4 ms·

For other people in developing countries: Isn't it weird to see news about a massive outrage for practices that in our place are totally common? Where I'm from

For other people in developing countries: Isn't it weird to see news about a massive outrage for practices that in our place are totally common? Where I'm from, this happens all the time. And the law permits them to just change the price at whim. So they can just raise the price of any product and slap a "discount" label on them, even if the new "discounted" price is higher than the previous one.

willcipriano 3y ago
[flagged]
- Filligree 3y ago
  As is the outrage and occasional lawsuits. The price of liberty is constant vigilance, but so is the price of a high-trust society. ...even though the whole point of one is that most people don't need it.
  - CapstanRoller 3y ago
    >The price of liberty is constant vigilance Whose liberty, and for whom?
- imiric 3y ago
  TIL Australia is a developing country. This xenophobic mindset is just not true. Similar and worse things happen in "developed" countries all the time as well, except at a different scale and potentially much worse consequences (e.g. 2008). The rule of law doesn't apply equally to everyone, and some people can skirt around it, or be above it.
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    Australia has fair dealing and rule of law. From a quick Google here is a list of some of the consumer protections afforded by their consumer protection organization: https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-servic... Economies that lack those types of protections haven't developed as quickly or as to the same level of economies that have them. This is true globally and throughout history. What a first world country is from Wikipedia: > the definition has instead largely shifted to any country with little political risk and a well-functioning democracy, rule of law, capitalist economy, economic stability, and high standard of living. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World Perhaps reach for a book instead of pulling out the tired xenophobia canard.
    - imiric 3y ago
      Why reach for a book when you can teach me a lesson right here? :) My point is that these sales tactics happen in any country, regardless if it's developing or not. The difference is in the variety and scale. If businesses aren't allowed by law to do a certain thing in order to increase revenue, they will resort to other scams that the law doesn't explicitly forbid. Or they will lobby to change the laws to whatever suits them best. The scams in developed countries are much more sophisticated and nefarious, simply because they need to tip toe around the law. In this case Dell messed up by doing this in Australia, but this is surely just the tip of the iceberg of their business practices.
    - practice9 3y ago
      > consumer protections afforded by their consumer protection organization That is actually true of many so called "developing" countries too. The consumer protection organizations will accept your request and "investigate". The result of their investigation can amount to doing nothing (canned response) or recommending you go to court. You can win in the court, eventually. Spending time & money on what should be an automatic process. > What the ACCC does > We educate businesses and consumers about their rights and obligations under the consumer guarantees. > If a business misleads consumers about their consumer guarantee rights, we can investigate. We may take some form of compliance or enforcement action. > What the ACCC can't do > We don’t provide legal advice about what consumers are entitled to. > We don't provide legal advice on what businesses need to do in a particular situation. > We don’t resolve individual disputes about whether the consumer guarantees have been met or the remedy. This is the beauty of bureaucracy in "developed" countries - they may or may not help you. And you will not know how effective they are until you actually need help. Kafkaesque rules and the multitude of agencies could be masking the potemkin village underneath. I've heard some good things about the customer protection in the EU, but I don't think it's even generalizable over all of the EU member states.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        Here is the property rights index: https://www.internationalpropertyrightsindex.org/ https://www.internationalpropertyrightsindex.org/ Scroll to the list, sort by highest score. Why are all the first world nations at the top? Here is the corruption perceptions index (pdf): https://images.transparencycdn.org/images/Report_CPI2022_English.pdf https://images.transparencycdn.org/images/Report_CPI2022_Eng... Why are the most corrupt nations considered third world?
- USB5 3y ago
  [flagged]
- allarm 3y ago
  This is very common in Singapore for example. Basically everything is "on sale" all the time. So it's not about developing countries.
  - npteljes 3y ago
    From the Wiki, Singapore declared themselves as a developing country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country#By_self_declaration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country#By_self_dec...
- lozenge 3y ago
  Yeah, like how the US is so developed, you can get anything from a surgery to a cable plan at the advertised priced. Hang on, my hotel is calling me. Something about a resort fee...
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    First world problems Today I learned how to get left wing people to argue that regulation isn't necessary for a strong economy.
    - Dylan16807 3y ago
      > First world problems ...yes? If you say something doesn't happen in the first world, then the only possible counterargument is someone citing a "first world problem". If "first world problems" aren't a valid example, then that would mean your claim is immune to evidence. Which would make it a useless claim. > Today I learned how to get left wing people to argue that regulation isn't necessary for a strong economy. Nobody said that.
      - willcipriano 3y ago
        Here's what a third world problem looks like, you don't have power because someone cut down the power poles in your neighborhood to use as firewood, so you walk to the market to buy some cooking oil but the "vegetable oil" ends up making your kids sick because it isn't vegetable oil but instead oil from inside the transformer that used to be on those power poles. You complain but the mayor's brother owns the shop and threatens you, maybe he decides to bulldoze your house on a whim. You have no recourse for any of this. While no where is perfect, that behavior is the exception instead of the rule in first world nations. As such consumers feel confident in spending money and that trust is seen in the economic results. People come from the world over to join these first world economies and invest in them, fleeing places without economic justice and rule of law.
        Dylan16807 3y ago
petemir 3y ago
Funny thing in Argentina. With current inflation numbers, usually discounts mean just keeping last week’s prices.
slim 3y ago
In Tunisia, North Africa we have laws against that. It works even in third world, because those bad practices do not benefit the business, they really need to get rid of inventory sometimes and they need to do it in a safe trusted way.

