3y agoI don't think 3 months to recover from COVID is considered long COVID. 12 weeks to recover from a viral illness, is unfortunately not special. I believe most definitions are 12weeks+ WHO definition is 3 months from onset with symptoms for at least 2 months (so there could be a brief recover period after which symptoms return). If it took you "3 months to shake the symptoms" you wouldn't meet WHO criteria.
- subsubzero 3y agoso I contracted covid jan. 1st 2022, and was having symptoms in april of that year, I actually was admitted to the scripps long covid clinic, so I guess it was a bit longer than 3 months, memory was a bit fuzzy during that time. The Dr. who I saw at the clinic said on the scale of long covid symptoms mine were on the milder side, I couldn't imagine what moderate or severe would be like. Equally frustrating was the lack of tests that could detect it. The Dr. readily admitted this issue and said it made people who were suffering sometimes feel like imposters due to tests showing anything concrete.
- WirelessGigabit 3y agoI wonder what the impact of this is on tinnitus.
- btlr 3y agoAre you implying that metformin could be a tinnitus treatment?
- WirelessGigabit 3y agoNot directly, but COVID can cause tinnitus. I'm not sure if tinnitus is a form of long COVID, but I remain hopeful that my tinnitus can be fixed.