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Am I missing something or is the only thing that makes this different than so many other "insider" claims is that this guy has a career history that implies he
by thekevan 3y ago
Am I missing something or is the only thing that makes this different than so many other "insider" claims is that this guy has a career history that implies he isn't just another crackpot spewing theories?
It reads just like so many claims like we have heard in the past, but this time people think the guy is more reliable.
It is pretty funny that the one of the people often quoted who backs up Grusch's claims is Jonathan Grey. (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2241801/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2241801/)
I'd love to think that alien contact is possible, but as I attempt to learn more and more about physics, travel approaching the speed of light, the mechanics that transformed us from a basic life form to a life form with a consciousness, it just seem incredibly unlikely sadly.
- hderms 3y agoI personally believe FTL is likely impossible so I think the only realistic hypothesis is if we encounter aliens, that they're von Neumann drones on the vanguard edge of a colonization wave from an alien race that's been doing it for millions of years. If we survive for long enough as a species, either we'll meet races in this manner or we'll be the ones doing it. For the record I still only assign a fairly low probability that this is what is happening, it's more likely that UAPs are craft from terrestrial origin.
- erdos4d 3y agoThere is the fact that Grusch gave sworn testimony to congress on it, he's going to prison for perjury if he's lying. Doesn't prove it, but it's more than just saying it in an interview.
- krapp 3y agoPeople lie to Congress all the time without any consequences. That depends more on the political necessity of having a scapegoat/figure to tar and feather than the actual law.
- mostlysimilar 3y ago> People lie to Congress all the time without any consequences. Examples?
- anon223345 3y agoMark McGwire
- jjoonathan 3y ago"does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?" "No, sir." "It does not?" "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps collect, but not wittingly." So, do people lie to Congress all the time? Not wittingly, but in the sense that this phrase means "absolutely yes, all the damn time."
- toomuchtodo 3y agoCitations: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/07/02/198118060/clapper-apologizes-for-answer-on-nsas-data-collection https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/07/02/198118060... https://youtu.be/QwiUVUJmGjs https://youtu.be/QwiUVUJmGjs https://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/verizon-telephone-data-court-order https://www.theguardian.com/world/interactive/2013/jun/06/ve...
- amanaplanacanal 3y agoDoes anybody ever go to jail for lying to congress?
- kadoban 3y agohttps://www.propublica.org/article/five-trump-cabinet-members-made-false-statements-to-congress https://www.propublica.org/article/five-trump-cabinet-member... There's many, many more.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
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- clint 3y agoHe also could just be mentally ill and doesn't believe he's lying. It doesn't mean what he's saying is true.
- troyvit 3y agoMan I don't think he's mentally ill now, but before this is done I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes so. Can't imagine that guy's life right now.
- Simon_O_Rourke 3y agoI'm no body language expert, but I did notice him shaking his head when he says something to the (opposite) effect that "we categorically have non human craft". Games within games. Insiders playing credible dupes.
- throwanem 3y ago> this guy has a career history that implies he isn't just another crackpot spewing theories I love the optimism in assuming that being a crackpot and having a career in intelligence are incompatible!
- thekevan 3y agoThe part that you quoted was me summarizing what I thought they were saying and kind of asking if that was what they were saying. I've never met the guy. And by the way, yes, I do think crackpottery is an equal opportunity condition.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 3y agoHe could have been driven to crackpottery also. Consider this hypothetical: A person in intelligence knows something you would rather didn't get out, but you suspect there's a chance they will leak it. Maybe they have a personality that leads you to believe they can't in good conscience keep that secret, or maybe you're just callous and paranoid, doesn't really make a difference. One thing you could do is convince them of something completely ridiculous that no one will take seriously. Even easier if there is a large existing community of nutters that already believe that (possibly you manufactured that too, just for such an occasion). Put on some little shows, make sure they see some documents they "weren't supposed to", and when they've bought into it enough have someone all but confirm it to them in person. Then, if they're in a leaking mood, they'll discredit themselves for you.
- hermitcrab 3y agoWhich is more likely? a) An alien civilization has overcome the massive problems of interstellar travel and is visiting us right now. or b) The people making these claims are wrong. While a) isn't impossible, b) seems so much more likely. Also if they have the technology to cross interstellar space, surely they have the technology not to be detected by us?
- postalrat 3y agoc) An alien civilization can trivial visit Earth and has been for thousands of years. You make a lot of assumptions how difficult it wouldv be to visit and even why they would be here.
- hermitcrab 3y agoI assume that interstellar travel is really difficult for any civilization. That assumption is based on my knowledge of physics (relativity in particular).
