4 ms·

Good. Hopefully they cannot recover it. Increases the risk of using Russian airspace.

JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> Increases the risk of using Russian airspace Air India has always had a YOLO attitude to air traffic control. I'm somewhat surprised America doesn't restrict inbound and outbound flights from overflying Russia.
- dmitrygr 3y ago
  > I'm somewhat surprised America doesn't restrict inbound and outbound flights from overflying Russia. That would make a lot of non-stops not viable. Russia is gigantic.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > would make a lot of non-stops not viable Between America and whom? The only places I'm imagining going nonviable are Central Asia. (China Airlines' New York <> Taipei is a 16-hour flight and doesn't overfly Russia.)
    - FpUser 3y ago
      [flagged]
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      Air Canada used to have some direct flights Toronto<->Mumbai that are now unviable because of the russian airspace restrictions. So it now stops over in London under 5th freedom rights to refuel/load/unload passengers and continue. This London<->Mumbai leg is one of the few unusual routes that Air Canada flies that doesn't start or stop in Canada. (It probably could be viable direct with limited passengers/cargo, but financially unviable). https://onemileatatime.com/news/air-canada-london-mumbai-flight/ https://onemileatatime.com/news/air-canada-london-mumbai-fli... But if you fly this route on Air India, it's still non-stop, utilizing Russian airspace: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AIC188/history/20230610/1625Z/CYYZ/VIDP https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AIC188/history/20230610/...
    - Scoundreller 3y ago
      Looks like United Airlines used to have an SFO-Delhi flight, last ran 15 months ago... UA867: https://www.flightera.net/en/flight/United+Airlines-San+Francisco-Delhi/UA867 https://www.flightera.net/en/flight/United+Airlines-San+Fran... It would need quite a diversion to avoid russian airspace: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sfo-del http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sfo-del Newark-Mumbai by United also cancelled: https://www.indianeagle.com/travelbeats/united-airlines-suspends-flights-india https://www.indianeagle.com/travelbeats/united-airlines-susp...
      - zokier 3y ago
        > It would need quite a diversion to avoid russian airspace: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sfo-del http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sfo-del sfo-cts-del is 9.9% longer according to that website, that doesn't seem that much especially if its just cruising.
        Scoundreller 3y ago
        They were flying 787-9s, which per Wikipedia have a 7630 nautical mile range, longest of any 787 variant. Direct its 6700 nautical miles but with that routing it’s 7360. http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sfo-Cts-del&MS=wls&DU=nm http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sfo-Cts-del&MS=wls&DU=nm https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner Add some winds, takeoffs/landings in the “wrong direction”, weather diversions and it probably needs a tech stop in at least one direction to do that routing. Maybe both. 777-200LR could do it easily, but United doesn’t operate any, and few others do https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_777_orders_and_deliveries https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_777_orders_an... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777
        zokier 3y ago
        > 777-200LR could do it easily, but United doesn’t operate any, and few others do Well, of course the Air India plane where this discussion started was one of those 777s
- actuator 3y ago
  > Air India has always had a YOLO attitude to air traffic control. What do you mean by this? Do you have some examples in mind. Also, the airline is a different entity now from a few years back. > I'm somewhat surprised America doesn't restrict inbound and outbound flights from overflying Russia. I am sure they would have but this might have been a concession few governments might have secured to keep flights economically viable.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Do you have some examples in mind AI 121 came to mind [1]. I've also been on domestic Air India flights where e.g. the plane never bothered leveling off. We just flew from Bombay to Delhi at a 30-degree angle. [1] https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2323889-air-india-flight-121 https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2323889-air-india-flight-121
    - govg 3y ago
      If you actually did do that, you probably ended up 500km in the atmosphere. I'm all for criticising the Indian carrier but stuff like "it never levelled off" makes no sense given the scale of airline operations in India.
    - anaganisk 3y ago
      I believe you, how was it flying by ISS? Did you wave hands at the astronauts?
    - unmole 3y ago
      > AI 121 came to mind You mean a misunderstanding arising from a glitch in the app? https://twitter.com/QuebecTango/status/1496835604503576582 https://twitter.com/QuebecTango/status/1496835604503576582 > We just flew from Bombay to Delhi at a 30-degree angle. I didn't realise Avatar was commercially operational already. Someone should update the Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(spacecraft) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(spacecraft) Air India has plenty of real issues worth criticising. There's no need to make up plainly nonsensical stuff.
- joezydeco 3y ago
  The path of the original flight was interesting. They avoided flying over China, but Russia was OK.
  - ronsor 3y ago
    Russia and China combined are most of Asia - you can't practically avoid flying over both.
  - zokier 3y ago
    The original path was pretty close to great circle path. Its just map projection that makes it confusing
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    > They avoided flying over China Sometimes it's easier/cheaper to avoid a country's airspace through a slight diversion than pay the overfly costs. Some country's ATC's can be kinda hostile/annoying/unprofessional/expensive. (I've heard China likes surprise military airspace restrictions that make flight planning annoying). Plenty of routes that don't take shortest path for geo-political & artificial cost reasons (but you don't hear climate change activists raising issues with that much).
  - manfromearth 3y ago
    They were avoiding the Tibetian plateau not China. The plateau is about 4000 m above sea level, 2,500,000 sq kms and does not have many airports. This makes it very risky for civilian aircrafts and almost everyone avoids it. Additionally, if you are starting from New Delhi, you have to fly over the Himalayas which is even riskier.
    - zirgs 3y ago
      If you fly to Japan from Finland then you have to fly over the North Pole, because the Russian airspace is closed. Seems to be a lot more dangerous than the Himalayas.
unmole 3y ago
It was successfully recovered and was flown back to Mumbai. Must be so disappointing for you.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