willcipriano 3y ago

[flagged]

Filligree 3y ago
As is the outrage and occasional lawsuits. The price of liberty is constant vigilance, but so is the price of a high-trust society. ...even though the whole point of one is that most people don't need it.
- CapstanRoller 3y ago
  >The price of liberty is constant vigilance Whose liberty, and for whom?
imiric 3y ago
TIL Australia is a developing country. This xenophobic mindset is just not true. Similar and worse things happen in "developed" countries all the time as well, except at a different scale and potentially much worse consequences (e.g. 2008). The rule of law doesn't apply equally to everyone, and some people can skirt around it, or be above it.
- willcipriano 3y ago
  Australia has fair dealing and rule of law. From a quick Google here is a list of some of the consumer protections afforded by their consumer protection organization: https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-services/consumer-rights-and-guarantees https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/buying-products-and-servic... Economies that lack those types of protections haven't developed as quickly or as to the same level of economies that have them. This is true globally and throughout history. What a first world country is from Wikipedia: > the definition has instead largely shifted to any country with little political risk and a well-functioning democracy, rule of law, capitalist economy, economic stability, and high standard of living. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World Perhaps reach for a book instead of pulling out the tired xenophobia canard.
  - imiric 3y ago
    Why reach for a book when you can teach me a lesson right here? :) My point is that these sales tactics happen in any country, regardless if it's developing or not. The difference is in the variety and scale. If businesses aren't allowed by law to do a certain thing in order to increase revenue, they will resort to other scams that the law doesn't explicitly forbid. Or they will lobby to change the laws to whatever suits them best. The scams in developed countries are much more sophisticated and nefarious, simply because they need to tip toe around the law. In this case Dell messed up by doing this in Australia, but this is surely just the tip of the iceberg of their business practices.
  - practice9 3y ago
    > consumer protections afforded by their consumer protection organization That is actually true of many so called "developing" countries too. The consumer protection organizations will accept your request and "investigate". The result of their investigation can amount to doing nothing (canned response) or recommending you go to court. You can win in the court, eventually. Spending time & money on what should be an automatic process. > What the ACCC does > We educate businesses and consumers about their rights and obligations under the consumer guarantees. > If a business misleads consumers about their consumer guarantee rights, we can investigate. We may take some form of compliance or enforcement action. > What the ACCC can't do > We don’t provide legal advice about what consumers are entitled to. > We don't provide legal advice on what businesses need to do in a particular situation. > We don’t resolve individual disputes about whether the consumer guarantees have been met or the remedy. This is the beauty of bureaucracy in "developed" countries - they may or may not help you. And you will not know how effective they are until you actually need help. Kafkaesque rules and the multitude of agencies could be masking the potemkin village underneath. I've heard some good things about the customer protection in the EU, but I don't think it's even generalizable over all of the EU member states.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      Here is the property rights index: https://www.internationalpropertyrightsindex.org/ https://www.internationalpropertyrightsindex.org/ Scroll to the list, sort by highest score. Why are all the first world nations at the top? Here is the corruption perceptions index (pdf): https://images.transparencycdn.org/images/Report_CPI2022_English.pdf https://images.transparencycdn.org/images/Report_CPI2022_Eng... Why are the most corrupt nations considered third world?
USB5 3y ago
[flagged]
allarm 3y ago
This is very common in Singapore for example. Basically everything is "on sale" all the time. So it's not about developing countries.
- npteljes 3y ago
  From the Wiki, Singapore declared themselves as a developing country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country#By_self_declaration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developing_country#By_self_dec...
lozenge 3y ago
Yeah, like how the US is so developed, you can get anything from a surgery to a cable plan at the advertised priced. Hang on, my hotel is calling me. Something about a resort fee...
- willcipriano 3y ago
  First world problems Today I learned how to get left wing people to argue that regulation isn't necessary for a strong economy.
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    > First world problems ...yes? If you say something doesn't happen in the first world, then the only possible counterargument is someone citing a "first world problem". If "first world problems" aren't a valid example, then that would mean your claim is immune to evidence. Which would make it a useless claim. > Today I learned how to get left wing people to argue that regulation isn't necessary for a strong economy. Nobody said that.
    - willcipriano 3y ago
      Here's what a third world problem looks like, you don't have power because someone cut down the power poles in your neighborhood to use as firewood, so you walk to the market to buy some cooking oil but the "vegetable oil" ends up making your kids sick because it isn't vegetable oil but instead oil from inside the transformer that used to be on those power poles. You complain but the mayor's brother owns the shop and threatens you, maybe he decides to bulldoze your house on a whim. You have no recourse for any of this. While no where is perfect, that behavior is the exception instead of the rule in first world nations. As such consumers feel confident in spending money and that trust is seen in the economic results. People come from the world over to join these first world economies and invest in them, fleeing places without economic justice and rule of law.
      - Dylan16807 3y ago

petemir 3y ago

Funny thing in Argentina. With current inflation numbers, usually discounts mean just keeping last week’s prices.

slim 3y ago

In Tunisia, North Africa we have laws against that. It works even in third world, because those bad practices do not benefit the business, they really need to get rid of inventory sometimes and they need to do it in a safe trusted way.