- cronix 3y ago> That assumption is based on my knowledge of physics based on your knowledge of known physics. We're still adding to the periodic table...
- krapp 3y ago>We're still adding to the periodic table... That doesn't violate known physics in any way.
- cronix 3y agoVery true, but the point is it just shows there's a lot we don't know still that an advanced civilization might and likely have already discovered and learned to harness/control.
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- oldstrangers 3y ago"the mechanics that transformed us from a basic life form to a life form with a consciousness" If those mechanics are known I'd love to hear them.
- thekevan 3y agoThat's me you quoted and I'd love to hear them, too. That is part of the point.
- hyperion2010 3y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution ?
- oldstrangers 3y agoctrl-f that page for 'consciousness' and report back.
- glenstein 3y agoNot a wiki article, but From Bacteria to Bach and Back is more or less about this very subject.
- oldstrangers 3y agoA philosopher's perspective but still interesting nonetheless.
- sibeliuss 3y ago> but as I attempt to learn more and more about physics, travel approaching the speed of light, the mechanics that transformed us from a basic life form to a life form with a consciousness, it just seem incredibly unlikely sadly As if humanity's knowledge circa 2023 is the end-all of things!
- nprateem 3y agoThis arrogance underpins so many comments on here. We don't know whether some breakthrough is possible that makes interstellar travel viable using hitherto unknown physics.
- thekevan 3y agoCan you explain what seems arrogant?
- colordrops 3y agoFor real there should be a name for this sort of categorical error in thinking.
- nprateem 3y agoYeah like open minded or something.
- colordrops 3y agoSure they aren't open minded, but I mean thinking that our current state of knowledge defines the limits of what is possible, which is more specific than just closed-minded. It's crazy how often people make this mistake.
- thekevan 3y agoIt isn't close minded at all. I would LOVE to have my thinking changed. After listing to people who research this area like Martin Rees, Sabine Hossenfelder, Matt O'Dowd of PBS Spacetime, it just seems unlikely to me that the logistics of such travel--especially in a small craft that would just carry several beings--seems like it is just too hard to do and will remain so difficult for many, many generations to come.
- blazespin 3y agoIt's so hilarious: "This can't be true, people would have exposed it, there's no way they could cover this up!" ... "It reads just like so many claims like we have heard in the past" I mean.... come on people, try harder. One simple explanation is that Grusch's story is mostly true. eg: There is a secret project, they have been doing reverse engineering, and they did keep it from congress for a very long time. This is all the stuff that Grusch can probably prove himself without second hand reporting.
- op00to 3y agoIf he COULD prove it, he would have. He did not.
- JKCalhoun 3y agoIf their ship that came here and crashed ... I guess I'm not too worried about them.
- twobitshifter 3y agoCould have been intentional and likely unmanned
- misja111 3y agoSure, they sent a spaceship that had to travel many lightyears to reach us, then intentionally let it crash.
- StanislavPetrov 3y agoOr maybe they sent out billions of self-replicating probes that have no value except in the data they transmit, so they don't care if they crash.
- twobitshifter 3y agoIt may have not been sent to reach us, they might not know there is an us. When was the probe launched? Did humans even have fire at that time?
- double0jimb0 3y agoI’ve not taken a side yet, but to answer your first question, the original journalism outlet that published his story is The Debrief (who are pretty widely respected in the defense world), and they documented the source checking they did on Grusch: https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founder-and-investigator-tim-mcmillan-part-1/ https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founde...
- gremlinsinc 3y agoeven if he and the sources all know a friend a work on these teams, it's still not enough evidence. im very skeptical at the same time, I'm not completely shut off to the idea, I mean I'd say 98 to 2 percent are the odds differential but that's up from like 0.00000001 percent previously, before all the ufo releases. I'm warming up, and I'm not naive enough to claim what a civilization a million years now advanced than us with bigger and more efficient brains(or ai) could accomplish in large enough time scales. This is definitely the just trustworthy source to date, perhaps, but still the evidence isn't enough to blindly just say, yes it's definitely aliens.
- colordrops 3y ago> I'd love to think that alien contact is possible, but as I attempt to learn more and more about physics, travel approaching the speed of light, the mechanics that transformed us from a basic life form to a life form with a consciousness, it just seem incredibly unlikely sadly. With all the absurdly crazy complexity that has arisen in our universe, and the tiny primate brain you were born with, and the mere 10k years of civilization in our multi-billion year old universe which may be one of a near infinitude stretching back for eternity, you've figured out with high likelihood what is and is not possible. Right.
- punkbit 3y agoDamn, that was deep!