> Increases the risk of using Russian airspace Air India has always had a YOLO attitude to air traffic control. I'm somewhat surprised America doesn't restrict inbound and outbound flights from overflying Russia.

dmitrygr 3y ago
> I'm somewhat surprised America doesn't restrict inbound and outbound flights from overflying Russia. That would make a lot of non-stops not viable. Russia is gigantic.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > would make a lot of non-stops not viable Between America and whom? The only places I'm imagining going nonviable are Central Asia. (China Airlines' New York <> Taipei is a 16-hour flight and doesn't overfly Russia.)
  - FpUser 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    Air Canada used to have some direct flights Toronto<->Mumbai that are now unviable because of the russian airspace restrictions. So it now stops over in London under 5th freedom rights to refuel/load/unload passengers and continue. This London<->Mumbai leg is one of the few unusual routes that Air Canada flies that doesn't start or stop in Canada. (It probably could be viable direct with limited passengers/cargo, but financially unviable). https://onemileatatime.com/news/air-canada-london-mumbai-flight/ https://onemileatatime.com/news/air-canada-london-mumbai-fli... But if you fly this route on Air India, it's still non-stop, utilizing Russian airspace: https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AIC188/history/20230610/1625Z/CYYZ/VIDP https://flightaware.com/live/flight/AIC188/history/20230610/...
  - Scoundreller 3y ago
    Looks like United Airlines used to have an SFO-Delhi flight, last ran 15 months ago... UA867: https://www.flightera.net/en/flight/United+Airlines-San+Francisco-Delhi/UA867 https://www.flightera.net/en/flight/United+Airlines-San+Fran... It would need quite a diversion to avoid russian airspace: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sfo-del http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sfo-del Newark-Mumbai by United also cancelled: https://www.indianeagle.com/travelbeats/united-airlines-suspends-flights-india https://www.indianeagle.com/travelbeats/united-airlines-susp...
    - zokier 3y ago
      > It would need quite a diversion to avoid russian airspace: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sfo-del http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sfo-del sfo-cts-del is 9.9% longer according to that website, that doesn't seem that much especially if its just cruising.
      - Scoundreller 3y ago
        They were flying 787-9s, which per Wikipedia have a 7630 nautical mile range, longest of any 787 variant. Direct its 6700 nautical miles but with that routing it’s 7360. http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sfo-Cts-del&MS=wls&DU=nm http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=sfo-Cts-del&MS=wls&DU=nm https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_787_Dreamliner Add some winds, takeoffs/landings in the “wrong direction”, weather diversions and it probably needs a tech stop in at least one direction to do that routing. Maybe both. 777-200LR could do it easily, but United doesn’t operate any, and few others do https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_777_orders_and_deliveries https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boeing_777_orders_an... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777
        zokier 3y ago
        > 777-200LR could do it easily, but United doesn’t operate any, and few others do Well, of course the Air India plane where this discussion started was one of those 777s
actuator 3y ago
> Air India has always had a YOLO attitude to air traffic control. What do you mean by this? Do you have some examples in mind. Also, the airline is a different entity now from a few years back. > I'm somewhat surprised America doesn't restrict inbound and outbound flights from overflying Russia. I am sure they would have but this might have been a concession few governments might have secured to keep flights economically viable.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Do you have some examples in mind AI 121 came to mind [1]. I've also been on domestic Air India flights where e.g. the plane never bothered leveling off. We just flew from Bombay to Delhi at a 30-degree angle. [1] https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2323889-air-india-flight-121 https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/2323889-air-india-flight-121
  - govg 3y ago
    If you actually did do that, you probably ended up 500km in the atmosphere. I'm all for criticising the Indian carrier but stuff like "it never levelled off" makes no sense given the scale of airline operations in India.
  - anaganisk 3y ago
    I believe you, how was it flying by ISS? Did you wave hands at the astronauts?
  - unmole 3y ago
    > AI 121 came to mind You mean a misunderstanding arising from a glitch in the app? https://twitter.com/QuebecTango/status/1496835604503576582 https://twitter.com/QuebecTango/status/1496835604503576582 > We just flew from Bombay to Delhi at a 30-degree angle. I didn't realise Avatar was commercially operational already. Someone should update the Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(spacecraft) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_(spacecraft) Air India has plenty of real issues worth criticising. There's no need to make up plainly nonsensical stuff.
joezydeco 3y ago
The path of the original flight was interesting. They avoided flying over China, but Russia was OK.
- ronsor 3y ago
  Russia and China combined are most of Asia - you can't practically avoid flying over both.
- zokier 3y ago
  The original path was pretty close to great circle path. Its just map projection that makes it confusing
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  > They avoided flying over China Sometimes it's easier/cheaper to avoid a country's airspace through a slight diversion than pay the overfly costs. Some country's ATC's can be kinda hostile/annoying/unprofessional/expensive. (I've heard China likes surprise military airspace restrictions that make flight planning annoying). Plenty of routes that don't take shortest path for geo-political & artificial cost reasons (but you don't hear climate change activists raising issues with that much).
- manfromearth 3y ago
  They were avoiding the Tibetian plateau not China. The plateau is about 4000 m above sea level, 2,500,000 sq kms and does not have many airports. This makes it very risky for civilian aircrafts and almost everyone avoids it. Additionally, if you are starting from New Delhi, you have to fly over the Himalayas which is even riskier.
  - zirgs 3y ago
    If you fly to Japan from Finland then you have to fly over the North Pole, because the Russian airspace is closed. Seems to be a lot more dangerous than the Himalayas.

unmole 3y ago

It was successfully recovered and was flown back to Mumbai. Must be so disappointing for you.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]